Tuesday, May 3, 2011

Osama...let's shake it up a little

Do YOU think Osama should have been given a sea burial with the Koran being read in English and Arabic?
Do you think we should show his picture, dead, to the world?
Do you think our SEALS will ever be allowed to talk about the maneuvers?
Do you think Pakistan knew he was there?
Do you think we paid Pakistan to be allowed to go in?
How much of the real story do you think we're hearing?

Tell me...I'm really curious and have questions, a lot of them, myself.

Thanks.

59 comments:

Beth said...

I won't believe it is true unless there are pictures of the actual body, not pictures of something wrapped in a white cloth getting thrown into the sea.

Always On Watch said...

Do YOU think Osama should have been given a sea burial with the Koran being read in English and Arabic?

Okay by me. I believe that any deceased should have final rites.

In OBL's case, those final rites should have been followed with feeding him to the hogs.

However, a sea burial itself is not Islamic; the body is supposed to be returned to the deceased's place of birth or, at least, his homeland. Also, a mujahudeen's body should not be washed.

Do you think we should show his picture, dead, to the world?

Yes!

Do you think our SEALS will ever be allowed to talk about the maneuvers?

Yes, but much later. Security and all that.

Do you think Pakistan knew he was there?

Definitely!

Do you think we paid Pakistan to be allowed to go in?

Not specifically. But we give Pakistan millions in aid.

How much of the real story do you think we're hearing?

Not all. See Steve's recent post. Steve does have Navy sources to check with.

A lot of what we're hearing is designed not to rile up the Islamic world. Good luck with that.

FairWitness said...

Burying Osama at sea? No opinion.

Show pictures? Yes

Video of operation? NO!

Will SEALS be allowed to talk? NO!

Pakistan knew? Absolutely YES!

Pakistan paid? Don't know, but since it was a secret mission, I would hope not.

Real story? Yes I do think we're being told the real story.

Dave Miller said...

No problem with the funeral.

Not sure on the photos. If you knew that releasing the photos could cause our soldiers harm, would you release the photos?

But even in saying that, I know most libs argued for the release of the Abu Ghraib, even though President Obama resisted that argument.

Besides, will it make a difference? Those that are determined to stand alongside lefty nutcase Cindy Sheehan are determined to not believe anything the government says.

Do we need the SEALS to talk about what they did? Might it put their lives in jeopardy? I don't need it, publicly at least.

Did we pay Pakistan? I doubt it.

Did they know? It doesn't seem like it.

Z said...

Dave, wasn't Abu Ghraib under Bush's watch? You should go look at Wikipedia's piece on Abu Ghraib
...they have SO much superfluous meterial that's more and more damning, it's clear they're slamming the military terribly. I almost broke into the unnecessarily details to cover the story.
I am always amazed at the differences in coverage on WIki and on Snopes...If Snopes doesn't like to admit the Right was correct on something, they don't put ACCURATE or TRUE, they put something like "POSSIBLY" with reasons why it probably didn't happen in the face of the facts that are given...:-)

It seems there are naysayers that he's really did and that's why many feel they should release a photo of osama dead but I think that's disgusting, myself. Anyway, as I"ve said before, with his ego, if he isn't dead, we'll be getting a video any minute.

I believe the funeral at sea is problematic because it gave whining muslims a chance to be outraged that that isn't a typical muslim custom. I guess beheading and leaving heads of American bodies around is what they think WE have for burial customs? Imagine what islamists would have done had we GOD FORBID lost David Petraeus or something over there? A Christian burial? But, we're supposed to be better than they are and we did a burial at sea and still don't get a hint of "you showed respect"...I think it's an insult to our 9/11 families to have treated him with such respect, myself, but don't know how better to have done it..maybe consulted a muslim on our side to get input (which maybe shows there aren't any? ;-)

Beth, you really think he's going let people think he's been killed by Americans if he hasn't been? the Arab mind doesn't 'go there'... it's all pride for them and he'd be humiliated.

FW, my Yahoo homepage has had the photo of the 'team' watching this whole thing come down from the WHITE HOUSE now for a day. Obama looking very presidential..etc......boy, are they in campaign mode: Obama AND his media!!

