Tuesday, May 24, 2011

Progress or Brick WALLS?..with two updates you'll want to see (sort of!)

Can real progress be made in this country on any subject  How does one forward a conversation into an area of possible progress if, when a Conservative says "But, I don't agree with Al Gore on Climate Change" he's accused of being anti-clean air or water!?  How do we discuss health care and come up with viable when the Left says "Conservatives don't care about the elderly or the sick and simply have no plan!"    How do we talk about helping the poor when the Left says "We will pay for everything you need and the Right won't, so vote for us!"?  Or how about when the Left suggests that, because all of the Right does not support abortion and doesn't want to pay for abortions out of tax dollars, they don't support women? How nuts a conclusion is that?  And then, of course, the lie is that anyone against gay marriage hates all gays.

I don't know a Conservative who hates gays, hates clean water and air, hates and won't help the poor, hates women or wants the elderly ignored.....  I mean, how much sense does any of THAT make?   But, suddenly, when the implications of these things are constantly echoed in the mainstream media or in universities, we have millions of Americans who buy into that and vote thanks to insult, not education.

This leaves NO ROOM FOR BENEFICIAL CONVERSATION AND PROBLEM FIXING.  This just creates a big BRICK WALL.  Do you see that?   This is the perfect storm for liberals;   nobody has to think, nobody has to venture any solutions..."the Right is hateful, and that's that.........what can you expect?"

To have real solutions in America, misrepresenting, mocking and maliciousness by the media and the Democrat machine doesn't help.  Sure, Conservatives try to get their licks in at the Democrats, too, but there's something so insidious and wrong about the conclusions the Left falsely draws in, for example, those points in my first paragraph are something beyond normal Left/Right criticism that's expected in everyday politics. We need to break through that............or we'll continue to be in big trouble.  UPDATE:  Mustang has THIS VIDEO you might want to check out;  it exposes things any media would have CREAMED any Republican for, but NOT their OBAMA!  ANOTHER UPDATE from Born Again American...Check THIS VIDEO out!  AMAZING.  The bias and obfuscation and playing up to the Left by our media reaches levels of almost shock, even FOR ME!

But, what do we do?  Apparently, votes are more important than integrity and even more important than America..

geeeeeeeeeeeeeeZ

49 comments:

The Born Again American said...

Z...
They're finally on to our earth destroying, old people hating, poor people starving agenda...

The brick wall does have a purpose, when used to brick these maroons away from sane people like us...

The truth is, we're never going to change their Jethro Tull "Thick As A Brick" minds, so we who truly are in the majority, must organize and cram our "RIGHT" thinking down their miserable throats... Those that choke to death on it can be considered collateral damage... This is war baby, this is war

Always On Watch said...

Last Saturday, I attended an event at the Secular Coalition for America. No, I'm not a member or even associated in any way with the group; I went to hear a particular speaker give a talk.

Throughout her speech and all around me when she wasn't speaking, I heard this liberal group saying the most hateful and insulting things about Conservatives and Christians. The experience was eerie! The snide way in which these liberal spoke of "the Right Wing Religiously Correct" is apparently the way these people actually think! The impression I got was one of "with malice toward all who don't agree with us and with charity for none who disagree with us."

Born Again America is accurate with the statement we're never going to change their Jethro Tull "Thick As A Brick" minds.

BTW, the people I encountered definitely support Obama, albeit because he's "better" than any other choice available to them.

Ducky's here said...

How do we talk about helping the poor when the Left says "We will pay for everything you need and the Right won't, so vote for us!"?

---------------

We'll even buy you a "welfare Cadillac", correct?

Everything? Typical of the uniformed hyperbole that became popular under Saint You Know Who.

Truth is that it's at the point where left and right want nothing to do with each other.

Cram your "Right" thinking down my throat "Born Again". And AOW wonders why the right is scoffed at.

Dave Miller said...

Z, as I have argued before, there is plenty of hyperbole and bending of the truth on both sides, left and right.

However, as your blog leans more to the right, you focused only on the "sins" of the left in this regard.

There can be no doubt there are left leaning extremists.

Aren't there right leaning extremists too? And if so, what do they stand for and why didn't you include them as part of the problem too?

