HERE is an article saying that some in Britain think the media went too far with the rather grizzy pictures of Gadhafi being beaten and, maybe, depending on what caused his death, actually killed. Details don't seem to be concrete regarding how long he was dragged around, at what point he might have lost consciousness and then his life, etc., but whatever happened was violent and, I'd have thought, difficult to watch for most people. But, it's not so much the difficulty in watching that prompted me to write about this.Watching the coverage our television channels gave Gadhafi's death, I couldn't help thinking about whether we need, or want, to see a man scared out of his wits knowing he's about to die, his bleeding, his death........even a man who's been so violent himself, who's plotted and killed (including Lockerbie, let's not forget the probably he was involved there) and been a threat to so many.
Does a man always deserve some dignity? Should millions see his utter fear, his bloody body? Do we ever 'owe' even a monster like him his privacy at the time he's losing his life? By the way, Trestin mentioned at SilverFiddle's blog how it seems okay to have shown Gadhafi's body on television but it wasn't okay to show Osama's because Muslims might be offended. That's a fascinating point, too.
What do you think?
(There's no image of him here to go with the article because, tell you the truth, I could barely look at that man...ever)Z
91 comments:
...quite a "liberal" sentiment, I must say. :)
...a few days ago, i read a news story about Sarah Palin having changed her FB profile from "Republican" to "Conservative". The article, written by a "Liberal" pundit for sure, then went on to say, rather condescendingly, "Perhaps only Palin can tell us what's the difference."
And yet, until not very long ago, a "Republican" would have been considered a "liberal". Funny how things change and yet remain the same!
With all the wailing about the images of Ghadafi getting his, you'd think the rebels put panties on his head.
The raw video clips online are graphic and brutal. Sickening to watch (I've watched two and won't watch any more).
I wonder how many Gaddafi adherents are on the loose now and what weapons they have. The proximity of Europe makes it a target of any of these Gaddafi adherents.
I hope that I'm wrong, but I believe that we'll see Al Qaeda elected to office in Libya. Might that have been Obama's plan all along?
PS: Syria is next.
PS: Syria is next
No it isn't. We would just as soon keep the dictators in the Middle East. Yemen hangs on because he lets us launch drones whenever we like.
Bahrain executes and tortures doctors and nurses who treated the wounded from the demonstrations and President Peace prize tries to ship them millions in military "aid". Disgusting but where's the "left wing " media (LMAO) on this.
We can't get down on our knees often enough to the Egyptian military.
Syria gets a few stern warnings.
Why i Libya different, because it has NOTHING to do with the Middle East where we behave like israel and Saudi Arabia tell us to behave.
Qadaffi had dreams of a united Africa with himself as ruler. He was behind Taylor in Liberia and lots of other nasty stuff (but who cares, Pat Robertson was too.
So like the move to bring in drones against the Lords Resistance Army, Obama demonstrates that he just might care about Africa.
Plus, it may turn out that the Libyan uprising was started as a covert French operation.
Sic semper tyrannus.
Seeing as how images are just as easily faked as media reports, I see little benefit in providing graphic images over/along with news accounts, unless it resolves some rather ambiguous piece of narrative. And a completely narrative account of Qaddafy's death IS likely to leave the reader doubting... and so a picture does eliminate a certain degree of ambiguity.
As a result of these photo's and videos, few people doubt Qaddafy's death. And maybe THAT's a fact that will bring events in Libya more quickly to a close.
Z - I'm glad you wrote this post.
Without reading anyone else's opinion on this subject I've always known how I felt about it.
~~~
If someone acts like a vicious animal - hurts and destroys others lives - then that person needs to be put down.
And just that.
I don't think we need to act like vicious animals ourselves in doing it.
In other words, the pictures contribute to something greater than the morbid and/or "prurient" interest of the reader.
nicrap, "liberal"? wow
AOW, yes, Syria will be next.
Ducky, like we kept Saddam?
Sue, I don't even know how to describe how I feel about putting even a horrible man like this on tape as he dies.