AOW, for our people to think America can do ANYTHING that won't 'rile up the muslim world' is insane and evident to everyone BUT 'our people in charge', apparently

Z said...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden_hunt_for_bin_laden

we keep quiet anything that might bother the muslim world and we advertise exactly what helped us catch Osama:
Memo to Al Qaeda: Watch our news reports than make sure you don't do THAT again, you'll get farther in your terror plans.
Unbelievable. I've posted on that point and will add this link I just found to it. How troubling. Information that needn't and shouldn't come out, in my opinion.

Ducky's here said...

I think we found episodes of The Jersey Shore on his laptop.
Obama was a big fan of Jenny Jwoww.


Did Pakistan know? Of course they did.

Ducky's here said...

Who directs the movie?

Oliver Stone.

Z said...

Ducky, for someone who disdains popular culture, you watch junk I've never heard of!

cube said...
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cube said...

I find it disconcerting that we release information on the methods we use to apprehend these criminals when it will become a primer for them to avoid being found next time.

Yet, we're handwringing over
releasing photos that might inflame moslem sensibilities?

Please, these islamofacists exist in a state of perpetual outrage already. Are they going to chant "Death to America" again? Oh no, not that!

I want every terrorist to worry about a similar kind of raid coming to their house tonight and will they get to their human shield in time.

Z said...

cube, three days ago, I used that exact word PRIMER to describe how we give Al Qaeda what not to do next time....I almost posted it an hour ago, then thought I'd like more responses on this piece ...
The article I wrote will show how Germany doesn't do that...interesting juxtaposition.

I think we're far more afraid of Islam than they are of us and I think that's ridiculous. We need to show that we lost respect for Osama when he murdered thousands of Americans.

Scotty said...

Do YOU think Osama should have been given a sea burial with the Koran being read in English and Arabic?

I have no problem with this. I only hope they put a few pieces of bacon in the wrappings.

If it was a military chaplain officiating the burial Z, you’ll find that what they did was mandatory. The chaplains in the military have a lot more rules and regulations than would a civilian minister and they would be required to follow those rules.

It might be interesting to know if it was indeed a Muslim chaplain as, military chaplains are required to know all the flavors that reside in the military as so often in war a protestant might be required to offer last rights to a Catholic soldier, if a priest wasn’t available and vicey versey, because the other wasn’t available.

I also think the water burial was a smart move. It doesn’t leave a grave for the followers to worship their martyr at and rally around.

Do you think we should show his picture, dead, to the world?

Yeah, probably. Just for those that like to make conspiracies out of everything. But, I think most folks that want to see the pictures are the same ones that would slow down to look at the accident on the side of some freeway.

Do you think our SEALS will ever be allowed to talk about the maneuvers?

If they’re smart they won’t, for obvious reasons.

Also, you’ll find that often folks that have dealt with rigors of combat are generally not willing to re-hash the experiences. Except to, sometimes, other combat veterans.

Despite all the training, there is nothing that can prepare one for the actual trauma that war brings. What one sees on the silver screen about us combats vets, has little to do with reality. Often times the effect of that trauma doesn’t manifest itself until years later. It’s called P.T.S.D.

Do you think we paid Pakistan to be allowed to go in?

We can only speculate, we may never know the truth. But, I don’t think Pakistan is really an ally. Certainly not in the sense we would have seen in WWII.

Z said...

Scotty, first reports were that the Koran/muslim service was read in ENglish and then Arabic.
I did wonder about that....on a ship full of Americans. Sure, there might have been a muslim chaplain, in which case I'd have thought he'd do it in Arabic and they'd drop the body into the sea.
Seemed odd to me to do it first in English.

Scotty said...

Seemed odd to me to do it first in English.

As one who has been in the military, it doesn't strike me as odd one bit. The chaplains have to walk on egg shells for fear of not offending anyone....it's just the way it's done.

I would guess that the military assumes that there may be Muslims there that don't speak Arabic. If you're looking for a reason, that would be it.

