THIS article, other articles I've read on the subject, and the television coverage about Penn State's scandal is getting on my nerves. I'm getting the impression that all of Penn State must suffer because some horrid people did really bad things. The rapist SCUM Sandusky did wrong, Paterno seems to have done wrong, the President did wrong........but I'm getting from the students in (unending) TV interviews that they feel that they and their whole school are guilty. And to watch some TV coverage, you'd think so, too. But they ARE NOT. A SCHOOL doesn't do bad things anymore than a GUN shoots people. The KIDS did nothing wrong, they're innocent students who knew nothing about all of this. Yet, it sounds like they're carrying guilt for the few really guilty ones.
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP)—The Nebraska and Penn State players gathered at midfield before the game, kneeling together for a long moment in a quiet stadium.
NOW what? Will there be another scandal about how players invoked GOD in a public school setting? man. If that can make enough conversation on TV news shows to fill time between advertisements, it just might. I'm sick of all this crap, pardon the expression.
SOME PEOPLE did unspeakable things and they need punishment. The school does not, the students do not, the coaches and teachers who knew nothing do NOT need to be made to feel their school is anything less than it was two weeks ago. I even just saw some dope on FOX, named Jehmu, talking about something like "corporate university complexes"...with the same hate this liberal would spit the words Military Industrial Complex! I swear! As if this horrid incident speaks for ALL universities? That was her definite implication.
What "legs" is this story going to grow? And does the student body deserve this? Do we need to hear every ugly detail? Is this story being covered with integrity?
z
26 comments:
There is speculation that the story is going to get wores. That the young boys were pimped out by Sandusky to high rolling donors.
Penn State has been quite happy to promote its "by the book" football program and rake in the 70 million dollars the football program produces.
Then -- whoops.
Everyone up the line was dirty. There is no way that something this serious in the football program wasn't known at the top.
Time to have Paterno walk and take this legacy with him. Time to accept what the University ignored.
The Universty was wrong just as the Catholic Church was wrong. You don't chalk it up to a few bad priests and let it go. The Church was wrong, Penn State was wrong. Tie to accept it and stop the silly rioting over what happened to poor Joe Paterno.
I think if the students hadn't rioted, and stopped to think about the man who'd gotten away with this for years and his victims, Penn State wouldn't be in this position.
Joe Paterno was an icon, with a sterling career. If he had said, early on, when he found out what was going on and reported to the administration he could no longer tolerate working with Sandusky, and an investigation should take place, things would be different today.
He did not do that, he punted, and now, he too is remiss in doing the right thing. As is the University.
As with all things the truth comes out, and those who want to wear blinders as Paterno did, and hope bad things will go away, learn the hard way.
Several young boys were assaulted, and justice wasn't sought, it was brushed aside. That's unconscionable.
I'm sad that the students have less regard for these young victims, than they do for those who were responsible for seeking justice, and an end to this tragedy.
Elbro; and the students still shouldn't bear the brunt of this.
Ducky, I know, a successful school bugs you...anything successful bugs you.
The university students are no more wrong than Catholics who had nothing to do with the priest scandal. Which, if you read my post, is the point.
I don't know who you're talking about as far as 'tieing' to accept anything; if anybody thinks Paterno did the right thing, they're dead wrong.
Pris, As they said on TV today, we can look back over the last few days and realize why the students stood up for Paterno; they're young and none of us knew the entire story.
The students supported Paterno with knee-jerk affection and a refusal to believe he had anything to do with this....and they did show utter support today for the children who were assaulted as was seen at today's game when they raised $22K for abused children, had a fly-over, and all wore shirts about child abuse.
The school traded successful football for child abuse. Are the students responsible? Only the ones who fail to realize the complicity of those in charge, including JoPa.
Elbro, I think by now that the kids have heard all that we've heard and they get that Paterno's done a terrible thing....
I really feel for those kids who love their school and are stunned by the awfulness of all of this; and am sorry that I can't make my point as clear as I thought it was.
I also think it's a shame that Sandusky's gone on the back burner and Paterno's the one sounding the most guilty in most accounts I read; they mention Sandusky then go on for paragraphs about Paterno's complicity.
I believe Sandusky is the monster of this story and that anyone who knew about this and didn't get him arrested was dead wrong.
Imagine that fellow who actually saw them in the act? THAT guy needs to be charged, too.
Z, I agree that the students and athletes did nothing wrong and do not deserve scorn.
As to the school, I disagree. This was a complete and total institutional level breakdown. They covered up the rape of several children for the sake of a football program. The coaches (Paterno and the graduate assistant) chose their careers over protecting a child.
There is strong evidence the school is rotten to the core.
I get the feeling too that we have not heard the last of this. If some of the rumors are true, you ain't seen nothing yet. It is not impossible there were more people then Sandusky abusing these kids.
Chuck, I couldn't agree with you more re Paterno and the school (the pres was fired, too)....I'm not sure how many knew it was going on, but we'll find out.