Thersites...some things are private. Even with a 'man' like that.
..some things are private. Even with a 'man' like that.
Then why have "witnesses" at state executions?
Do you think that Osama bin Laden deserved "privacy" in his death?
Mussolini? Hitler?
Saddam Hussein?
There was a time when a criminal's head was placed upon a pike on London Bridge above Southwark Gatehouse.
Death as a spectacle! But, that was long ago... ;)
We live in an age of "spectacles". Perhaps we need to be forced to watch the one's written in truth and blood.
Enough commodity fetishism. Bring on the real spectacles instead of street theatre.
The Roman's brought it to the Colisseum in Blood & Sand... but even THAT reality in actual death was actually "staged".
Now no one dies or is hurt in our modern spectacles. But that doesn't mean that life will "necessarily" imitate art no matter how hard they might "wish" that no one actually "die" in a "revolution".
In REAL revolutions, people die. LOT's of them.
Revolution is no "theoretical" romantic notion (as the Communists dream). Those that want to "overthrow" Wall Street and create a new green Luddite un-inhabited world want to condemn hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people to death.
Images from Vietnam sparked a reaction that led to an end to that war. There was a truth in the images returning from the war zone that those who seek to evade the consequences of violent and/or revolutionary acts abhor. But then they begin to believe in myths of bloodless and nonviolent revolutions...
Qaddaffy's death was an act committed with Europe and America's help and BLESSINGS. We should be forced to view the results.
If we can't stomach the images resulting from our actions then we shouldn't aid and abet the results that come from them.
Thersites, I don't believe in having witnesses at an execution staring the dying person in the eyes.
I believe that there are legal reasons for witnesses and that they should watch from somewhere else.
Thanks for coming by, Sybil.
Do you really think Hitler didn't come to mind when I decided this is my stance so I needed a reminder? :-)
And, let me add that one picture of "the results" is not as objectionable as what we saw with Gadhafi.
Look, that's MY feeling...you're entitled to all of yours.
It is all a debasement of humanity, and as such, a debasement of each of us.
This is why justice properly ordered and properly carried out is so important.
It is also why there is no such thing as a humane war.
Humanity can be debased MORE than it already is? Whodathunkit!
I think that the images shown mankind as it actually is. Petty, vindictive and DEADLY VIOLENT.
"If someone acts like a vicious animal - hurts and destroys others lives..."
Hmmmmm....Maxine Waters, Barney Frank & Chris Dodd come to mind right now. Do they qualify?
Well z, Saddam broke the rules and got the Saudis all upset so we spent the money to put in a new group of stooges.
The photos of him and his sons after the got nabbed were pretty degrading. Comes with the territory.
Speedy G,
Qaddaffy's death was an act committed with Europe and America's help and BLESSINGS. We should be forced to view the results.
Let me be clear.
I do think that the mainstream media should show one of the clips of brutality.
Obama as a qualified Nobel Peace Prize winner? Hardly!
I think that the images shown mankind as it actually is. Petty, vindictive and DEADLY VIOLENT.
Adds credibility to the Biblical concept of .."all have sinned and fallen short"...and that we have a fallen nature.
Apollo frequently flays Marsyas without any witnesses to the crime. We need to be careful, lest all our Sibyls end up in an ampulla in Cumea.
As TS Eliot said, "We are the Hollow Men"... we so we shouldn't allow ourselves to remain virgins forever.
Showing people behaving like animals accomplishes nothing except as an example to others that "it could happen to you".
It's called barbarism.
Qaddafi's death could have been shown after he was killed.
Saddam Hussein was tried by his own people, found guilty, and executed. We didn't need to see him being hanged.
His sons were killed in a firefight. We didn't see them being shot, did we. The photos were shown afterwards to convince Iraqis they were dead.
I believe in the death penalty, but I don't believe in public executions. To my mind it's a step back, regressive, and a step closer to bloodlust, which is further removed from a civilized society.
I wonder how many children saw this on tv, and it wasn't necessary.
