The Focus Groups after Thursday night's Republican presidential possible hopefuls found HERMAN CAIN the winner.Now, YOU TELL ME....most of us absolutely adore Alan West and would vote for him tomorrow and Mr. Cain and Lieutenant Colonel West are both Black Americans. But, they're CONSERVATIVES!?
How can the Left constantly call us RACIST for not LOVING Obama and criticizing the horrid things he's doing and questioning his very fuzzy past...but we would vote a Cain/West ticket yesterday if we could? (or at least some of us might)..........does that make sense to YOU?What do you think?
z
104 comments:
I have been saying this for a while. If Cain and West team up, they are will bury Obama.
I know I have said this before, but I have personally met Mr. Cain and what you see is what you get. He doesn't pull any punches.
They've got my vote, no doubt about it.
How about West/Bachman?
How can the Left constantly call us RACIST for not LOVING Obama and criticizing the horrid things he's doing and questioning his very fuzzy past...but we would vote a Cain/West ticket yesterday if we could?
Simple.
from the Nietzschean Will to Power Liberalism 101 book of famous maxims:
"The criterion of truth resides in the enhancement of the feeling of power."
If it makes them feel more powerful to believe that the Right is nothing but a bunch of loser racists... then that's their TRUTH.
The psychological explanation of this. To derive something unknown from something familiar relieves, comforts, and satisfies, besides giving a feeling of power. With the unknown, one is confronted with danger, discomfort, and care; the first instinct is to abolish these painful states. First principle: any explanation is better than none. Since at bottom it is merely a matter of wishing to be rid of oppressive representations, one is not too particular about the means of getting rid of them: the first representation that explains the unknown as familiar feels so good that one "considers it true." The proof of pleasure ("of strength") as a criterion of truth.
The causal instinct is thus conditional upon, and excited by, the feeling of fear. The "why?" shall, if at all possible, not give the cause for its own sake so much as for a particular kind of cause--a cause that is comforting, liberating, and relieving. That it is something already familiar, experienced, and inscribed in the memory, which is posited as a cause, that is the first consequence of this need. That which is new and strange and has not been experienced before, is excluded as a cause. Thus one searches not only for some kind of explanation to serve as a cause, but for a particularly selected and preferred kind of explanation--that which has most quickly and most frequently abolished the feeling of the strange, new, and hitherto unexperienced: the most habitual explanations. Consequence: one kind of positing of causes predominates more and more, is concentrated into a system and finally emerges as dominant, that is, as simply precluding other causes and explanations. The banker immediately thinks of "business," the Christian of "sin," and the girl of her love
--Nietzsche, "Twilight of the Idols"
...and Democrats confronted by an uncomfortable fact ascribe "racism" as to the motive of the messengers of those uncomfortable facts (Republicans).
...because if we're REALLY racists, our political opinions shouldn't matter.
The left labels anyone who disagrees with Obama a racist.
The left labels anyone who asks questions about the lack of transparency in Obama's past a birther.
The left labels anyone who asks questions about the inconsistent information released about OBL's death a conspiracy nut.
If the GOP doesn't find a way to neutralize the effect of these labels, then 2012 will be a disappointment for the right.
The Fed prints money. The value of the $ plummets. The cost of food, energy, et al rises. American taxpayers get stuck with the tab to give money to banksters and other crooks. Oh yeah I almost forgot..... Herman Cain is former Chair of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City and doesn't think we need to audit the Federal Reserve.
I can't wait till you nominate someone who wants to return to the gold standard.
Get that man talking.
The left labels anyone who asks questions about the inconsistent information released about OBL's death a conspiracy nut.
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Yup
Love the article, z.
"Cain is the former CEO of Godfather's Pizza and this makes him perfect to become the next President of the United States."
This material writes itself. You can't be serious.
I notice that none of the contenders even bothered to attend this big extravaganza. What's up, no Trump, no Mittens, no Huckleberry?
Leticia....They'd have my racist vote, too, you can count on it ! Very cool that you've met him and think that much of him.
AOW....I don't think West is ready and Bachman already gets on my nerves.
shhhhh...don't tell a SOUL but I think I"m a male chauvinist :-)
FJ...what a quote...fabulous. I think I'm getting to be a Nietzsche fan..."The criterion of truth resides in the enhancement of the feeling of power."
Here's another quote I LOVE of his:
"He who has a Why to live for can bear almost any How." Incredible.
FJ, isn't there some quote about how RACIST is the answer to any time someone doesn't agree with a liberal? I think someone's got that on their sidebar, but I can't remember which blogger.
CUBE: this is brilliant and I wish you'd post on it (or I will :-) "If the GOP doesn't find a way to neutralize the effect of these labels, then 2012 will be a disappointment for the right."
I couldn't agree with you more. We'll be fighting the lies more than fighting Obama.
Soapster..don't vote for him.
Ducky...I'm shocked and stunned you felt you needed to attack again and insult Cain. ARE YOU RACIST? YOU MUST BE!!!! :-)
Conservatives aren't like Libs, Ducky...we had to get the CELEBS out of the way so we could get to hear the solid guys; You guys run on celebrity and entitlements...And have weakened AMericans to the point that's all they can see.
See Cube's comment. Be afraid, be very afraid. Four more years of YOUR GUY will kill American completely. And I think you realize that. But DON'T VOTE FOR A GUY WHO RAN A COMPANY and KNOWS ABOUT RUNNING COMPANIES AND ECONOMIES! :-)
I watched the GOP debate last night, and it felt like another lively political comment thread here at Z's. :)
Three conservatives, a libertarian, and a cryptoleftist fruitcake is how i'd describe last night's stage.
I was impressed most with Rick Santorum and Tim Pawlenty.
Santorum's asking Ron Paul how he'd send in a helicopter assualt team to get bin Laden in Pakistan without troops and basing in Afghanistan took the wind out of the sails of even his rabid supporters, who shut the hell up for the rest of the night. No serious discussion of Ron Paul can get anywhere without acknowledging the observable fact that Ron Paul is a blithering idiot, so it was good that both Santorum and Pawlenty did that with their crosstalk remarks. Less Ron Paul supporters left the audience last night than entered it.
Gary Johnson is usually a libertarian superhero for me. Anyone who wants to end Medicare, period, is going to get my attention. He's a fellow rock / mountain climber, so I identify with him there too. His immigration "path to work visa" plan is the most sensible immigration idea I've seen presented by anybody. A little polish, and he'll make waves as well.