Sadly, this kind of scandal lowers this country in many ways we can't even know yet. THe CLinton scandal, for example, awakened children to thinks they hadn't needed to know and, frankly, adults don't need the constant negativity and ugliness of people with disgusting character thrown all over the newspaper pages and TV screen, either.
This will get worse, I guess, from what you and Elbro are hearing; I haven't heard anything about pimping or anything like that.
I really feel for the students and athletes; it's a great thing to go to a school like Penn State and love your coaches and feel that wonderful feeling of belonging to something great.
Not quite so great anymore, but there is still so much good about Penn State that isn't touched by this; professors who are good teachers, kids doing well in classes, other types of athletics and clubs etc etc......
Get the scum out, prosecute to the full extent and get a good president in there who has his priorities straight. And please let's not have a year now of ugliness every single day..
I understand Z and you're right the students don't deserve this.
I still think the students had no call to riot, which is what they did. They called attention to the situation in the worst way they could.
Since when is rioting a first reponse to bad news, and why does being a young adult give them a pass?
That's what everyone saw on TV. Students rioting. So it's only natural for people seeing this to condemn it. It drew more negative attention to the university, and God knows it was already negative enough.
Paterno's getting more attention and criticism because he's famous. But I can't forget he worked with Sandusky after knowing what he had done.
He had enough pull at that University, to insist Sandusky had to be removed and accountable. Penn State would have succumbed to Paterno's demands given his reputation.
This will pass and things will go back to normal for the students. Maybe they learned to know all the facts before they go haywire. I'm sure the scuttlbut was going through that campus like a wildfire anyway.
I agree Pris...but my guess is they don't represent all the students and perhaps generalizing about the whole student body wouldn't be the right way to describe it. (you're not doing this btw)
OFF TOPIC:
I just had to include this in a comment somewhere:
I just had dinner with a young guy from Pepperdine University; he said his American history class's textbook was amazing....it doesn't mention the CIvil War or the Revolutionary War. He said it's mostly about slavery and the Indians, to the point where his buddy said "Hey, do you get the impression they're on the Indians' side?"
An AMERICAN HISTORY CLASS in a university which doesn't talk about the Rev. War or the Civil War? THIS is what our kids are getting these days.
Duncy
Will the person who rationalizes sexual abuse at Occupy Wall Street give it a rest. How many lefties like yourself demanded Daniel Ortega face justice for molesting his step daughter?
Ducky is a world fraud. There are plenty of stories of educators in leftists unions. The media feeding frenzy never gets around to members of left wing unions
Z,
You must check out The Pagan Temple's post on this topic.
The school did cover up -- long term.
Hamlet as metaphor for the mess at Penn State: "Something's rotter in the state of Denmark." And it corrupts the entire state!
Well, you know. America's Universities are the hotbed of political correctness and Liberal wussification. It is, therefore, not surprising that the students feel they should share some of the guilt.
It's another form of white guilt. Feeling somehow responsible for things other people did.
I'm sure, in the future, many people will be judged not job-worthy on the basis of the stigma attached to Penn State.
It's crazy, but this is the way Liberalism operates.
Z, I definitely do not think we should indict the student body or professors, they had nothing to with it.
With that said, they don't get off of the hook quite that easy. The protests, the threats against the assistant coach. There is a "win at all costs" mentality there that, while present at all colleges, is disturbing right now at PSU.
This may also be an indictment against all of college football. I made this point at my blog.
A radio host (who actually reported in April on a rumor of Sandusky raping children on campus) made the point that there was something odd about the Sandusky retirement. He was a good coach with a national reputation, he retired at age 55 which is fairly young still in college football, yet no one else offered him a job or tried to coax him out of retirement. This is quite unusual in a situation like his retirement. The radio host speculated that word had gotten around about his "indiscretions" and made him untouchable. If this is true, a large portion of people outside of PSU knew about it and no one said anything.
Elbro, you're right. Of course it wasn't the entire student body who rioted. Unfortunately, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the barrel.
College football in general is a cess pool of corruption. Penn State gets caught-I have no pity for the 'poor innocent students and their school pride.'
OMG! Hell must be freezing over, the rapture happened, and Elvis is performing live in Las Vegas, again. Something momentous must have happened.
Ducky is right.
An institution like a school, church, fraternity, LaCross team, etc. is only as good or moral as its community and leadership. The Catholic church perpetrated its pedophilia for centuries, and everybody ignored the rumors. The German people ignored the stories of genocide, and pretended to live a normal life, but they really knew what was going on.
The civil populations of entire European countries sat idly by and let the Germans collect, transport, and slaughter millions of Jews, gays, gypsies, and anybody thought ugly or undesirable. Have you noticed the nascent antisemitism in Europe, today?
How many coaches and players at Penn State heard the rumors and didn't ask about the situation. How many administrators at Penn State heard about the allegations years ago, and let it go for the good of the school?
As I point out in my blog, Penn State actually has a history in covering up unpleasant events, or even whitewashing investigations in the school's interests.