I agree with Z.
FH...you said "I think that the images shown mankind as it actually is. Petty, vindictive and DEADLY VIOLENT."
Then I'm very pleased my own personal humanity's apparently not reached that low!
By the way: :-)
Pris, I agree with everything you said, especially the part where you agree with ME (smile)
For some of you who needn't read the post again, I added something I saw that Blogger Trestin said at Silverfiddle's, and that's something like:
ISN'T IT INTERESTING THAT WE COULDN'T SHOW OSAMA'S BODY BECAUSE IT WOULD BE INSENSITIVE AND TICK MUSLIMS OFF BUT WITH MUSLIM GADHAFI IT DOESN'T SEEM TO MATTER?
Food for thought, for sure.
BY THE WAY..
Liz Trotta this morning on TV said something along the lines of my last comment, tho TOTALLY off subject:
Where is the outrage of the leftwingers and their media about the killing of those magnificent exotic animals in Ohio?
The Left gets SO outraged about the extinction of a tiny 'fish' that THRIVES in the Pacific Northwest, that they'll dry up the WHOLE California Central Valley (practically the bread capital of America) ... but there's no comment about the murder of bengal tigers and lions?
Ulterior hidden motive?
WOW :-)
AOW I believe you are right. The leader of this ragtag bunch is deep into Alqaeda if not totally Alqaeda totally. There are many Muslim Brotherhood representatives in the mix as well. Either way it goes it will not bode well for the ME , Israel or the US. But never fear, The"ONE" will take all the credit==until it goes wrong and then guess who gets the blame.
Duckbutt, You got one thing correct, Syria is not next but not for the reasons you gave. The reason Syria is not next is because of it's strong military and it's strong intelligence network, one of the best in the ME without a doubt.
Duckbutt, Egypt is gone the way of the Muslim Brotherhood but watch for turmoil as AlQadea tries to loosen the grip of the military and the MB. You will see another uprising in Egypt by years end NLT than spring of 2012. The signs are there already,
The Saudi's stay as they are. They almost fell into the abyss when they went against the US involvement in Iraq(2003) but fearing attack from more extremist inside Saudi Arabia King Abdullah soften his stance. He is a strong leader of a strong monarchy going back many years. He walk a fine line and knows how the game is played so no fall or uprising of any significance in SA.
The remaining babble about other countries is just that--babble. Not worth trying to educate you on.
Ther - Witnesses at a state execution do just that.
They do not interfere with the execution itself.
As when those overzealous men did just before Sadam was hanged.
I did not like that.
Speedy...I think you knew what I meant.
Ticker, you're right about it all, especially who gets the blame.
Sue, I still don't think someone being executed should watch the people watching them as they die, do you? They don't interfere? I think that's an unconscionable interference in the most private thing someone can do, at the most frightening time of most peoples's lives, no matter WHO they are.
Mussolina's execution and he and his wife being dragged through the streets to be hanged by their heels was widely shown in newsreels at every theater in the US. If we TV had been available in those days you can be assured that it would have been televised. It was for a purpose, to show the end results of those who choose to cause great pain, death and anguish to others.
IMO any one who does such be it against one or millions needs to publicly executed. We did it for years in this country until we allowed the LEFT to shame us for showing consequences of wrong doing. Now we slip some fluid into an IV tube and allow them to go to sleep with no fear, no anguish such as they forced upon their victims. Days of public hangings on the courthouse steps need to be broght back and have it televised as well, not as entertainment but to enforce the idea that there are consequences and make that plain as it plays on the air.
Consequence for wrong doing(death of another, etc) needs to be made plainly visible.
Ticker, you REALLY think knowing the moment you're going to die and having people staring at you who despise you and feeling the death go into your veins doesn't make someone afraid?
They showed Ciacescu on Romanian TV, remember? (I'd look his spelling up but I"m dashing to meet a friend for lunch)
I don't think there IS anyone as big as I am on actions reaping consequences but I still don't think any of this is an honorable idea. To anyone.