I have mixed feelings on Herman Cain. I wanted to see the Herman Cain that hosts a radio talk show, and instead we got the Herman Cain that plugs his company "mission statement" into apple-polishing PowerPoint presentations at generic staff meetings. We've all worked with or for that guy, and none of us have fond memories. "First I'd hire the right people, then I'd get them to form the right commitee, and then I'd have them do the right things." Surely there's more to Cain than what he scribbled on a memo pad. We'll see.
Ron Paul... seriously, man. Give up.
Pawlenty had a delivery problem... over-rehearsed,
wooden..a conservative Al Gore.
Beamish, I think Cain might have been nervous, who wouldn't be?
Also, I think it's awfully early to draw conclusions but I like most of yours.
Have you heard the Cain Radio show? How is he on that?
Hi, BB....thanks for coming by.
I've been telling my friends who like Pawlenty he needs to loosen up and drop the pained look or the little smirk on his face, he fluctuates between the two.
I sure do like what he said a LOT LOT LOT more than anything Gore ever said, though.
He impressed me more than I thought he would.
How do you like Santorum?
"If the GOP doesn't find a way to neutralize the effect of these labels.."
What needs to be made clear is that the Dems are so stupid that they'd elect a ham sandwich so long as it has a "D" after it's name...it panders to separatism...Hyphenated "Americans"...the plantation mentality... and worse than all that...muslim supremacists! They provide aid and comfort to those who believe they are "Owed" all that they would never legitimately earn.
However...in a way...I do believe that Republicans are needlessly bending over backwards to prove how sensitive they are and will never overcome the ethnic divsions, initiated by dems.
The demrats have always had the upper hand when it comes to the grievance crowd.
R's are wasting their time...even if their ideals really match conservative blacks and latins.
Beamish, I think Cain might have been nervous, who wouldn't be?
Also, I think it's awfully early to draw conclusions but I like most of yours.
Gary Johnson seemed more nervous to me, actually.
Maybe it's Cain's presentation style. It was too formulaic for my tastes. Whenever someone turns their answers into bullet points ticked off one by one on their fingers, but don't really say anything substantive, I get flashbacks of department staff meetings that took time away from my life that I can't have back.
Have you heard the Cain Radio show? How is he on that?
Much much much more animated.
Imp, you say "the Dems are so stupid that they'd elect a ham sandwich so long as it has a "D" after it's name.."
That's okay. I'm so stupid I'd vote for Jack the Ripper over Obama. :-)
What do you mean "the R's are wasting their time?" By 'bending over backwards'?
I don't think we will ever get a good man to win again, considering the media and professors have indoctrinated Americans into entitlement whores....do you think we have a chance?
Beamish......good that he's more animated. Imagine if he'd been very animated with those sticks standing around him? He'd have looked like a nut. Give him time...let us warm to him, he's new; I'm certainly not sold on him yet, but I'm more optimistic today than I was yesterday about R's chances, that is FOR SURE.
So, everybody; how can we be racists? Or maybe the Left will now say we are only racist toward people of mixed race like Obama? (though I'm pretty sure he has forgotten that point) :-)
Let me see if I can follow Ducky’s logic. Looking favorably upon a communist organizer is a positive thing, looking favorably upon a corporate president is a negative thing.
Go figure … who knew Ducky was a communist?
Oh, I'm not bad-mouthing Cain, per se. It's just his responses last night were canned into bullet points, like his answers are variables inserted into a "tick them off my fingers" template. The satirist in me wants to write Cain getting out of bed... "Well, getting out of bed is a four step process. First, I roll over to my left and turn off the alarm clock. And then I ever so gently slip my left foot to the floor to see if it is cold. If the floor is cold, I look over my flowchart to see if it's winter time or if i've got the air conditioner up too high. And then..."
But, I don't want to satirize him... just yet. ;)
I like Herman Cain. Disagree with him on some issues, but I could vote for him.
I could vote for any of them from last night except Ron Paul. If I had to choose one out of the five last night, I'd choose Pawlenty, but I'd want Santorum as his running mate. Or Santorum, with Pawlenty as a running mate.
We're going to see Pawlenty's "destroy my enemies" side when Mitt Romney's bold enough to share a stage with him.
"do you think we have a chance?"
No...I do not. It will never matter to the liars, commie, subversives on the other side that we'll enthusiastically , faithfully and honestly support with all our passions...Cain or West. Even Rubio for that matter. It matters not.
The leftist scum have forever successfully painted us as the racists...when it's the total opposite.
The demrats...the party of secession, separatism, the civil war, slavery and socialism, racist Gores's as well as the KKK's Robert Byrds are the true division in this country.
The only party that has managed to successfully label...success, independence, personal responsibility, hard work and education as a negative and with scorn ( remember 51% now pay no Taxes ) a way out of poverty, slavery and dependence..is the demrats with their propagandist, lying and with the complicity of the richest libs on earth...the demrats ( yet the suckers in the lib ghettos think otherwise ).
So long as the libs wear every color rainbow ribbon on their lapels...they will be seen as the saviors to the lazy masses.
The demrats have them in their corral...in their servitude...and once more...as low country bottom feeding slaves to do as their "saviors" wish.
So long as boring morons like Mitt can't fist bump or make a great hook shot...they'll be scorned. They'll always be viewed as girly men. They'll never be "hip" or have the street cred that the lowlifes adore.
Alan West...means nothing to blacks. Remember...he's a "Tom"...a cookie.
And of course the so "sensitive" party of slavery will never back a black...that doesn't plow their field.
"Maybe YOU didn't understand what I said."......
"What religion has mass murdered more innocent men, women and children?"
Friend...in my short lifetime? It ain't the Popes palace guards.
Be honest...over the past 40 years? It sure as hell ain't the Catholics. And if you're referring to the Jews, friend.....I'm aghast.
Common Sense, Oh, gee, I GIVE UP? CHRISTIANITY? :-) you say this all the time...why would you come to an avowedly Christian blog and do this over and over again? Do you think Christians are unthinking morons who haven't heard all this before? NO, we've heard it, we've learned and we know the truth.
By the way, when a true Bible-reading Christian kills people, let us know. If you're including HITLER as CHristian, you need to research. Thanks!