I see our problem as a lack of balance and unwillingness to consider what is behind the words we sometimes hear and see from each other.

bd said...

No lefty says the right "does not support abortion and doesn't want to pay for abortions out of tax dollars." It's not the point, anyway. The right erroneously and constantly tries to get people to think otherwise to raise fear.

And yes, there are planet of homophobes on the right. In fact, they are all on the right. You really don't know any? Lol!

The left's problem with the right is they are so quick the believe the corporate lies which will ultimately hurt them (and the planet)in the long run. And they believe these lies based usually on hate and fear.

And they believe asinine things like; "the Left says "We will pay for everything you need and the Right won't, so vote for us!"

Z said...

Born Again...
yes, the brick wall they've built allows for no conversation...maybe that's why Leftist Talk Radio "air America" didn't succeed. It's all the same sound, why bother listening? Republicans vary greatly from one to another and that diversity does create a less BRICK WALL'd front than the Left's and probably does allow for cracks in the wall by the left, good point.

AoW: I have an amazing oil painter friend who teaches the rich in our area....including rock stars..to paint... in their homes.(I wish I could tell you who!)
She has a gallery where she shows and can't tell any of her clients she has conservative viewpoints. At one gallery opening, she heard an artist colleague look down from the steps of her showing area at the throng and say "If there are any Republicans here, I wish they'd JUST lEAVE".......ya, that's a true story. My friend lives in fear that people will find out she does not share their liberal leanings. One person found out and she was let go after 27 years working with that painter/client; she thought about what had happened and worked it back to the fact that that client knew the person my friend confided in. GONE. This happened about 3 months ago, I believe.

Dave Miller, I think the story above illustrates my point and why I needn't bother posting about the 'other side''s problems. THey're nothing like ours, that's why.
As I said in my post, the Conservatives aren't easy on liberals on talk shows, etc., but when the Right has dug up information and is criticizing it, does the NY Times pick it up and put it front page, center for all to see and consider? No. :-) (and, please, I know some of the papers do report negatively against some Dems from time to time, I'm
talking here about percentages)

Stories of no consequence or very little interest are on Yahoo's headlines as long as they make the Conservative look bad; I've come on my blog here in 'comments' and covered how many hours a perfectly useless story is STILL on the headlines because it makes a Republican look bad; every other story and ones of more consequence come and go within an hour or so.

When I don't cover the other side's woes it's usually because it has nothing to do with the thrust of my post; my post is about those situations that everyone KNOWS the Left creates: "if you are against gay marriage, you HATE gays" or "if you disagree with Gore, the Right HATES clean air and water"

ABC CBS NBC CNN MSNBC PBS NPR ..Most Big CIty papers (NYTIME LA TIMES< BOSTON GLOBE, etc etc.) ONLY shine a good light on liberals, covering up foibles, and exaggerating those on the Right, you know that. That is the thrust of this post. THAT is what's so very dangerous.
By the way, the L.A. Times had SO many cancellations that they were giving free Sunday papers away at our local large grocery store about 8 years ago...since then, they've actually tried to stop editorializing on their front pages and carrying a few conservative writers. Michael Ramirez (2-time Pulitzer Prize winner), the amazing Cons. cartoonist had to go.
The LATimes now carries a cartoon strip La CUCARACHA I've been considering scanning and posting here so you can see the amazing bias that slips into comics, too....somewhat like Doonesbury is. Astonishing bias, always (ALWAYS) geared against the Right.

Watch ALL IN THE FAMILY, THE NANNY, ROSEANNE, ..you name it; tell me then which you feel don't constantly slam Conservatives, okay?
Thanks, Dave.