An Air Force chaplain did the opening prayer last night at the reunion I mentioned earlier. It was SO generic.

Mark said...

1. I do not think Osama should have been buried at sea. As I said over at my place. I don't think he should have been killed in the first place, but now that it's too late for that, I think his body should have been placed in a public place with a 24-hour video feed until his body rots into dust.

2. Yes, I think the picture of his dead body should be displayed. With his body being dumped at sea, there is nothing to prevent conspiracy theorists from claiming it's all an elaborate hoax. Remember, they didn't find Hitler's body either, and to this day many people think he lived on in South America plotting his revenge. By the same token, we have no doubt Mussolini was dead. We had pictures.

3. Not legally.

4. I don't care.

5. Possibly. Obama wouldn't have any qualms about dealing with our enemies, either.

6. Anybody's guess. But, understand, you can always tell when Obama is lying. It's when his lips are moving. Obama

Mark said...

Sorry. I don't know how that extra "Obama" snuck in there. It is NOT, I repeat, NOT my signature.

Major said...
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Ducky's here said...

@z -- Ducky, for someone who disdains popular culture, you watch junk I've never heard of!

------------

I have to in order to be able to translate Beamish.

Major said...
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Leticia said...

You know what I think? I believe we should have buried him alive while a building burned and fell all around him. Give him a taste of the terror he inflicted on the 9/11 victims.

He did not deserve a proper burial or to honored in any manner or form. He was a brutal and merciless murderer and did not deserve that small rite.

Z said...

Ducky, feeling lonely for Beamish?

Z said...

NOW the news on the radio was that Osama wasn't armed...it sounded precariously close to their implying the hit wasn't fair, that we shot an unarmed person. We should have given him a chance, I guess? Like he gave those on 9/11? MAN!>
Sometimes you feel like you want to reach through the radio and strangle the stupid news reader.

Ducky's here said...

This is being analyzed too death to know good result. Pakistan was sheltering the maggot and Obama too executive action. bin Laden's dead.
So we report that he sleeps with the Islamic fishes. No reason to stir up the loons any further.

But remember, al-Qaeda will be defeated or grow depending on the outcome of the current movement in the Middle East. Notice that nobody is burning American or Israeli flags or waving Palestinian flags. They just want an end to this dictatorial crap, some of which we have facilitated but we get a second chance here.
We can continue to act like fools and wet ourselves at the mention of the MB and play into al-Qaeda's hands by blocking change (ironically because we fear the very entity it will defeat). Big chance here and we may not get one as good for a while.

Mark said...

"NOW the news on the radio was that Osama wasn't armed...it sounded precariously close to their implying the hit wasn't fair, that we shot an unarmed person"

But then, Obama would be the bad guy. The press says he was the one who authorized the attack. If Osama was unarmed, that would not be good press for Obama, and we know the press would never admit he might have done anything amiss.

Finally, I am inclined to believe the text Major posted. I don't believe Obama would have done anything like this on his own. He had to have at least been pushed.

Z said...

Ducky, you think islamists are going to suddenly realize they lost a leader and turn nice?
I agree that this is being exploited by this point.....the facts are in, if they change, fine, let us know...in the meantime, we've got a country to save and terrorists to foil if we can.


Mark, the media only cares about implying America's bad; if Obama gets thrown under a bus for once, he deserves it. I just couldn't believe that implication of his being unarmed. Most reports still say he fought back even though the last information is he didn't. Also, I wondered about that because they said there was a 'firefight' for forty minutes. If they popped OSama the minute they entered his room, before he could grab a rifle, I'm wondering who else was in this supposedly very intense firefight that was reported?

They're saying now that some Wikileaks info might have prompted this; I don't know if the jerks actually revealed where Osama was and we feared he'd leave or what.

Z said...

I've been giving this a lot of thought and I've decided that if I ever thought anything was wrong, it's releasing dead pix of osama.
Imagine the photo shopping that will happen?
would you want your picture, dead, issued to the world? (not that I give a hoot what this man liked or disliked, but..)
Does anybody think that Osama is still alive and liking everyone thinking we concurred him?

Tell me what you think....

tha malcontent said...