Imp, I was hoping you'd say "Of course we have a chance"
You're right about CHristians, Imp!
I'm trying to picture Jesus Christ with a noose around someone's neck......"YOU WILL DIE! I HATE YOU!" :-)
What religion has mass murdered more innocent men, women and children?
That would be the various sects of Leftism combined (300+ million dead and counting)
beamish. exactly..atheists:
Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot...you name it. millions and millions.
Not necessarily atheists. The Left's various ecclesiastical groupings have been doing the cult of personality worship thing since Robespierre appointed himself God.
Beamish....
My fathers family was from...what was Eastern Germany.
My family genealogy ( on my side ) and history goes back many, many years to the the German republic.
I know with certainty that ( my Dad told me ) we had too many relatives that today were considered...."Germans". But today might still be considered as Nazi's.
My wife...is a Jew. My daughter is a Jew. It mattered not to the Germans that my wifes ancestors were..."Germans". And maybe, not Nazi's. They were Jews...period.
We ,on my wifes side, still have relatives alive with tatoos...we had two of them over to my home on Passover.
Yet, Beamer....we never, ever considered them...Nazi's. Because they were there then and managed to survive and immigrate later....
But today it's really hard to separate muslims from violence, treachery and sedition towards America. Towards you....towards all of us.
Sorry if your sister has decided to adopt an orthodoxy that has declared you and me ( as Christians or Jews ) enemies.
Maybe you'd ask her just what her philosophy towards America is?
Because it's beyond question that islam is the enemy of America.
Then I have to ask...something which you may not be able to answer....why has she chosen a political ideology which makes her a third class citizen and a slave of islam?
But, it does strike me as unnerving that the calls today by AL Qaeda lovers for KILLING AMERICANS have to be practically ignored today because "who do we hit back? they're cockroaches maybe nesting in my backyard".....
We are careful because we try not to kill innocents and their lock and trade is COLLATERAL DAMAGE.
I just look at the big picture.
Al Qaeda's goal is a new pan-Sunni Islamic Caliphate ruled from Baghdad that overthrew Arab dictatorships and instituted Sharia law to wipe out all Shia Muslims, Jews, Christians and all things non-Sunni.
Al Qaeda is no where near taking over Baghdad (thanks Bush) nor are they all that popular among the mostly secular uprisings across the Middle East and North Africa. They're leaping for democracy (thanks Bush) and will get it for themselves if Obama doesn't mess it up.
So we have to ask, who are these "al Qaeda lovers?" Are they marginalizing themselves further by pushing their religious intolerances on a world ruled by Ipods and Coca-Cola?
Al Qaeda just doesn't have a proven track record in sucessfully overthrowing any government or bringing popular reforms to people.
Muslims don't like getting their asses kicked by the United States anymore than anyone else does. Al Qaeda's appeal - "live your life on the run in fear" - just doesn't have a nice sales pitch. "Kill all Muslims" is precisely the kind of rhetoric al Qaeda is counting on its enemies to invoke, to swell their numbers with more recruits.
But today it's really hard to separate muslims from violence, treachery and sedition towards America. Towards you....towards all of us.
Agreed.
Sorry if your sister has decided to adopt an orthodoxy that has declared you and me ( as Christians or Jews ) enemies.
I am disappointed in my sister's theological tastes, and wonder at the cognitive dissonance that dominates her thinking, but she's never personally declared me her enemy.
Besides, I'd just fall back on "your testimony is worthless without corroboration, female" if the argument got that thick. I like to teach with wrought irony (upside the head)
Maybe you'd ask her just what her philosophy towards America is?
She doesn't have one not centrally planned for her by far left media sources.
Because it's beyond question that islam is the enemy of America.
I would reword this as "Islam is incompatible with the US Constitution."
But, on the other hand, no enemy of the United States has eliminated more US Army and Marine divisions, Air Force fighter and bomber wings, and Navy carrier battle groups than the Democratic Party.
Then I have to ask...something which you may not be able to answer....why has she chosen a political ideology which makes her a third class citizen and a slave of islam?
She's in Cairo, Egypt teaching schoolchildren how to speak English. A working woman, preparing children to live in a world dominated by American opportunity and the language of international trade.
She does this amid real political chaos and violence and barely being able to afford a loaf of bread if she's lucky to find one in the markets by her home.
I can't wait to "debrief" her further when she comes back to America later this month, but aside from her choice of religion and loopy-left political naivete, I can still see the good in her.
For me, that's enough. I'm certainly not going to persuade her away from the "dark side" with "slag the rags" posturing.
Being nice will dump enough coals on her head, as the saying goes.
"Here’s the man himself performing his assigned media role a few months ago on Hannity, dutifully reciting Islamist talking points while the host pounds him to the audience’s delight. Choudary did make one good point at today’s rally, though: Whatever happened to the “logic” that killing terrorists only creates more terrorists? We heard that from the left ad nauseam for the last five years of the Bush presidency, yet now their hero spends his days ordering drone strikes and sending SEALs to shoot jihadis in the face, and … nothing. Go figure."
Screw Islam...screw muslims.
Who in America...doesn't want to shit in this guys hat...or face?
http://tinyurl.com/66boca3
Beamish "A working woman, preparing children to live in a world dominated by American opportunity and the language of international trade."
Not so much anymore, that is for SURE. Those were the days.
Your modeling and kindness and acceptance of her as a woman is going to be the only thing that might bring her around...good call, Beamish.
"She doesn't have one not centrally planned for her by far left media sources." Voila
Those I mentioned are atheists and millions were killed because of them.
Also, "AL QAEDA" has become a sort of catch-all for "Muslims who want us dead"......I don't mean them exactly when I cite that group; I mean islamists in general.
I guess I should be more careful with that.
Impertinent: You'd be stunned that the largest number of resistance fighters were Germans fighting Hitler. That's not taught here, of course.
I like Cain/Bachmann for 2012. If I am to be consistent in my criticism of Obama being inexperienced, I will have to say the same of West. He hasn't the experience he needs yet. I like him a lot, but he needs a bit more political seasoning. He could be a vice-presidential candidate (with Cain or Bachmann) in 2016 or a Presidential candidate in 2020. Maybe Democrats can be satisfied with inexperience in the Oval office, but I'm not, and neither are most Conservatives, in my opinion.
While some may make the argument that Cain doesn't have experience presiding over a country, he does have experience running a multi-million dollar corporation, and what is the United States if not a massive corporation of sorts?