Z said...

oh, BD...the same old song again and again.
Hyperbole=the tool of a writer.
SOrry you and Ducky can't grasp that...so sad!
No, I don't mean that taxpayers will pay for "EVERYTHING" but "Close enough"...is that okay with you now? You ACTUALLY don't GET THAT phrase? wow.
"asinine"? REALLY? Is there another reason you promise to keep paying, keep hiring at the gov't level, keep up the freebies the country can't afford other than FOR VOTES? OH, I KNOW...you people are those with HEARTS, but who STILL will never learn that all those poor are the first who will suffer when our economy completely tanks (for ALL of us) because of those freebies we had to pay for. Sort of like when Bush was warning about Freddie and Fannie and nobody cared until they saw he was right and it was way too late ...and, sadly, it's the poor who are first thrown out of the homes they simply couldn't afford. That's a kind of leftism I'd be humiliated to share. But, that's just me. And, of course "I HATE THE POOR", right? :-)

CORPORATIONS are going to KILL US, BD...run for the hills! It's not Islamists, it's CORPORATISTS that are going to get us! RIGHT? :-)
Maybe they should be on the DHS list and we should build walls around corporations and take their many guns away? :-)

Brooke said...

It's all about power, and America be damned.

Everyone has to be their own sad little king on their sad little hill.

Ducky's here said...

Well, z, here's what I can grasp. The right saying "we don't know anyone who hates gays" and then failing to add "so long as they stay in their place and only come out at night".

I wish dialog were possible but you don't seem to understand that saying that Fox is the network that "tells both sides" just stops things cold. There's the wall.

I have no other choice but to believe that when the right states they want to solve problems it means they want everyone to agree with them and the only reason that hasn't happened is that there are people in the media who have different opinions. How can there be discourse when the right feels they have nothing to learn?

Z said...

Ducky, you show such an intense ignorance of FOX that we really can't have the conversation.

When you can link me the countless conservative consultants MSNBC and CNN has on every single day, maybe 1/3 of what FOX has liberal, then please come back and we'll talk, okay?
FOX has editorialists like Hannity and O'Reilly (tho O'Reilly is middle enough that Obama's done interviews with him twice) but that pales in comparison to leftwing pundits calling Sarah Palin "profoundly stupid" on a regular basis.
Also, check out Shep Smith and other FOX people and tell ME they're not giving NEWS, not their opinions. Then watch WOlf Blitzer or Don Lemon or Tony Harris or John King or NBC's David Gregory, okay? :) (actually I kind of like Don and Tony, even through their amazing liberal bias)
How much do I have to do to open your eyes? I just don't get this stone wall........

And, if you understood better, you'd know that HATE is not always linked to disagreement. That's a pretty easy concept, I'd have thought.

Look at ALL that Obama's done in keeping the Right out of negotations, saying "they have no plan" minutes after they've presented them, THEN come back and talk about this.
People on the networks, CNN, MSMBC, 90% of newspapers, do NOT have different opinions, Ducky, would that they did.

Thersites said...

How can there be discourse when the right feels they have nothing to learn?

Like the Left sought any "discourse" when they held the Congress and passed Obamacare over the nation's VERY LOUD, PERSISTENT & VOCAL objections?

You're totalitarians at heart, mr. ducky. That's why you loved Stalin so much.

Z said...

Actually, Thersites, I wish the Right really didn't think it had anything to learn..maybe we could monolithically plod along as a more united front like the Dems do.

Scotty said...

oh, BD...the same old song again and again.

Ducky, you show such an intense ignorance of FOX that we really can't have the conversation.

The original story starts with a hammer but I'll change it a bit.

A man kept beating head head against a wall. When asked why he did it, he said because it feels so good when I stop.

Z, I really don't understand why you continue to feed the trolls. There is NO fertile ground there to plant any seeds.

Mebbe you should go back and read How do you grapple with liberals?

There was a lot of wisdom within some of the comments there!

If ya ignore them, they'll go away eventually. They're just not worth the effort!

Dave Miller said...

Z, the right does plod monolithically...

Voting 100% against the Clinton budget plan in 1996, voting almost 100% for the Ryan plan a few weeks back, demanding total allegiance from politicians so they are not called RINO's, turning on Bush the Elder when he raised taxes and set the stage for the booming economy of the 90's which Clinton prolonged.

Rarely do you see anywhere near 100% on any vote of consequence from the Dems.

But the issue of the Brick Wall is on full display here and pretending it is the sole providence of the left is just wrong.

How can a GOP politician cross the aisle and work with the Dems when his base excoriates him, or her, for compromising?

You are probably old enough to remember when our politicians did that both in California and in Washington.