Well, I just wrote a lot more but deleted it here....
suffice it to say I disagree.
I prefer a society that doesn't lust over such moments. But of course I understand the natural desire to see a bad guy suffer. Not sure if it's the most mature option ultimately.
I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but we probably all respect guys who admire hot news anchor women over hardcore porn, even though both impulses are very logical.
I'll miss Carlos Santana.
Z said in the article, "whether we need, or want, to see a man scared out of his wits knowing he's about to die, his bleeding, his death.."
I don't like see anyone treated that way. It is not only degrading to the victim, but it does us no good, either. Hopefully, we have evolved socially to forego that type of entertainment.
However, the Arab world is not so advanced. That world is organized in tribes, and their mentality confirms it. It is part of their backwards culture to torture and drag victims through the streets, giving the general public a chance to get in a stone or two.
That's just the way they are, but I don't want to see it on my TV.
"ll respect guys who admire hot news anchor women ..."
Been sneaking a peek at FNC again, Net? LOL..
;-)
"Been sneaking a peek at FNC again, Net? LOL.."
Imp, that's funny; they're gorgeous, aren't they? But I have to admit, while I'm not a rabid feminist,I HATE the way FOX has the girls sitting up front on THE FIVE and RED EYE...skirt JUST above the knee, 6" stiletto heels...these women are SMART and I'm amazed they allow the cameramen to do this to them.... :-)
But, they ARE mostly GORGEOUS AND BRAINY!
TRESTIN! OH, MAN, I've been out most of this afternoon and thought you meant the real Carlos Santana had died!!
I Googled and found articles where people thought they looked alike...I don't.
I could never LOOK at Gadhafi; I found him one of THE most unpleasant looking men I have EVER seen!
I'm relieved ol' Carlos is still tokin' :-)
Z - First, I have never been put in a position to decide if there should be people watching someone be executed. But I get a funny feeling when I see people so anxious to see another person die.
Often I think that my final opinion or decision on something would come if I actually were making the final and ultimiate decision.
Then I would have to make the decision - and I would.
And I would have to live with that decision.
And I would.
~~~
But I don't believe I could watch someone being put to death feeling calm, calculated and satisfied myself.
However - although I don't wish for this - I believe that because I am a passionate person - I could shoot someone if they did something to another person that I felt very strongly about.
~~~
For example:
Before the Super Bowl this year I watched Bill O'Reilly interview President Obama and say such disrespectful, pushy and rude things to him that ever since I have wanted to literally kill Bill O'Reilly.
The President of the United States is entitled to have some relaxation and enjoyment at one time or another and that was totally inappropriate for the jerk to act and say the things he did.
I can't forget that..
~~~
Would I really shoot Bill O'Reilly given the chance - no, but that's how repulsed I felt.
But I might shoot a ruthless dictator to rid the world of him.
What are the chances of a midwestern housewife being given the chance to do that.
I would, however, like to do something.
The above commenter who mentioned Mussolini:
When I was in fourth grade and taking piano lessons I was waiting for my turn and saw a Life Magazine with a picture of Mussolini's mutilatled body hanging upside down.
That picture has always stayed with me. Of course I don't think about it all of the time - but it is one of those pictures that will always be right there - ready for me to remember from time to time.
Not a pleasant thing for a fourth grade girl who resided in a quiet small town to be exposed to.
But I was and I remember it well.
I saw a bit of the footage, can't say it bothered me. Can't say i'm surprised at his end, that's the way things work over there in the middle east and in much of the world.
I think it's good to show the west because far too many in the west think that the rest of the world is some sort of beautiful kumbaya world like it is back here, it couldn't be further from the truth.
None the less if anyone wants to complain, feel free to take it up with obama, france etc, it was him who leading from the ass and a Nato airstrike that brought all this. What did we expect, some sort of long-winded trial and appeals process before a life sentence in some cushy jail?
That's not the way muslims handle things, a corpse dragged through the streets and hauled up to a post for the crows to feed off, that's how they roll with their own kind. Imagine what they'd do to us if we ever stepped out of line.