Bachmann has enough political experience, however, to counter balance the relatively lack of political experience of Cain. That said, a West/Bachmann ticket would be equally effective in forcing those 96% of black voters (remember the black voters, without whom Obama would have lost?)to decide who to vote for based on something other than skin color.
When faced with a choice between a black man with logical common sense solutions to America's problems and a black man who promises some ambiguous "hope and change" without explaining how he proposes to create that hope and change (especially after he had four years to accomplish that goal and failed), could some of that 96% actually make a more logical choice, or will they simply stay away from the polls because they just can't make up their minds?
Not to get into the sordid history of the hells I've been through either with my sister or marched in to drag her kicking and screaming out of... abusive relationships, drugs, suicide attempts... Islam has somehow given her something that she could find nowhere else. I can feel her on that - my life's been quite a theological safari as well.
I don't understand her attraction to Islam, and never will. But as long as it makes her happy to be alive and able to manage without grief, guilt, drugs, and depression, if it works for her, who am I to tell her she's wrong.
If she wants to worship a meteorite in Mecca, that's her thing. Heck, I've done zazen on a creaking limb 50 feet up in a tree in my day. We all have our comforting rituals, I suppose.
I just want to point out that she can be Muslim in America. If she wants to be hardcore, be hardcore here.
It's easy to be faithful in a pew. Get in the mosh pit with it.
The way I see it, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson can go home. They're done.
I liked Santorum and his direct manner. Pawlenty and Cain both came off as conservative enough. All three were no nonsense. I like that.
I would vote for Allen West in a heartbeat, but I think, it's too early for him to step up to the plate. He needs some seasoning.
""Cain is the former CEO of Godfather's Pizza and this makes him perfect to become the next President of the United States."
This material writes itself. You can't be serious."
Ducky, Truman was a former Habberdasher, so? He was pretty darn good, wasn't he?
Obama was an opportunist and a phony, and still is. Get real.
You tipped your hand as always Ducky. I knew all we had to do, is watch who the left would try to make a joke of. Herman Cain scares you doesn't he?
If he got the nomination how would you play the race card?
I haven't settled on anyone yet, but so far these men appear to be grown ups, and I think since, "it's the economy stupid", Obama will look a bit smaller, and his doubletalk not as persuasive as it once was.
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". If the electorate hasn't wised up by now, it never will. I think enough of them have.
@mustand Let me see if I can follow Ducky’s logic.
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Let me try to make it easy to follow mustang. Cain is a fool. He wants to switch to the gold standard when we have a weak currency. That means we take the brunt.
Now the fact that he is a black fool is irrelevant, z. I don't run a politically correct operation and blacks can certainly qualify as fools.
I also don't understand why mustang thinks a leftist like myself would support a right of center triangulator like Obummer but be that as it may.
Cain is a fool. He wants to switch to the gold standard when we have a weak currency. That means we take the brunt.
I wasn't aware that Cain is a goldbug. Yuck. If true, I can write him off completely. The gold standard is the reason America got out the Great Depression slower than everyone else.
It's certainly not a model for economic recovery for anyone other than those who idealize the rationing of food and fuel while half the able-bodied population is off in another country fighting a war.
Pris "Herman Cain scares you doesn't he?" Exactly. The more Ducky's scared the harder he hits.
Mark, I am just not sold on Bachmann somehow...I like what she says most of the time....I think Palin's worn a lot of us out with the female screechy intensity...I know I'll get hell for this, but that's ME, I'm not trying to sell any way I feel.
I totally agree with you that West needs seasoning.
Cain, too, but he has had great experience and I believe he's older than West, too.
Ducky, sell it somewhere else.
If you read my posts at all and didn't just blather away on one word you saw, you'd know that Black candidates' relevancy has nothing to do with anything.
My POINT is and always has been that when black candidates are this popular with anybody that anybody isn't racist.
Re Obama and your ridiculous assertions of his being 'right of center'......what can one say? it's so utterly uninformed and so utterly FAR LEFT it's not worth my time.
He is indeed, Beamish. I swear, a half hour of this guy and you'll be begging for Ron Paul.
Beamish, let's look into that...
Is this why thinking people (conservatives) blame FDR for lengthening our depression?...this gold standard thing? I'm not up on that at ALL.
not that I'd applaud someone with a buggy idea if it's truly buggy just because it can't happen, but does anybody think anybody'd buy this gold standard thing NOW?
Ducky, explain that to me, if you don't mind. this gold standard thing.........please.
The way I see it, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson can go home. They're done.
I'll meet you halfway, Pris. Ron Paul doesn't belong on the stage, much less in the Republican Party. I'm willing to hear more from Gary Johnson, though I'm presently in the Pawlenty corner.
Gary Johnson irritates you for the same reasons I do :P
Watching Gary Johnson up there was like watching my girlfriend's husband (any girlfriend's husband) up there.
I was thinking "What's WITH this guy?"
Beamish, I just looked into the Gold Standard's history and it seems to me like it kept people 'honest'.......not printing money....
help. I'd like to hear your input.
Obviously, you disagree that it's 'harmless'.
I have been a Herman Cain fan for a long time. When you listen to his radio show on WSB here in Atlanta, you hear solutions to problems that are well thought out, and just reek of experience and confidence.
Admittedly, he is not as articulate as some, but don't hold that against him. He is a very bright person, and can hold his own with any of the other candidates.
I would like to see him debate Big O. Cain would mop the floor with Barack.
Allen West is a very interesting person. West is a confident leader of men, and does not shrink from the tough or dangerous jobs. I would like to know more about him.
WOW, the GOP really has no one. Get ready for Obama's second term. Yeah!!!
Hi, Bob... you said "Cain would mop the floor with Barack."
I think about any Conservative candidate would.
Bd....my, how very clever of you! :-)
Uh-oh.
I just read in the comments, and checked it out via Google search, that Cain favors a gold standard. That makes his candidacy problematic.
There is almost no way we want to go back to a gold standard. There are many reasons, but I understand why some people would favor it.
Right now the US debt is $14,321,667,187,751.55. That's today! This debt and our currency, are backed up ONLY by the full faith and credit of the United States Government. Check out S&P's opinion for that credit thingy.
Retired people, like me, would favor a sounder backing to our savings than the full faith and credit of a Marxist President. It gets scary, but there is nothing we can do but force our leaders to stick to rational economic policies.