Do you remember when Reagan pushed through the biggest tax increase in state history with the support of Dems because it was good for the state?

Could that happen today? Or are both sides so entrenched in their views they are unable to move beyond the brick walls?

Maybe one of your readers can tell me what an extreme conservative looks like.

Z said...

As you know, Dave, my post is mostly aimed at THE MEDIA and its monolithic acceptance and push for the Leftwing agenda.
And the way the misrepresent Conservatives who say one thing but get assumed to HATE because of it.

Maybe it's because FOX has more of the Leftwing on than the networks and CNN or MSNBC, but one RARELY sees disagreement between the Dems on MEET THE PRESS, for example, trust me! But, you sure do see Republicans discussing issues from different sides...do they have to be extreme? I don't think so.

When Reagan pushed through the tax increase, apparently it WAS good for the State or the Dems would never have accepted it. When Conservatives see Obama do something good for the country and within the limits of the Constitution, I know they'll do the same.

It's the lies, Dave, the misinterpretations and wrong conclusions the leftist media accuses the Right of that has to stop because there are many Americans who really don't look into the truth; If you don't think there's a "Republicans are terrible, Democrats are always right" attitude here in our mainstream media, you're not reading or listening. Watch any TV show or movie and catch the constant innuendos. That's the brick wall I'm referring to.

Z said...

Scotty, I have often said I don't want a Conservative Echo Chamber here. Although I detest the fact that I built this blog and give leftwing trolls a place to spew, there are those, like Dave Miller, who I like having here because he thinks, he's civil and moves the discussion forward, not shutting it closed with lies or nastiness like the others do.

I've lost readers who've emailed me they're sick of Ducky and won't come back, and I understand that, but...why Ducky and other leftwingers come here is a mystery and they get deleted when they go too far, unless I want my readers to see just how far lefties can go...sometimes, that's beneficial for us all to see, I think. I don't delete often but there's a limit.

thanks for the advice, I do understand your sentiment, BELIEVE me. I had to change formats here in Comments because of another blogger... the next step would be moderation, which I may do, but not right now.

What really makes me laugh is when the lefties call me names, accuse me of being stupid, and then accuse me of CENSORSHIP when I delete their amazing nastiness. That shows a LOT, doesn't it? :-)

Scotty said...

Scotty, I have often said I don't want a Conservative Echo Chamber here.

On that I would agree.

there are those, like Dave Miller, who I like having here because he thinks, he's civil and moves the discussion forward, not shutting it closed with lies or nastiness like the others do.

I agree again. But, Dave is a rare bird in the world of blogging. Especially among those that lean left, he IS civil. We all don't have to agree but I'm all for civility!

I've lost readers who've emailed me they're sick of Ducky and won't come back, and I understand that, but...

They are the ones that lost, not you.

I want my readers to see just how far lefties can go...sometimes, that's beneficial for us all to see, I think.

Most of us know how far they're willing to go. One just has to watch the news.

What really makes me laugh is when the lefties call me names, accuse me of being stupid, and then accuse me of CENSORSHIP when I delete their amazing nastiness. That shows a LOT, doesn't it? :-)

If was in their power, they would silence you in a heartbeat.

BTW Do you see that Harry Reid is now slamming President Obama for his thoughts on Israel.....who'd a thunk that!!!

Z said...

Harry Reid is doing that, huh? Miracle of miracles. Finally, a "disparaging word"......

Poor Bebe...he knows darned well that a Palestinian State will mean nothing; their children are hardwired now through their parents and cartoon propaganda to hate Jews, PERIOD. You don't change a generation or two of Muslim kids any easier than you change a generation or two of American indoctrinated kids.

Z said...

I should have attached the video BRICK HOUSE by the COMMODORES (I think?)....that would have at least made us all happy while we read and argued!

Ducky's here said...

That gas video isn't very interesting, z. Of course candidates are going to use the price of gas as an election issue.

The right uses it to push "drill, baby, drill". No? However, neither side bothers to determine if this is a supply problem and if it is, is it a shortage of crude or gasoline (refined product).

So all these cute little videos get passed around and we learn exactly what?

Z said...