By the way, did you heard that Obama wanted to Sleep On Making The Decision of going ahead with the raid! So he took 16 hours for him to finally decide to go ahead with the mission.
He left the room and keep all those military commanders and the Navy Seals hanging while he said he would 'sleep on it' before taking 16 hours to give the go-ahead to raid Bin Laden's compound. So much for Big Brave Rambo.

Always On Watch said...

Malcontent,
Not doubting what you've said. But do you have a link?

Always On Watch said...

Z,
IMO, releasing photos won't make much difference -- to the hardcore doubters or to Moslems themselves. In fact, we might garner a bit of respect by disrespecting OBL. Islam respects "the strong man."

Obama has said that the world is a safer place without OBL. I disagree with that statement. Killing one jihadomaniac doesn't make the world a safer place. Of course, his death is symbolic, particularly for the 9/11 families.

tha malcontent said...

Sure I do.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383010/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Obama-took-16-hours-make-mind.html

And

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-dead.html

Ducky's here said...

No, z, what I am saying is that if we don't pay attention to the movements in the Middle East and help them succeed as best we can we will leave the likes of al-Qaeda some leverage.

Muslims HATE al-Qaeda. The rejection of al-Qaeda by the insurgency in Iraq because they were seen as worse than the Americans was the primary reason the surge was successful.

Sam Huntington said...

1. Sea burial doesn't bother me, but the fish might complain

2. Sure ... that should keep photo-shoppers busy for months

3. No. The operation was classified

4. We could assume that the Pakis was ignorant of bin Laden's presence, but in order to do that, we would also have to assume the Pakis are dumber than Keebler Elves or Obama's cabinet

5. No, it was a residual from the $7 billion our government paid Pakistan a few months ago.

6. I think we are hearing what the government wants us to know.

Sam Huntington said...

Oh, and how could photoshop pictures of a dead bin Ladin be worse than the photoshop pictures of a naked Ted Kennedy?

Always On Watch said...

Sam said:

We could assume that the Pakis was ignorant of bin Laden's presence, but in order to do that, we would also have to assume the Pakis are dumber than Keebler Elves or Obama's cabinet

LOL! LOL!

Always On Watch said...

Malcontent,
Thanks, and thanks for putting those links at my blog.

Mr. AOW had heard that bit of news, but I hadn't.

Thanks again!

Major said...
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Major said...
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Z said...

Ducky, I wish we all understood as well as you seem to that "Muslims hate AL Qaeda"...

A Persian friend just got back from 2 wks in Iran....I asked her how they feel about Americans and she said they love us but they will never understand why we didn't help the students last Summer; They were ALL stunned at that because they thought they had our support.
Also, everyone she spoke to wishes the Shah was back and they despise Khomeini and Ahmedinejad. Sort of like when Ms Z, my stepdaughter, does work in Caracas so often...she told me her colleagues despise Chavez so I told her to ask the taxi drivers and waitresses, the poor...but BE CAREFUL how you ask. She said she did and they all despise Chavez, too. Amazing when you get the news firsthand.


AOW....you said "Islam respects "the strong man."
I need to add that my mother was raised in Cairo and it's more that ARABS respect only the STRONG MAN...EVERYTHING is PRIDE and MUSCLE...EVERYTHING.
Yes, while hot head kid islamists will go nuts at seeing their leader with shots in his head, I'd say most Muslims are thinking "Crap, they carried it off..what the..?"

They've forgotten the great America that has waned the last 2 years.
I felt SO TERRIBLE to hear Persians are upset with us about the student uprising/ I don't like to consider that we had our chance of helping REALLY dangerous places out (dangerous to US! and Israel, etc.) and we dropped the ball.
I remember Kenneth Timmerman spoke here in LA about 8 yrs ago and we went to hear him....he said our CIA and others have been planning student uprisings for a while...maybe last summer was the one.
And we dropped the ball. how AWFUL.

SAM: What naked pix of Kennedy?

And yes, imagine seeing Osama photoshopped as disgustingly as some Americans might be prone to do? I don't find that helpful to anybody.
Actually, I was googling images and saw a Statue of LIberty cartoon with her hand up holding his dripping head!!