Oh, well. Thanks for the red flag on Cain.
The weak currency would be devalued in a shift to the gold standard. That would bring some serious pain to the U.S., z, since ours is one of the weakest.
Now if you want to elect this light weight and shift to the gold standard you better make damn sure you're in Swiss francs.
"Gary Johnson irritates you for the same reasons I do :P"
Beamish, really? And what reasons are those?
I thought Johnson looked like a deer in the headlights. He seemed like he was in over his head.
Z,
There used to be 2 solid reasons why the gold standard is the canard of the economically illiterate. Now in the age of modern electronics, there's 3 solid reasons.
1.) $7.5 Trillion
That's the total market value of all 142,000 metric tons of gold that has ever been mined in the entirety of human history. That wouldn't run the bloated US government for two years, much less the economy of the world. That wouldn't even cover the $8.3 Trillion dollars in fiat currency circulating in the US economy, in banks, your pocket, and the cash registers at the stores. If you think gasoline per gallon or your cell phone bill is too high, just wait until the gas station wants $300 gold backed dollars a gallon for gas, and the $300 fiat dollars you had in the bank get converted to $4 gold dollars. Let's not even talk about the phone company charging you $750 a month for unlimited texting. The inflationary correction caused by reverting to the gold standard would devastate EVERYBODY, simply because there just isn't enough mined gold on the entire planet to back even half of America's GDP per year, much less fixed in perpetuity. The dollar would have to be pegged to such a microscopic amount of the gold the US Treasury actually has on hand (which no where even close to a sizeable fraction the $7.5 Trillion worth mined in all of human history) that prices could never be stabilized.
2.) Because the gold standard relies on the supply of gold on hand, in a recession, banks can't lend and extend credit to increse the money supply to stimulate the economy - they don't have anything to back a loan with, and few would have the collateral to risk for credit. Couple that with Donald Trumpian or Ron Paulian screeches for trade tariffs and you've got the Great Depression again. Imagine if today's national debt was monetized on the gold standard - it would be nearly 20 times the insane amount of debt it is now (repriced at $280 Trillion national debt) and the creditors want gold to pay it off. A debt requiring over 37 times more gold than has been ever mined to service. Ron Paul sez "Aw hell, just default on it, no biggie" but world wars will be fought with nuclear weapons in the future. I can't stress enough how much stupid Ron Paul is, but his approach is not just the equivalent of lighting candles because the power company shut off your electricity for non-payment, it's giving the armed masses of the world's militaries an incentive to try to take each other's stuff. Frankly, anyone that thinks Ron Paul is a libertarian, much less a conservative, doesn't know the meaning of the words.
And...
3.) Gold is not just money and jewelry. It's speaker wire. It's antennae leads. It's dental fillings. It's precision micro-circuitry. If you think new home building is hit hard by the high cost of copper right now (electrical wiring, plumbing) just wait until people are tearing down all technology just to get a gold standard penny's worth of scrap.
The gold standard is neon imbecility. Any and all advocates need be dismissed as buffoons on sight.
Beamish, thanks, I'll read this tomorrow.
Pris, he seemed confident to me, just boring and not very deep.
Ducky, Cain is solid in many ways, nobody here is advocating seriously voting for him yet......we're not monolithic, we Conservatives, and it's wise to discuss all aspects.
Name one way he is solid?
He worked for a corporation who put him in charge of a freaking pizza chain? Bet they employed plenty of illegals, I know you folks go for that.
I wish we had a candidate for either party that could manage fiscal policy but we don't.
"Gary Johnson irritates you for the same reasons I do :P"
Beamish, really? And what reasons are those?
He's not a social conservative (pro-choice, pro-marijuana legalization, would streamline work visa applications for illegal immigrants, etc.)
I'm anti-abortion, of course, but dude wants to take a chainsaw to government busybody lifestyle regulators. Can't hate him for that.
The only candidate on the stage willing to admit he'd abolish Medicare and replace it with a indifferent smirk. That, I like.
But, all feigned cold-heartedness aside, it's because markets abhor a vacuum just as much as nature does. If the government were out of the social service and welfare biz, the private sector would fill that void, do it better, and make it profitable.
He's not ever going to win the hearts and minds of the Jesus in Geometry class crowd, but on reducing the size and intervention of the federal government, Johnson's all about the "shut up and do it" approach.
Hardcore libertarians like me tingle when we hear that.
I wish we had a candidate for either party that could manage fiscal policy but we don't.
I'm a candidate. :P
Remember, I'm the one would wants to take all the revenue taken in by the Federal government intended for social spending, some $2.7 Trillion in cash, and make the world largest bonfire out of it.
Nothing will tighten the money supply, curb inflation, and strengthen the value of the dollar than taking one-third of all the paper money in America and setting it on fire.
Now: $4 a gallon gas
Gold Standard: $300 a gallon gas
Beamish deflation firestorm: $1.30 a gallon gas
Vote for me, or go screw yourself. Aren't you tired of screwing yourself?
:P
Z,
I don't think West is ready and Bachman already gets on my nerves.
Maybe, but I really don't see Herman Cain as ready either. What political experience does he have?
FJ, isn't there some quote about how RACIST is the answer to any time someone doesn't agree with a liberal?
I'm not familiar with the quote, but I can attest to it's inherent veracity. Who could believe the untruth more ardently that "Republicans are naught but racists", BUT a "recovering racist" himself (like a recovering alcoholic). They love Obama because he's their "magic negro" who now "absolves them of the "stigmata" of their former sinful racist nature".
...and so they forever return to taking communion in the church of racism, and thereby "sustain" their conviction in their former belief, that ALL minorities ARE inferior. Trouble for THEM is, the RNC NEVER was the racist party to begin with nor did they ever subscribe to said belief.
In other words, Republicans are today and always have been "nationalists", not "racists". They believe in the inherent superiority of the distinctively "American" system of government and laws, not in their own individual "genetic" superiority or the "inherent" superiority of the "white race", that's a conviction that DEMOCRATS formerly believed.
"The criterion of truth resides in the enhancement of the feeling of power."
...and so now you see how possible it becomes to hold all kinds of "crazy" beliefs as "truth".
Z: ALL leftists are racists. It IS what they're all about.
They will deny it, jump up and down screaming, pout and whine, but history proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is the left who are racists.