Ducky, you're showing some kind of incapability to understand that I can't help you with. The videos make excellent points.

Also, if you're bored here, PLEASE go elsewhere...
thanks so much.

Scotty said...

->me<- sitting in the corner, snickering.........

Chuck said...

Duckhead,

I wish dialog were possible but you don't seem to understand that saying that Fox is the network that "tells both sides" just stops things cold. There's the wall.

Every poll, survey, and analysis about media bias shows more balanced reporting at Fox. Show me one that does not

Dave Miller said...

Z, regarding the video from Mustang and the supposed media slant, I might raise some small dissent.

How do conservatives explain the view presented by many media watchdog groups that found that the media in the run up to the Iraq war was in fact cheerleading for the war and the Bush administration?

Certainly later on the media became more critical of Bush, but early on in Iraq, with imbedded reporters and wanting to be supportive of our soldiers, they were at worst silent apologists.

All of this is a matter of the public record and can be found in many places on the net.

The point being, that the press when they were enamored of Bush, gave him the same treatment Obama seems to be getting now.

Are there many media outposts that are center left for the most part? Yes. Just as there are many that are center right, although maybe not as many on the national scene with the same credibility.

Mustang said...

I agree with Dave; both parties are capable of political hyperbole. Dividing Americans is precisely what political parties intend. Politicians and government apparatchiks benefit from a divided people.

Our problem isn’t that conservatives, moderates, and liberals are having a dialogue about the future of our country. The problem is that the communist faction in this country has hijacked the Democratic Party and made it into the progressive left. Speak plainly here: progressive means communist. They’ve been doing this now for the past 80 years, and they’ve resorted to the most hateful tactics to achieve their goals. Part of the reason for this division is that it is impossible to have a conversation with people like Ducky. The man is a Saul Alinsky broken record … patriotism is hateful to him. So too is service to one’s country. So too is individual liberty and the right of all of us to be free from government tyranny. The man is the phlegm in the throat of Joseph Stalin.

I agree with Z … year after year I’ve noted that one either agrees with Ducky (and a few other similar vermin), or one is a “far right” Christian whacko —simple-minded people who cling to Bibles and guns. Connecting the dots yet? The only people who can dialogue with Ducky and his ilk are the Brown Shirted party thugs who they would rather see running this country.

Bd said...

Z said: "maybe that's why Leftist Talk Radio "air America" didn't succeed. It's all the same sound, "

Nope the reason is Leftys are generally more educated (sorry, but it's true) and they don't need to be constantly screamed at, or need the fear based talk radio of the right. Also....big corporations OWN America, they don't advertise on lefty stations since they may criticize them

Bd said...

Mustang, get a clue, huh? You are the quintessential out to lunch wingnut with your clueless 'communism' crap.

Joe said...

Ducky: "Typical of the uniformed hyperbole that became popular under Saint You Know Who."

No...who?

Mustang said...

It is true: there is a limit to genius, but BD’s capacity for ignorance knows no bounds.
What is it that Marx listed as essential to a communist state? Centralized banking, government control of education, government control of labor, government control of transportation and communication, government control over agriculture and industry, abolition of private property, heavy income taxes, eliminate rights of inheritance, and centralized planning. What a surprise! This is exactly what progressives want for America, too.

BD needs more than a clue ...

Z said...

Dave, you're a smart man but suggesting there are 'just as many' on the right is NUTS :-)
Yes, I have never been able to figure out why the media backed the Iraq war, I totally agree with you.
By the way, the media was 'enamored' with Bush while they were peeing in their pants after 9/11....it lasted three months or so and then they backed Iraq because so many Democrats backed it, I suppose.

To read "media enamored by Bush" is pretty funny, Dave, honestly, with the incessant bashing they did for 8 years!


Dave, find me another newspaper or cable or network that's not left of center. Other than FOX, which is toward the Right but ALWAYS has leftwing opinion respected and tossed around.

Z said...

BD, THAT's the reason! The left is so much smarter? Aha...that's why.
Thanks!! (I'm laughing so hard here I can't really respond but you do take the cake for hubris and ego!)

Please make sure you read Mustang's comment to you.....and then please deny :-)

Z said...