Pris said...

Part of me would have liked to see Bin Laden hanging, bullet ridden, from a bridge like the Americans whose bodies were hanged that way in Iraq.

Or dragged through the street like our Blackhawk Down soldiers in Somalia, naked and dead while I watched on TV, sobbing at the sight. Bin Laden was in Somalia at that time btw.

And then there's 911. People throwing themselves from windows, falling to their deaths rather than burn to death.

Three thousand innocent lives gone, in fire, or crushed to death. We saw it all, and yes again I sobbed.

So, yes, I can stand a photo of an animal called Bin Laden whose been shot in the head, and this time no tears. No regrets.

The American people deserve this confirmation, and yes, the satisfaction.
So do the 911 families of the dead.

As for the burial at sea, I object to the islamist observance over his body. That's a sign of respect. Are you kidding?
I hope the sharks like that lunch.

If we back down from showing his photo, we embolden the enemy. Weakness is an invitation to these barbarians.

They'll hate us in any case, but if we show weakness or claim sensitivity, they'll believe they can hold us hostage with threats, and would do just that. If that happens, they win.

We either fight or surrender. There is no in between. No nice way to fight.

We can't allow the enemy to dictate what's acceptable. If we do, we have to ask who's in charge? Us or them?

Mustang said...

Our government drops the ball too often to suit my tastes. I don’t like the idea of the US government organizing Persian students to demonstrate, and then hanging them out to dry. But this is what the USA has consistently done since it became a leftist state. It happened in Vietnam, San Salvador, Iran, and Iraq; it is part of the incompetence I often refer to in my posts. What shocks me is that anyone in Iran would believe anything we said. The US has no business stirring the pot in Iran. When the people become tired of their repressive government, they have two courses of action: get used to it, or overthrow it.

Z said...

Pris, I'm usually the last one to even care about "We're better than them..." but in this case I'm against pictures...
I totally understand your points...who doesn't HATE this man for what he did?
I'd rather we threw him out a burning building from the 100th floor than publish pictures of him with a bullet hole in his head.

Mustang, I just shudder to think Timmerman was right, that we WERE there stirring the pot then dropped them in the mud.
Timmerman used to spend a ton of time there and is very well connected; good sources, etc.
I've never heard ANY group I've been in to hear someone speak which left a room so quietly and absolutely freaked out of their gourds...businessmen and women,e tc.... because he described how simply a nuke can be lobbed from a boat off the East or West Coast that would do a LOT of damage...he admitted there were unworked out glitches but they weren't insurmountable and BOY, that group was pensive on the way out.

Bob said...

I think we are hearing what was prescribed by our government. Yes,high level Pakistani's knew about UBL's situation, and I believe UBL was whacked. I don't care about anything else, and I am sure the entire story will be out, eventually, no matter what is intended.

Z said...

Hi Bob, I'm not real clear on what you mean here, but I'm glad you came by and I loved your blog profile about the dogs! I hope they're still cute and you're still happy with them!

Major said...
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Z said...

Major, I sure don't see why, but if that's your final decision....
did someone offend you? I didn't see it.
Good luck, I hope you come back some time soon.

Impertinent said...

Thanks Major.

While I think you might be a bit...for most....ummmm...passionate....I understand it.

Most....don't know except for what they read in the Times, the Post or Hot Air.

Like me!!! A vet too. Like Mustang...a vet too...like Jingo...a vet too.

Major said...

Thanks Mz. Z....I'm exhausted.

I've spent too much time in my life to now have to engage the other "enemies".

I just want to drink my beer....live what life I have left....and forget....forget all this shit.

You know my thoughts...my positions.

And once more...hats off to you for the privilege and honor of using this forum and my throat to spew my bilge.

Bye and God Bless you.

Z said...

Major, sometimes I feel exactly like you do....
Especially today, as a matter of fact.
How much more angry can we get? How much more can we share opinions? How much more leftist idiocy did I open a blog to have to host and read? How much does a blog hostess have to take from people who call me 'uncivil' and 'unfair'...when all they have to do is LEAVE?
How much?
there are days I'm WAY past it...I hope you decide to visit from time to time, at least. For as long as I'M here, anyway!
xx

beamish said...