They love Obama because he's their "magic negro" who now "absolves them of the "stigmata" of their former sinful racist nature".
I was reminded by BZ recently, you have to keep in mind that Bill Clinton was the first "black" president! ;-)
Spam about the problem of "progressive" liberalism. ;)
Beamish, thanks for the gold standard lesson. I still think it would have kept us more honest but it's clear this can't happen today.
Dear Mr (or Ms) beamish
It doesn't make any difference what your currency is referenced against. If you wee to convert to a gold standard, the biggest problem is that increasing the money supply or adjusting interest rates to support a growing economy is very difficult, if not impossible.
You need something perceived as stable and reliable for a currency reference. Gold fits that purpose as almost no other substance or property, especially now when the "full faith and credit of the United States Government" is under serious and realistic question.
It makes absolutely no difference how much gold is in the vaults. It-is-what-it-is, and those lumps of gold would not be put into circulation. I am not sure where you get the idea that we would use the gold in Ft Knox to pay the bills. Or, may I didn't read you correctly.
Back to the original topic. Herman Cain is an intelligent man with far more to recommend him to the White House than the incumbent, including favoring a gold standard.
It must be noted that if Herman Cain were the President, we would not be going into the second dip of the worst recession in memory. We would have been out of it over a year ago.
Barack Obama has no idea about economics, and his Marxist advisors are misleading their gullible leader.
Bob, thanks for more gold stdrd info....as you can see from my comment above yours, I still feel it would be a more reliable, strong and unfaltering standard but...I'm no expert. What you say just makes sense.
I'll be eager for Beamish and you to discuss this ... I'd like to learn more.
Bob, did you prefer Cain over Pawlenty and Santorum? Are you solid for Cain or is there anyone else you're very interested in ??
Bob,
It doesn't make any difference what your currency is referenced against. If you wee to convert to a gold standard, the biggest problem is that increasing the money supply or adjusting interest rates to support a growing economy is very difficult, if not impossible.
You're missing the point. All currency is in some way a fiat currency, representative of "something." The "full faith and credit" of our fiat currency is not a deposit of gold, but a bet on the continued productive growth of the US economy itself. Instead of setting the value of gold, we're setting the value of the dollar. A US Dollar used to be backed by 1/20th of an ounce of gold. At current prices off the gold standard, a US Dollar is worth around 1/1500th of an ounce of gold.
You need something perceived as stable and reliable for a currency reference. Gold fits that purpose as almost no other substance or property, especially now when the "full faith and credit of the United States Government" is under serious and realistic question.
This is what makes me laugh about goldbugs, who more often than not also fall among and fold into the New World Order / One World Government / international bankers control the world conspiracy theorists.
We're to switch to a currency backed by a yellow metal largely in the vaults of the dramatis personae of most Illuminati conspiracy theories, and in exchange for their gold, we'll give them our labor or property? Maybe someday put a fence around a patch of dirt and deed it ours, until they want their gold back?
Nothing would put the boogeymen of New World Order conspiracy theorists in actual charge of the world faster than going back on the gold standard.
It makes absolutely no difference how much gold is in the vaults. It-is-what-it-is, and those lumps of gold would not be put into circulation. I am not sure where you get the idea that we would use the gold in Ft Knox to pay the bills. Or, may I didn't read you correctly.
It does matter how much gold is in the vaults in a gold standard economy. And there never could be enough gold in the vaults to support our standard of living or back our economy, much less our asset worth.
The collective assets of the American people (real estate, property, stocks, bonds, savings, pension funds, etc.) is valued at something like $55 Trillion dollars. Another way of looking at that is to say the United States has a net worth seven (and change) times the value of all the gold ever mined in all of human history.
China loans us money because we're good for it.
But not so good for it that we should indebt ourselves 90% of our GDP (as Obama has done.)
Z:
I am not solidly in any candidate's camp. My mind is usually made up before the so-called debates. In this case I was not familiar with some of the candidates, and my homeboy, Herman Cain, turns out to favor the gold standard, a detail I had totally missed.
As to the rest of the candidates on the dais Thursday night, I didn't have a Chris Matthews thrill over Santorum, Johnson, or Paul.
I had never had the opportunity to hear Pawlenty, and found him to be appealing. Time will tell if he can mature his approach, and convince the money people he can win.
Gov Johnson appeals to my Libertarian side. I was rolling my eyes during some of his answers, but his take on the war on drugs was spot on.
The war on drugs has stopped making sense, and we need a national debate on this subject.
Understand that I have moral problems with legalizing all drugs, but I think we can come up with a position that offers some solutions for addicted users, and takes the crime out of the drug trade. Mexico would thank us. The taxpayers would be grateful.
Who do I like? They were not in this debate.
Gingrich and Romney are the most intelligent candidates in any party. Out of the two, I would go with Newt. The man has been in the political wars and has distinguished himself as the most important political visionary of the 20th century. He is brilliant.
Poor Mitt has to overcome that unwise Massachusetts health care thing. That one may be terminal, but if he can survive the primary wars, he may have my vote.
I see Trump and Palin almost in the same role. Neither is intimidated by a second-rate community organizer and union fan boy, and both are effective in their attacks on BHO.
Trump is on the way down, and Palin seems to be holding her own. Our economy would not suck at all with either as President. Both are charismatic leaders, but after a while the charisma will wear off and you are left with the values and intellect of the individual.
Michelle Bachmann is the only Presidential candidate to whom I have donated any money. In her race for Congress I felt that her winning could be critical, and that she is an extraordinary spokesperson for conservatives. I have not decided to support her in the primaries.
Sorry about the verbosity. You did ask.
A fiat currency allows AT&T to sell you cell phone minutes out of their infinitely-sized invisible warehouses. A fiat currency allows you to subscribe to monthly issues of a magazine that haven't been written yet. A fiat currency allows some people to fix the brakes on your car for the cost of parts to them and a 12-pack of beer.
You can't have that if the dollar's value is pegged to a certain weight of gold rather than the productivity of the tax-paying citizenry.
beamish:
Please accept my apologies in that I had not bothered to look at your profile. BTW, is retrophrenology something like retroactive birth control? Maybe not.
I think we are fairly close on the gold standard issue. I did not intend to support gold as a currency reference. However, I did try to point out that we are drifting into waters where even the gold standard is attractive, especially when that whole "full faith and credit" thing is in trouble.