Sue, I'd like to see that tape because O'Reilly is the only Conservative broadcaster Obama will talk to...interesting.
I'd never shoot to kill anybody who wasn't attacking a child of mine or one of my students, I think...or maybe nephews and nieces...
But, if I could, I'd shoot Piers Morgan for having said that Juan Williams' comments weren't as awful said at FOX as they were at NPR because racism is put up with at FOX. Ya, he did.
I'd shoot your hero Bill Maher, too, over his smug horrible remarks about Conservatives and Christians.....or for allowing people on his show to suggest Michelle Bachmann's husband ought to F*** her harder (and worse) because they hate her.
But, of course, I would never shoot anybody.......and probably never will; of that, I am quite certain!
nothing new
under the sun.
-sic semper tyrannis-
"sitting up front on THE FIVE and RED EYE...skirt JUST above the knee, 6" stiletto heels...these women are SMART and I'm amazed they allow the cameramen to do this to them.... :-)..."
Ummmm...Z....from a guys point of view? How the hell do you think they'd get any viewers at 3AM? Red is a funny , spoof and a gas. It's definitely irreverent and the girls know what the deal is. They've seen it before and no one forces the girls to wear burkas....or anything else. So...I've seen many very funny scenes where the guys were sincerely blown away by the dress choice that the women guests made.
It's 3AM.....who's offended?
Z & Imp,
That's modern-day TV for you. Looks matter -- ESPECIALLY with women -- and if they didn't the ladies on "The Five" would be instantly replaced by BRAINIER female conservatives who wouldn't be as open to showing off their calves.
I think Fox chooses talent based on that a little bit more than the others. But frankly, all the networks do it to some degree. My all-time favorite was Rudi Bakhtiar of CNN Headline News about ten or so years ago. She was ridiculous =)
It's like, how many newswomen have you seen wearing more than a "size 6" -- at BEST? How many have you seen sporting their gray hairs even when you KNOW they're pushing 50?
It's still a man's world, y'all.
I have to give irreverent comedians their space, Z.
"I'd never shoot to kill anybody who wasn't attacking a child of mine or one of my students..."
Hate to be the bearer of bad news Z...but in California now...you're not only legally forbidden to own a weapon for self defense...your 2nd amendment RIGHTS ( not a privilege ) DO NOT EXIST in California. You cannot get a permit to carry...You cannot get a permit to buy a weapon.
The shit head moonbeam just outlawed open carry.....without even considering making concealed carry an option.
Sorry to say...but this can only mean...you must submit, retreat or to face major jail time if you defend yourself with a S&W.
Apparently in California....fags ( sorry ) have more civil rights than you...or any average citizen in the Golden State.
Somehow...you've allowed an abrogation of your CONSTITUTIONAL rights...NOT a "Privilege" like a DL....to be taken from you...forever.
Your cops are there to place a chalk outline around you...AFTER you've been killed by a scumbag...that didn't give a shit about "legal" carry".
"I think Fox chooses talent based on that a little bit more than the others."
Great observation Net....but come on man....the women do have GREAT Brains. And are not...fluff. Not that I can tell.....however at 3AM....who's at their critical best?
Oh, I'm not putting them down, Imp.
But let's face it. Pundits are sharpest in their 40s, 50s and 60s. Not in their 30s.
Beckel is in his 60s. Andrea T is in her early 30s.
You will NEVER see a woman in her 60s or a man in his early 30s hosting that show lol
"Pundits are sharpest in their 40s, 50s and 60s."
Being in the latter category.....I'm relieved, Net. Thanks...LOL.
And my senses tell me.....you're in the 40's category. So you have plenty of time...to become..._________.
Z - If you ever tried to shoot Bill Maher and I was there I would take the bullet for him.
BTW, Z. Just to clear things up Bill is not my FRIEND since he doesn't know I exist.
And my husband will occasionally call someone my 'friend', you know, a celebrity that I may talk about - and I always remind him that the person is not my Friend.