Charlie Sheen. Navy Seals winning, duh, Ducky.

beamish said...

How much of the real story do you think we're hearing?

Good morning, Mr. bin Laden. We'd like to ask you some questions about the files on your flash drives.

See, our first question is, how much pain can you take before you barf up the key to this encrypted file? Don't worry, we already know the answer. Cracked it around four hours before we rounded up Zawahiri. Oh, he's alright. Wonderful singing voice.

Now, the world thinks you're dead, so it's going to be awful hard to get a lawyer to take your case.

We just want to know how much pain you can take. Me and the fellas got this betting pool, see...

Elmers Brother said...

Dear Westboro Baptist Church:
We have a funeral you can protest. It's in Pakistan. We'll help you pack.
Sincerely, AMERICA

Always On Watch said...

Z,
while hot head kid islamists will go nuts at seeing their leader with shots in his head, I'd say most Muslims are thinking "Crap, they carried it off..what the..?"

And the Islamic concept of the will of Allah should not be discounted.

Some of the ummah leaning toward supporting AQ will now re-evaluate their beliefs.

Z said...

Elbro, good one!

Aow....let's hope

Jen said...

Dear Westboro Baptist Church:
We have a funeral you can protest. It's in Pakistan. We'll help you pack.
Sincerely, AMERICA
-----
Amen to that, ElBro!


No to the pictures. I don't want to see riots in the streets of Syria with terrorists holding up pictures of a dead OBL. If seeing his dead body would motivate young men to join AQ, then better to leave it alone.


Do I think he's still alive? No. I shy away from conspiracy theories.

Burial at sea? Eh. Looks like they tried to please everyone by reading from the koran and giving him a non-islamic burial. Works for me.

Did Pakistan know he was there?
How could they not?

Did we pay Pakistan? indirectly, it seems.

Bob said...

Z: Sorry about being vague in my previous post. My point is that it the whole UBL killing doesn't mean much to me. It is a good thing, but will mean less and less to the world as time progresses.

My opinion is that there is always another leader ready to go, and that leader may or may not be in Al Queda, but maybe in Yemen or Egypt. It ain't over, and won't be for along time.

By the way, I cannot sign into your comment section with my regular blog url. I had forgotten that I was going to blog about our weiny dogs, it was a long time ago.

How can I sign in with bob@spuriousmissives.com?

Z said...

Bob, do you mean where clicking on your blue "BOB" will bring commenters to another blog than the dog one??
I have no idea, but maybe someone can help you if they see this.

I know longtime bloggers who have had trouble changing like that...what they've done is lead people to their other blog FROM the one we see when clicking on their screen name? Am I reading you right, is that the problem?

YES, on your comment; I had a hunch that's what you meant...sorry!
Yes, this won't last long in the news; It surely isn't going to outdo the stinking economy for Obama, though 11% more people approve of him today than they did the day before Osama bit the big one :-)
Sure, I think it's great this happened, but to suddenly approve of Obama as he takes this country down? notsomuch!

beamish said...

Put me in the "show me Osama's damned death picture" camp. My computer monitor needs new desktop wallpaper. I'll the image on coffee mugs and t-shirts. I'll wallpaper my friggin' apartment with it.

After the last near-decade of humilating Americans at the airport, even to the point of molesting innocent children boarding airplanes to keep up the appearance that we're not profiling Muslims for terrorism, and releasing photos of coffins of our fallen returning from Iraq and Afghanistan for the gleeful propoagandists on the left and in Islamofascist circles, after al-Jazeera TV aired the entirety of the Daniel Pearl beheading video throughout the Middle East, one of the last things I could muster giving a FUCK about is sensitivity to Muslims. Do they believe Osama Bin Laden represented Islam or not?

Show us Osama Bin Laden's splattered brains. If it inspires outrage and threats from the Islamic world, send SEAL Team 6 to shut them up.

koolbob73 said...

Now, I am logging into comments with a different login.

bob