NETANYAHU

this is a test

TonyFernandez said...

Much of the conversation that goes on about politics is more red herrings and straw men than actual debate. A lot of learning is passed up because we allow pride to get in the way of our ability to listen and share reasonably.

Z said...

Tony, no doubt about it...but blogs are about taking a stand and this one does....we hope for civility but we don't always get it.
thanks for coming by....I'm in LA, too...very near where you teach, according to your profile. VERY near.

Bd said...

Mustang said: "What is it that Marx listed as essential to a communist state? Centralized banking, government control of education, government control of labor, government control of transportation and communication, government control over agriculture and industry, abolition of private property, heavy income taxes, eliminate rights of inheritance, and centralized planning. What a surprise! This is exactly what progressives want for America, too. "

I think you need to read some history my friend and then take a look at how corporate America are running this country. Then then maybe turn off Fox News? Lol!

Jen said...

The Left is more educated???

seriously?

Wait. Are you being serious?



I seriously cannot tell if this person is joking each and every time he/she comments.

I propose that bd is a freshman at a state college, and just finished up poli-sci 101.

p.s. bd, don't believe everything your bitter, dried-up professors tell you. It's a BIG world out there! ;-)

Z said...

Jen, I know. See "turn off FOX news?" It's so unutterably dumb that one doesn't know what to do with it. the mantra is taught and regurgitated shamelessly.
I'm starting to think I know who Bd is, by the way. I wouldn't have really expected it of her, but I'm getting fairly sure.
Kind of keeps it fun.
Like watching Maddow or Matthews and seeing them foam in liberal outrage! :-) what a joke!

Dave Miller said...

Z, the Wall Street Journal, Drudge, Washington times, Newsmax, Media Research Center, Weekly Standard, World Net Daily, Town Hall, New York Post, etc...

Also, if you reread my post, you'll see I said "many" not just as many... a subtle but important difference...

But Z... part of the issue seems to be that neither side is able, or is just unwilling, to say what is extreme from their side of the aisle...

BD and Ducky, what does an extreme liberal look like? How left is too much?

And Z and Scotty, what does an extreme conservative look like? How right is too much?

Scotty said...

And Z and Scotty, what does an extreme conservative look like? How right is too much?

That's an easy one, Dave, the Paul Family.

Bd said...

Z said: "Like watching Maddow or Matthews and seeing them foam in liberal outrage! :-) what a joke!"
Show me where Matthews and Maddow lie.

MK said...

Everywhere you turn in the western world, the group holding back real progress is the so-called progressives.

The only way around it, is for ordinary people to pull their heads out of their ass, wake up and start ignoring what liberal trash have to say.

Dave Miller said...

Scotty, The Paul's while part of the GOP, are more correctly labeled Libertrians.

But I think I was looking more for specific policies that extreme conservatives advocate.

I bet some of the extreme positions the Pauls advocate, like legalization of drugs, are actually the same as extreme liberals, albeit, from a different bent...

Jen said...

Show me where Matthews and Maddow lie.

May 25, 2011 6:56 PM
-------------

This, bd, is called being "willfully blind".

Jen said...

Does vitriolic hyperbole count as lies?
Just tune in for five minutes...

Z said...

Jen, Ed Schultz is suspended for a week for calling Laura Ingraham "A right wing SLUT"

These are people who disgust decent, thinking Americans.

Bd, I'm getting to think I know who you are and it's pretty stunning. Not surprising, but.....

I'll be deleting you soon...you're boring us all. At least Ducky engages in conversation. I really feel sorry for you.

Scotty said...

But I think I was looking more for specific policies that extreme conservatives advocate.

I not sure what you're looking for Dave, what I may consider extreme may be somebody else norm.

If you're looking for me to tear down some conservatives in particular, I won't do it, I'll leave that to blue blood snob republicans.

Chuck said...

Bd, Show me where Matthews and Maddow lie.

I can only assume you are joking. If you are not, google either "Rachel Maddow lies" or "Chris Matthews lies"

And this is on liberal google

beamish said...

Maybe one of your readers can tell me what an extreme conservative looks like.

Have I been gone that long?

Z said...

BEAMISH! You CRACK ME UP!!!