We were all taught what you have observed, that the full faith and credit of the US is "a bet on the continued productive growth of the US economy itself."
The reality is that never in the history or our nation was it ever intended to have our private means of production and wealth mortgaged. The whole game depends on faith.
The value of the dollar is a perception, and a perception is all it ever was. It is changing because of the realistic probability that we WILL NOT BE GOOD FOR THE PAYMENT OF OUR DEBTS SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.
More likely is the radical inflation of our currency, which the Fed is doing, anyway.
This is China's greatest fear, inflation. We could inflate the hell out of the currency, and pay off all our debts quickly. The problem is that our currency would be like German currency after World War I when they did the same thing.
The gold standard is not a solution to the problem, but right now gold is a lot more attractive that those invested dollars I am trying to live on.
I don't own gold, and I am kicking myself because I did not include some in my portfolio over time. You see, even though you rail against a gold standard, and I advise against it, millions of Americans see the value of their dollar plummeting, and those holding gold as retaining value in their assets.
Is a gold standard workable? No.
However, when the rest of the world favors gold over the dollar, then we will effectively be on a gold standard whether we like it or not. Meaning that if the rest of the world will not take dollars, what will we use as currency? Corn? That's another debate. Fiat currency will not work at that point. Others will call the tune.
So, you see that I am not arguing FOR a gold standard. I am instead warning of a worse fate, the abdication of the United States on outstanding debt, and the inflation of our currency.
beamish:
Not to be argumentative...
"You can't have that if the dollar's value is pegged to a certain weight of gold rather than the productivity of the tax-paying citizenry."
Actually, that's the way it has always worked. For most of history, currency units have been pegged to the weight of gold (or silver) per unit.
The LD company views its product (minutes on the network) as their gold. Selling those minutes brings them gold.
The Midas Muffler Man gets his gold by trading his parts and labor. I don't think beer is always the best for barter, although I might accept a 12 pack occasionally.
In any currency the economy encourages these equivalencies to be made. Money (currency) simply eliminates barter. That's all.
"But, all feigned cold-heartedness aside, it's because markets abhor a vacuum just as much as nature does. If the government were out of the social service and welfare biz, the private sector would fill that void, do it better, and make it profitable."
Beamish, this may surprise you, but I believe if medical insurance never existed, we'd all be better off. The free market would've kept medical costs competetive and abuses to a minimum.
I'd be happy now, if we could claim our insurance premium costs on our tax returns, instead of having the govt. pay health costs through Medicare. The less money the govt. has the better, and we'd have freedom to choose what's best for us.
What makes you think I want Jesus in geometry class? I get what you're saying, but you're way off base.
In any event, your political leanings don't irritate me. So, I'll make a deal with you, if I don't tell you what does irritate me, and you do me the same favor, I think we can coexist on GEEEZ just fine.
Bob, we're on the same page. Gold is a good hedge investment, but it's a bubble, and if you're not out of the gold market when it bursts you'll lose your ass. But, that's true of any investment. Still, as a hedge at current market price, all of the gold ever mined in human history can only hedge $7.5 Trillion in assets. The US Treasury doesn't have all of the gold ever mined in human history (or anywhere near it) and even if it did, it wouldn't back one-half of America's annual GDP in one year, and then what after that? All the gold in the world ever mined in human history can only back around 13.7% of the net worth of the United States of America converted to cash.
You can go to the candy store with a dime and get a piece of bubble gum. You can't go to the bank with a dime and get 1.9 milligrams of gold, even if they had gold on hand.
We're both just revealing the weaknesses of the gold standard from different angles.
By the way, "retrophrenology" is a satirical Terry Pratchett reference. If phrenology is the pseudoscience of determining intelligence, behavior, and personality by the shapes of lumps and dimples in a human head, then "retrophrenology" would be the psuedoscience of engineering changes in intelligence, behavior, and personality by changing the shapes of lumps and dimples in a human head with a hammer. :P
It's a deal Pris. Gary Johnson is just asking voters to look beyond their pet single issue, and the subset of social conservatives who would walk out on everything they otherwise want if they can't have their pet issue service catered too as well.
I don't like that Gary Johnson is pro-choice on abortion. But it wouldn't stop me from voting for him if it came down to him vs. Obama.
Others might not like Johnson's stance on drugs or immigration.
I caution against single issue voting because we're not trying to elect an absolutist dictator.
I'm not fully in the Gary Johnson camp, but I want his views considered carefully. He's viable in that light.
I wish we could put Pawlenty, Santorum, and Johnson in a blender and pour out THE antidote to leftism.
Excellent discussion about the gold standard here, thank so much, Bob and Beamish.
It's also interesting to hear Bob's take on the candidates.
I would leave the country now if Palin ran and I was her biggest fan. Sadly, the screechy, passionate female thing has slightly soured me to Bachmann, too, though she is NOT like that...Honestly, I was the most excited I'd been in a long time when McCain picked Palin, but now? STOP, GO AWAY...!!
Bachmann...I want to see her stady and professional and wise and so far I see an intensity in her mannerisms that turns some people off.
As I said earlier somewhere, I can't believe it but I think I'm a female male chauvinist!?
I don't think Newt can take the national election EVER, he has a lot of baggage..as has Romney. And they're too polished and would pale in comparison to the liar in chief.
We need to get someone in with some fire and some excitement...I like Santorum's gutsiness, I really do. I like Cain now, too, but if he's off the beam on this gold stndrd thing so much, I'm not sure...........
Pawlenty is okay.....
I just wish we had two YOUNG guys who appealed to Independents and young people who WILL vote if they're motivated.
I am hoping against hope that more people are turning against Obama than the normal polls are showing; otherwise why would Obama be looking for a BILLION DOLLARS to run? They might know something we don't know. I hope so...I hope he's in dire trouble with the public.
Okay...that was a joke. :-) THEY LOVE him! These are people who avoided PROVEN LIES and voted for the guy with no experience! HOLY COW
Z,
Planning a billion dollar campaign for re-election doesn't look like Obama thinks his re-election will be a shoo-in.
22% of America is under-employed or worse. 15% of America is living below the poverty line. Most of those had jobs and were doing better in 2008.
