Wednesday, May 4, 2011

Pakistan is sure they didn't know OBL was there....we can be sure he's dead

UPDATE: So, we're not showing the pictures. I personally think that's a good thing, though knowing Obama thinks it's a good thing, too, doesn't comfort me much :-)   Here's my question now:  If Osama was NOT dead, do you think he'd sit and let the world think he was, knowing our SEALS know he isn't (meaning they'll still go after him?)  I think he'd risk standing in Time Square saying "I'm HERE, they did NOT GET ME!", don't you?  I'm curious what you think.  thanks

thanks, Silvrlady!

26 comments:

Always On Watch said...

IMO, the Paki military knew that OBL was in that compound. Frankly, I cannot imagine that Musharraf himself was ignorant of who was staying in that compound.

The United States was correct not to notify Musharraf of the rain.

beamish said...

We need to tell India that next time Pakistan goes to war with them, we will back India until there is no Pakistan.

Brooke said...

Agreed.

There is no way Pakistan could have been ignorant of this, and if they in fact failed to give us a courtesy call with a heads up then we need to decimate them.

Or, as Beamish said, let India do it.

Z said...

I guess you've also all heard that the NATIVE Americans are griping that GERONIMO shouldn't have been used as a code word for Bin Laden by the operation.........

As an article about the outrage of the Natives includes:
"Geronimo was an Apache leader in the 19th century who spent many years fighting the Mexican and U.S. armies until his surrender in 1886."

'years fighting the U.S. army until his surrender'...I love where Native American loyalties are.
I used to be such an enthusiast of Native American culture, etc., but the last 20 years have turned me so off. Sad.

Z said...

Brooke, we now send Pakistan $3.5 billion a YEAR.
But now with China's and India's power, they're afraid they'll side with them if we stop sending the money.....even if we find they knew (which is difficult to doubt).
The debt to China is greatly more far reaching than 'just' economics.

cube said...

Seems to me that Pakistan is already sidling up to China. Surely the pieces of the chopper left behind are already being examined by the ChiComs. We might as well hold back the 3.5 billion dollars until they prove their fealty.

Mustang said...

I expect Pakistan (and any other nation) to act in its own self-interests. If the Pakis have hoodwinked Washington, the blame rests with Washington, not Islamabad. Our question should be, “How long will Americans continue to tolerate our government’s incompetence?” I know it isn’t nice for the Pakis to take advantage of retarded kids, but we did elect someone who appointed devoted leftist Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. Hell, I’m surprised the Pakistanis haven’t already launched an invasion of the US; if they intend to do that, now is the time.

I agree with Beamish. If we had a government with backbone, Pakistan would be concerned about the effects of 27 US nuclear weapons simultaneously detonating 2,000 feet above ground elevation from the Khyber Pass to Dhrun; they would be somewhat more sensitive to our feelings.

Z said...

Mustang, I couldn't agree with you more.
That's what I mean about the debt to China....we are so weak now since Obama's election; we've shown nothing but appeasement and have allowed ourselves to go into such debt that nobody really knows how to get out of it.
Why wouldn't Pakistan take advantage of that? They can play us like fine violins now "We want your money, or we go with China..." They're probably on a growing list of others who will take great advantage now, too.

Dave Miller said...

Yes by all means let's unleash our nuclear arsenal on Pakistan, as Mustang intimated.

But of course our alliance with Pakistan is much more involved than many would care to consider.

Our aid to this country started in the 1950's under President Eisenhower.

US aid to Pakistan was pretty much shut down under President Carter, once it was determined that they were pursuing nuclear weapons.

In the 80's under Presidents Reagan and Bush, we saw an increase in aid, partly in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

In 1990 Bush the Elder cut aid substantially after the fall of the Soviet union and then President Clinton essentially cut off all aid, send less than 500 million during his admin.

After 9/11 President GW Bush again ramped up aid to Pakistan, send almost 13 billion during his admin.

President Obama has agreed to send 7.5 billion over five years.

Our relationship with Pakistan does not rise, or fall on Obama.