:-)
If I did ever chance to meet Bill I hope he would want to call me a friend.
When I see the image of Gadhafi, I can only imagine what people Lybia is going to get in power: the same kind, the same cruel, vile leader.
As much as Gadhafi was a despicable, horrible piece of merde, killing a man when he's already injured, bleeding and not threatening anymore is not a good thing in my book.
But a monster got killed by other monsters. We're back to square one.
I can't find who commented on this - but speaking of someone knowing they were going to die...
I cut a little piece out of the paper a while back about an Italian who was going to be executed (it was a political thing) and somehow he was able to pull the black hood off and shouted:
'Now I'll show you how an Italian dies.'
Something I'd like to do if it came to that.
Kinda like Mel Gibson in the end of Braveheart when they wanted him to spill his guts(he literally did)
and he pretended he was going to then the guy leaned in closer and William Wallace shouted:
FREEDOM!
That was great.
Z - I believe that two people should be able to like each other in spite of a third person that one of the people doesn't like.
Know what I mean?
"if I could, I'd shoot Piers Morgan for having said that Juan Williams' comments weren't as awful said at FOX as they were at NPR because racism is put up with at FOX. Ya, he did.
I'd shoot your hero Bill Maher, too, over his smug horrible remarks about Conservatives and Christians.....or for allowing people on his show to suggest Michelle Bachmann's husband ought to F*** her harder (and worse) because they hate her.
But, of course, I would never shoot anybody.."
Be more than glad to do it for you and not blink an eye cause as they say back in the hills, "thar are sum that jus need akillin" Took care of a lot of scum in the hills for many years, then folks began to listen to the whiny azz liberals on TV and lost their nerve. Now the countryside is overrun with them folk. Maybe time for sum tar an feathers long with a good sought rail and give sum folk a ride to the Mason Dixon line or at least the state line.
Z - In the pre-Super Bowl interview with O'Reilly/Obama - the part that really bothered me was when Bill suggested to the president that there were people that didn't like him and how did that make him feel.
President Obama started saying - Well, Bill, if people don't like me it could be that they don't really know me....and then Bill got right in his face and said in a loud voice: No, Mr.President - HATE YOU - People that HATE you.
I found that shocking even if it was a regular interview and not just before the SB when I'm sure Obama was thinking he could relax a little.
~~~
But the old respect that we used to have for our presidents has now been replaced with familiarity and lack of that respect.
That's modern-day TV for you. Looks matter -- ESPECIALLY with women -- and if they didn't the ladies on "The Five" would be instantly replaced by BRAINIER female conservatives who wouldn't be as open to showing off their calves
Blame Frank Magid.
Imp? Who said anybody's offended? I just think it's cheap tricks, that's all. Good point about getting people to watch...but I assure you I watch sometimes and it's not for the knees :-)
Sue, I did not call Maher your friend, i said 'hero'.
If it ever comes to it, I hope I can say "This is how a Christian woman dies." Not sure I could be brave, but the older I get, the surer I am, and maybe I could!?
And I don't think it was right of O'Reilly to say 'HATE', either, but I believe that, in many ways, Obama's lowered the bar on respect. I don't believe any president's been so insulting to the 'other party' as this one has, do you? Give a link if you've ever heard any Democrat president suggest Republicans don't want jobs, want to kill old people, and hate the poor.
Ticker, I'll let you know if I need you!! :-)
net, Gutfeld is in his late thirties or very early forties and he co hosts THE FIVE and his own show.
net...you call saying "he should F*** her harder" acceptable?
And, THE FIVE also has the lovely Dana Perrino, who I think is as bright as any of the brightest ugly liberals :-)
Elbro; what about Magrid? I don't see anything about T&A and newswomen...! :-)
I love the Five. I now have stopped watching O'Reilly who irritates me and Hannity. I tape the Five and it entertains me.
BB...I'd have thought that if she had to die, they could at least know who she WAS? !! I suppose it can be found but I'm not in the mood right now...thanks for the link...ugh
FB, it's certainly a good thing that Gadhafi's not in action anymore.