Who are they going to believe? Obama's slick commercial productions, or the growling hunger in their guts?
money can't buy love
Beamish, had you seen my comment just above yours here? "I am hoping against hope that more people are turning against Obama than the normal polls are showing; otherwise why would Obama be looking for a BILLION DOLLARS to run? They might know something we don't know. I hope so...I hope he's in dire trouble with the public. "
I think they know he's in trouble. We can ONLY HOPE.
I'd click on your link but if it's the Beatles song, I'll have to bang you in the head :-)
Put either of them on the ticket and they have my vote. In a heartbeat.
Hi, Gramma...you can't like Cain and WEst....you're a 'racist conservative'!
Bd...you should have watched the debates but I know you'd never taint yourself with listening to (gasp!) another opinion than yours and CNN's :-)
not that I necessarily think anybody's stupid, of course
@Bob --- It makes absolutely no difference how much gold is in the vaults.
------------
Oh? Then how do you manage balance of payment issues?
The last time central banks behaved badly with their gold reserves it started the wheels in motion that led to WW I. Trivial, I know.
I have one pet issue. Obama gone, and his czars with him.
I'll vote for whoever the nominee is. If people don't vote for someone because of style, or any one issue, while the destruction of the country awaits on the other side, it's over before we start.
I'll make up my mind on the primary candidate as the debates move along, and we hear more of what the candidates have to say. There's plenty of time. We don't even know yet who all the candidates will be.
Also why does "everyone" love West?
He was an officer with no interrogation experience who took it upon himself to have his command beat the crap out of a potential intelligence asset and then he fired his weapon contrary to procedure, compromising the asset.
I know he acted all mucho macho and that makes the right feel safer but his actions had a negative impact. What's the attraction of this not so bright loose cannon?
West has again said that he is not running for anything other than representative in 2012, even if he is black. The democrats have done more than anyone to preserve racism in America than anyone. This subject is a red herring that does not deserve our time or attention. Quit feeding this lie, and it will die a well deserved death. I would not care if Cain were green, orange, or purple. The fact that he is Red, White, and Blue works for me.
Run, Herman, Run!
On money, it's a placeholder and a translator that eases commerce- If I have two chickens but can't find someone with some hay that needs my chickens, i'm out of luck, unless we invent money whereby I can sell my stuff to whoever needs it and then go buy whatever I need from whoever has it. Also, after I convert my chickens to money, I don't need to feed them past prime market weight or further risk them dying before I need to acquire something. The problem arises when the game is rigged by folks (the Fed) who vastly expand the amount of "money" representing a somewhat constant amount of actual value, which makes the value require much more "money" per unit. If the US is worth $1,000 and there's $1,000 of money, everything's fine. When Bernanke then prints up another $2,000 in additional "money", then the price of everything just tripled. This is the biggest reason oil is so high- it is accurately reflecting how much "too much""money" is now in our system. This is why gold and other commodities are a good hedge- their value is inherent rather than assigned, so it remains regardless of the "price". The old adage illustrating this is that throughout much of history, a fine custom tailored man's suit costs about an ounce of gold, regardless of gold's current "value". My commodity of choice is .22lr ammunition. 1) I can feed my family with it, 2) exercise social outreach toward those who can't/won't practice #1, and 3) trade it for whatever else I need. Also very portable, and has a fairly unlimited shelf life...
Pris "If people don't vote for someone because of style, or any one issue, while the destruction of the country awaits on the other side, it's over before we start."
Would that people won't vote for style... it's the ONLY reason Obama got elected.
We did have a November last year that showed that style wasn't AS important as I think it is with the electorate, but I"m not optimistic that people are looking for substance.
Again, I HOPE and PRAY I'm wrong.
Ducky, keep pitching.....I smile here thinking "he really thinks his slams are going to cause what I call are EUREKA MOMENTS" and suddenly we'll all turn into good little socialists and vote his way.
Forget it.
Ed, I don't know who you are or where you came from so suddenly, but WELCOME TO GEEEZ :-)
Santorum and Pawlenty looked about as lively as the mechanical band at Chucky Cheese and about as entertaining.
Well, z, there aren't going to be many voting Republican.
1. Osama's dead
2. The Ryan budget proposal also has rigor mortis.
Bohner's failure to get a pulse of the electorate has him looking pretty sappy. You've handed the election to Obama.
The Florida Republican Party is putting a muzzle on West. Face it, the Tea Party extremists just aren't getting popular backing.
And you're going to nominate the pizza king to deal with the problem?
soapster, you're right; but they're very good men and very intelligent.
As I've said many times here...they're milk toast...Americans want CELEBRITY! Why else would they have voted for THE ONE? very sad commentary.
Ducky, don't kid yourself...people will vote for Jack the Ripper over the guy in there now destroying our country.
I live in Minnesota. I know the real Pawlenty. He's not that intelligent (politically speaking anyhow).
"The era of small government is over. Government has to be more proactive, more agressive." - Pawlenty 2006
"We should take a page out of her[Elin Woods] playbook and take a 9-iron and smash ...the window out of big government." - Pawlenty ...2010
T-Paw was for Cap and Trade before he was a against it.
Flop much?
I don't care, Soapster...........he isn't Obama and that's a good thing.
That's how bad I've become.
EVERY candidate has garbage...you think Romney will find it easier running with the mess of his medical care in MASS?
Or Gingrich with telling a wife on her cancer bed he's leaving her? And the political things he messed up?
Frankly, I was stunned Pawlenty was even running and getting seed money because if I have barely heard of someone political, you KNOW most people haven't heard of that person.
Tell us who you're for?
Tim Pawlenty is funded by Vin Webber. If you don't know who Vin Webber you should. He's a neo-con of the highest order; a signatory to the PNAC document.
I'm supporting the same candidate I supported in 2008 (some dude from Texas). ;-)
he's supporting Pawlenty, and advising his election campaign, that's true.
Pawlenty isn't his puppet.
And, I don't disagree with Webber on everything..
we'll see.
Let's not go that "TX guy" round here again at geez.
there'll be enough coming.
He sure got his clock cleaned at the debates, however :-)
Tim Pawlenty is funded by Vin Webber. If you don't know who Vin Webber you should. He's a neo-con of the highest order; a signatory to the PNAC document.
Ah, a Reaganite. I knew I liked Pawlenty for some reason.
I'm supporting the same candidate I supported in 2008 (some dude from Texas). ;-)
Bummer that Obama had the Navy SEALs kill his foreign policy adviser last week, huh?
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