Our government for years has been in bed with the leaders of this Islamic Republic.

If people want to be critical of aid going to Pakistan, fine. But they should know their history and the fact that prior to this cycle of aid, a majority of increases in funding, and letters stuffed with dollars sent from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave came signed by a Republican President.

Z... yes, they knew where he was. The ISI are very sharp folks.

Z said...

Dave, did you happen to see my blog when SAM, the Iranian living in France who is part of MeK under Madame Rajavi, was telling us, time and time again, that our gov't IS DEFINITELY in bed with the mullahs?
You said "Our government for years has been in bed with the leaders of this Islamic Republic."

He's got his reasons; why do you think so?
And what connection would or could you see between SOros and Islamic's fundamentalism/threat to the West?

Sam Huntington said...

Dave’s limited understanding compels him toward partisan debate. No one mentioned Republican or Democrat. Everyone indicated a frustration with government inefficiency. No one intimated attacking Pakistan with atomic weapons: one person merely suggested that Pakistan should understand there could be dire consequences if they allow their atomic materials to fall into the hands of Islamic extremists. Diplomacy does not have to be complex, but diplomats must have credibility. I agree with most people here. The US has none and this is okay with Dave, so long as we can't blame Democrats.

beamish said...

I'm just relieved that there's no such thing as an innocent civilian in Pakistan to kill.

beamish said...

As an article about the outrage of the Natives includes:
"Geronimo was an Apache leader in the 19th century who spent many years fighting the Mexican and U.S. armies until his surrender in 1886."

'years fighting the U.S. army until his surrender'...I love where Native American loyalties are.
I used to be such an enthusiast of Native American culture, etc., but the last 20 years have turned me so off. Sad.


As a descendant of one of the Five Civilized Tribes (i.e. not one of the illiterate savages of the frontier) all I can say is "Geronimo" was the nickname the Mexican Army gave to Goyaałé. If the Apache want to press a grievance over the use of the name "Geronimo," they should at least do us the courtesy of developing a culture that remembers their hero's actual name.

Z said...

good point, Beamish...

Ducky's here said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
beamish said...

Can we be sure he's dead?

Oh, I'm 100% certain he's dead.

I want the photo of his corpse emblazoned across the world as a message to the world. "This is what happens to people who plot the deaths of Americans."

Democrats can keep their 2012 budget plan hidden, and we can speculate whether or not that actually exists.

But Osama's gourd busted? I want that on a T-shirt.

Dave Miller said...

Huntington, comments about backing ones sworn enemy and about the US detonating 27 nuclear weapons above a country do seem to me to at least be intimating a nuclear strike.

Did not Mustang say "If we [the US] had a government with backbone, Pakistan would be concerned about the effects of 27 US nuclear weapons simultaneously detonating 2,000 feet above ground elevation from the Khyber Pass to Dhrun; they would be somewhat more sensitive to our feelings."?

Doesn't that seem to point at the potential for a nuclear strike?

Dave Miller said...

Huntington, what part of what I said was not true.

People may draw their own conclusions, but the facts stand as they are.

The facts of US aid are a matter of public record.

And it was Mustang who injected partisanship into the discussion by calling Secretary of State leftist and suggesting now is a good time to invade the US because our current government is incompetent.

Z. I did see it a while ago, but don't recall much of it.

Jan said...

"As a descendant of one of the Five Civilized Tribes (i.e. not one of the illiterate savages of the frontier)"

Beamish..what a small world. :}

It just so happens that my maternal grandmother was full-blooded Cherokee.

Personally, I don't care, one way or another about the code named used, but obviously some do.

You can't unscramble an egg, the deed was accomplished, and that's that.

I think objecting to that particular code name is just another example of too much PC, anyway.

There would have been some group, somewhere, incensed about any code name chosen. That just seems to be the sad state of our country right now.

I will say, though, that there is not one single member of my family, past or present, that I know of, whose loyalty was not in the right place.

But, I suppose that even that could be a matter of perspective.