He sensationalized the news. Took it from mere reporting to"action" news, responsible I think for "if it bleeds it leads" mentality and in large part for the sexualization of the news.
Here's another
He often replaced older more seasoned reporters with younger more attractive ones. Though he's not directly responsible for the bevy of beauties at Fox his influence is definitely a part of those bare knees.
Well Sue, I can tell you that Z is so much more than this blog. She's a beautiful, fiercely loyal friend, whose suffered in the last two years more than some people in their whole life. She's vivacious smart and gorgeous. She puts up with my phone calls and is a source of encouragement.
I really really like her.
Elbro, thanks SO much. and you've been a great friend especially these last 2 years; you AND your family.
xxx !
Z, I think Greg is 41. I maintain there's a huge difference between 32 and 41.
I said you will never see an early 30-ish male hosting "The Five" -- and you won't lol
And if Andrea wasn't a cutie, early 30s or not, she wouldn't be there.
With a much less serious show like "Red Eye", "wisdom" isn't quite as mandatory =)
Imp, I'll be 46 next month. Feels okay so far.
Andrea Tantaro is a political consultant who has plenty of worthwhile things to say; I'm not sure what you think she's doing there, net........she's not one of the beauties and maybe disagreeing with her disqualifies her intelligence, but I don't see it that way.
If Rachel Maddow wasn't quite so misled and nasty, I'd admit she isn't dumb.
what makes me laugh is how she's on Meet the Press from time to time (maybe always? I can't watch anymore as I'm at church) and they'd NEVER EVER have Hannity on or O'Reilly ..have they had on Coulter?
See, they can't much argue with those folks so I guess they feel it's better not to invite them; but invited a far leftwinger on? NOOOOO problem!
Z,
Like I said earlier, I am not putting Andrea down. I didn't say she wasn't intelligent. I didn't say she was worthless except for her looks or anything like that.
BUT, clearly, Fox could find a more intellectual, more profound conservative female voice if they weren't so obviously concerned about sex appeal. I think that's MORE than obvious.
Perhaps I'm mistaken. Maybe Andrea's the best they could do and she just happens to be cute? I seriously doubt that.
Maddow is definitely intelligent. Obviously not a friend of the right, but her intellect is not in question in my view. Regardless, I think your point about her consistent presence on Meet the Press is a bit flawed.
Maddow has her own prime-time show on MSNBC. Meet the Press is on NBC. These networks are part of the same corporate family. It's quite natural and normal for a big news media outlet to shuffle around its personalities.
While I will concede that I don't watch much in the line of Sunday morning news pundit shows, I don't think the guys on Meet the Press are in any way afraid of being upstaged by someone like Hannity (who I view as mostly a parrot and an automaton) If anything, Meet the Press' producers don't let Hannity on their show because much of their audience would likely turn off if they saw him.
I know net, another truth, a conservative viewpoint, is hard for that type to watch.
By the way, net, I'd have to guess you think Chris Matthews outshines Hannity in all respects, is that right?
Hannity is not my favorite, of course, but let's stick to him as he's hugely popular and conservative, for conversation sake.
Rachel Maddow here:
Rachel Maddow hosts MSNBC’s primetime hit, the critically acclaimed “The Rachel Maddow Show.”
“The Rachel Maddow Show” debuted in September 2008 and was the most successful show launch in MSNBC history, immediately boosting ratings in its time period. “The Rachel Maddow Show” was named one of the top shows of the decade by the Washington Post in 2009. Maddow was also named a “Breakout Star of 2008” by The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times named her to the “Best of Television 2008” and she was named one of the “Top Ten Political Newcomers of 2008” by Politico.com.
Maddow was named MSNBC political analyst in January of 2008. She first gained national prominence as a host on Air America Radio, where she worked from its inception in 2004. Prior to joining AAR, she worked for WRNX in Holyoke, Massachusetts, and WRSI in Northampton, Massachusetts.
Maddow received a bachelor’s degree in public policy from Stanford University. She earned her doctorate in political science at Oxford University, which she attended on a Rhodes Scholarship. She lives in New York City and Massachusetts with her partner, artist Susan Mikula.
Bright, too, if we're to judge her by her doctorate.... she is also one of the meanest, most sarcastic talk show hosts around.....
Brighter than Tantaro? Who knows?
Blogger Z said...
net...I talked to someone about Andrew Tantaro and was led to look into her background.
Republican strategist.
Republican media consultant.
Former House GOP press secretary.
Her brother is a Continental Airlines pilot.
Former press secretary to Gov. William Weld and Judge Jeanine Pirro.
FoxNews.com contributor.
Graduate of Lehigh University and The Universite de Paris in Paris, France. Proficient in Spanish, French and Greek and lives in New York City.
She is of Greek descent.
Currently, she is a vice-president with Sloane and Company where she specializes in crisis communications, health-care and public affairs clients. Before joining Sloane, she started Andrea Tantaros Media, where she advised Fortune 500 corporations and political campaigns facing reputational challenges and media strategy.
Former intern to (extremely liberal) Bill Press.
Columnist, New York Daily News.
Quite a string of interesting positions....and, as always, on FOX, never belittling or hateful to Bob Beckel or any other liberal they discuss......
I had no idea she'd interned for Bill Press; good that she sought exposure to the liberal thinking, too...well rounded.
Apparently having a PHD does not mean you are always truthful
"Apparently having a PHD does not mean you are always truthful.."
But it does mean you may be smart enough to invent your own facts and present them as "truth". Hence...Maddow. They needed someone with a better pedigree than the guy whose degree was from an agricultural school...now disappeared into the fog of....Al Gores massive enterprises.
"Columnist, New York Daily News."
I wonder if they've hired an armed escort for her office there?
net said:"clearly, Fox could find a more intellectual, more profound conservative female voice if they weren't so obviously concerned about sex appeal. "
You are technically correct, but the primary reason for the sexy, brainy ladies is money. Sex sells, and those brainy babes bring the viewers, which bring the advertisers, which bring the money.
Still, from what I understand, Bill O'Reilly has the top rated show and I never see a leg shot when he is on the camera. So, possibly sex is not the only reason Fox News Network is the highest rated in the country.
Net...one day....we have to meet up.
I buy the beer / wine or JD...your choice!
You buy the next round..OK?
Hopefully, we can trade barbs BS.....politics....and get to know each other.
And I'll bet...even though I've been a huge pain in the ass to you Net...we might trade opinions ( political differences ) and insights evenly...and I'm pretty sure that I'd be one of your best "Red Neck" friends. At the very least...you'd be one of my friends.
I admire and respect your beliefs...I mean that Net.
You are a man that I can listen to and learn from. And as old as I am....I think I can learn a thing or two from you.
Sincerely
Imp
Imp...net confuses me with differing 'messages', but he's a great guy and I wish I could meet with you both!
Bob..excellent point about O'Reilly. No, no sex appeal there (especially from HIM :-)
My 18 year old just summed this up nicely, "We don't put video's up like this, NOT for Gaddafi's sake, but for humanities sake."
I couldn't agree with him more. But I have no problem with NOT putting this video up for his sake. And sounding quite a bit like Forest Gump... my mama always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right".
I hate to admit it, but Imp's grown on me a bit. I was never gonna admit that on my own. hehe
That would be one LONG beer summit, Imp lol
And it just goes to show, Z, there is a lot of value in open and honest and CIVIL dialogue. We may not agree in the end but so often we achieve a deeper understanding of another perspective when we stop clinching our fists.
Imp, didn't you say you were in FL? I "might" be in St. Pete for a brief vacation with my left-of-center best friend before the end of the year.
My pal beats me up every weekend for being too sympathetic with Tea Party types. I'm sure the three of us would be a big love fest lol
But I'll have to think about THAT meeting before I commit hehe
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