BTW...I, in no way, meant this to be contentious, so I hope it wasn't perceived as such.

MK said...

He's definitely dead, no way the US government would make all this hoopla if they weren't sure.

As for the pictures, it's odd that they won't release them because the pics of his courier were. I will add though, i'm certain that even if the pics were released, the conspiracy theorists will find some reason to disbelieve them.

Z said...

Jan, I wish I had some native American in me...I've always loved the culture but have been turned off only these last years by the demands and the victimhood. Thankfully, not all are like that...not at all.
I am so not surprised your family had allegiance to our country before their tribe. Although what wonderful and beautiful tribal customs exist! The headwear, the chants, the healing herbs, etc...wonderful.
By the way, did your Cherokee grandma ever cook Cherokee food??

MK: I think that if bin Laden weren't dead, he has too much pride to let the world think Americans got him, don't you? And he'd somehow come out again and talk?

Jan said...

By the way, did your Cherokee grandma ever cook Cherokee food??

Z...I'm not sure, exactly. I think her cooking was much like what has always been considered, "Southern Cooking," but I do remember that she made things which looked much like tortillas, made from cornmeal, and fried in a skillet.

I know that she knew a lot about herbal medicines, and knew a lot about signs of weather....and I learned, somehow, to know when it was going to rain, by how the air smelled, probably because of how she always explained things to me, and talked to me about so many things.

She was what would be considered 'superstitious' by some, now, but much of it was from her own upbringing, I'm sure.. I was just a little girl, and lived with her until my mother remarried. She was beautiful, inside and out, and taught me many things.

One of the most important things she taught me was how to be kind, and respectful, and one of my most precious memories of her, was hearing her pray, for her children, and for others, and giving thanks to God, as I drifted off to sleep each night.

This was too long, I know.
I do understand what you were saying, and took no offense, because I, too, am turned off by the sense of entitlement from so many, so prevalent in our society today.
xoxo

Z said...

Jan, was she a Christian believer?

The fried thing you explain, I think, is something I've heard could very well be a native American 'bread' type of thing.

She sounds like a wonderful woman; there's a peace that seems to come from loving the earth that one sees in native Americans........very interesting.

Jan said...

Jan, was she a Christian believer?

Oh, Z....yes! I remember walking hand-in-hand with her, not only on the way to church, but through the woods, and across fields, looking for different plants, etc., while she talked to me about Jesus, about death, how it was not to be feared, and about prayer, and the importance of talking to our Heavenly Father. And just remembering all of this, reminds me of how much we both loved the fragrance of a plant called Sweet Shrub, and how we would always look for that....thanks, Z, for once again causing the stirring up of some precious memories.
xoxo

Z said...

Oh, Jan, she sounds just wonderful...
I am under the impression most Native Americans worship the earth more than Jesus so this is wonderful to know about your grandmother. KNOwing you and your faith, I should have known better :-)

I don't know the shrub you talk about...do you have any near you?

My Great grandmother loved Verbena, believe it or not...quite a pungent smell....As a little girl I'd walk with her and she'd pick it from bushes which grew on our street (from dark orange to yellow and light lavender to purple in each blossom) and I'd see all the tiny flowers that made the bloom. I don't like the scent particularly but I LOVE THE SCENT because it reminds me of her and our times together...Make sense!? :-) Oftentimes, when I see it, I won't pick it but I'll grab a blossom of those tiny little flowers which comprise one big flower and just get the strong scent on my hands and keep walking, breathing in great memories off my hand.

Jan said...

I don't like the scent particularly but I LOVE THE SCENT because it reminds me of her and our times together...Make sense!? :-)

Makes perfect sense to me, Z!

Isn't it strange how things like that...a fragrance, a song, the way the light looks during a particular time of day...can stir such memories, and strong emotions?

I haven't seen Sweet Shrub up here, but I know it will grow here

My aunt has it all around her place, and it will be in full bloom when we go there in July, so I will bring some back, save the seeds, and plant them in the Spring...and then when they bloom, the hotter the weather, the sweeter the fragrance!
xoxo