Sure, the students are not to blame, and it is unfair, but nobody is tarring the students with the blame for the immorality of Penn State's administration. Unfortunately, some karma will rub off on anyone affiliated with the school.
Good grief! Did I just agree with Ducky?
Sandusky's autobiography is entitled "Touched."
Um, yeah.
Hey Liberal Dude
You are aware that actual rapes take place at Occupy events. Sorry, but using a symbol from a group that tells people not to co-operate with the police and tolerate molestation
makes you a hypocrite.
Bob "The German people ignored the stories of genocide, and pretended to live a normal life, but they really knew what was going on."
I'm a bit of an expert on this subject, if you don't mind my saying so, and I will not argue it because there's far too much background to include in showing otherwise, but this is very overstated and context matters.
DOn't worry..you agreed with Ducky, but you also agreed with nearly everyone on this thread but me.
I do see the kids' grief and embarrassment at the college of their choice and I feel greatly for them all.
Z: It is Monday afternoon, the sun is out, and I will have the fun of taking care of my grandchildren this afternoon. Yesterday, I guess I was a bit confrontational.
I actually agreed with you, a little, by saying that it was unfair for the students to share in the shame attendant to the Penn State scandal. On the other hand, the student riots demonstrated something pretty ugly.
Perhaps there is a book, or books, you can recommend about German society during the Third Reich. My reading includes the books Auschwitz, Albert Speer's account, and Hunting for Eichmann.
The Eichmann book chronicles the massive logistical effort of corralling hundreds of thousands of people in different countries, disposing of their property, transporting them across Europe, settling them in concentration camps, killing them, and disposing of the remains. It is a horrible story, and there had to be hundreds of thousands of civilian witnesses to the proceedings.
Since you lived in Germany and France, I believe you would have a good feel for these things I am only guessing about. Am I wrong that most people knew something really bad was going on?
Hi, Bob, I know you agreed with me on most of the Penn State thing; and I agree that some kids shouldn't have become SO upset but it looked like, that first day, that Paterno was being blamed for something he hadn't done..and they flipped out because he's their HERO.
NOw that more truth is out, I doubt if they'd overturned the car, etc...
I just feel so badly for those kids...they picked a college, they go into debt to go to a college they can be proud of, and now this.
As for Germany, yes I have lived there, my husband was German and he had a colleague who wrote a book that's almost 3" thick about GERMAN RESISTANCE FIGHTERS, something my American textbooks didn't discuss when dealing with the horrid time in German history. We don't hear about them but the book is a single page for each one; from old men to children! MANY women, too.
I'd read the latest Speer biography if I were you .... God, I wish I had the energy to tell you about meeting a steel magnate from Vienna whose parents knew Speer well. what a story. I mean, they had Mrs Speer and all the children to their vacation house in Italy for many summers while he was in prison and there's much to tell...but not here.
Bob, I Know that many Germans did know ...they couldn't not know SOMETHING when train after train went by, but your comment sounded so hateful toward them and TRUST ME, I hope you know me enough by now to know I'd NEVER EVER EVER be apologetic for Germans or anybody INNOCENT PEOPLE(!!!) but we need to remember what would have happened to those young mothers on farms if they'd gone to the Gestapo and demanded to be told WHO IS IN THOSE TRAINS GOING THROUGH THE FIELDS AND WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT TO THOSE PEOPLE?
etc etc etc.
A gorgeous book is KNIFE IN THE WATER by Ursula Hegys (sp?)....a novel about village life just before WWII...how closely German Jews and CHristians lived together. ..so happily, so trustingly. People didn't hate each other until Hitler!
Hitler was a MONSTER and pursuaded the weak minded that the Jews were to blame for many of G's problems, but MANY GERMANS would have NEVER approved KILLING THEM!!! NEVER!
THere's a stone in Germany where the letters of a brother and sister are etched..letters to their parents, saying good bye before they were killed for having distributed anti-Hitler brochures. They were called THE WHITE ROSE (Die Weisse Rose) and they're esteemed very highly in Germany and always were.
YOU know about the attempts on Hitler's life..it wasn't just von Stauffenberg, it was HUNDREDS of German army officers who were poised to take over the office they were assigned to the minute they got word of von Stauffenberg's success! Only he failed, as you know. I had the GREAT HONOR to stand exactly where he stood when he was executed in Berlin...on the exact spot. Goose bumps; I just got teary remembering that. THAT Man put his life on the line, didn't he.
MANY don't know that he wasn't alone nor the many other attempts at Hitler's life.
Yes, some Germans knew, but most either did not know or did not WANT to know.......I ask you to look at your neighbors tomorrow and ask yourself if they'd pushed for the truth if they knew they could die for even asking.
it's a complicated story and one I don't know well, either but I remember a dinner party of mostly Germans, at our home in L.A....an American history student at USC asked a dear German friend of ours, an older man, some questions about the holocaust and showing all she'd learned...Mr. Striegel answered politely until he'd had it and said "YOu can't know if you were not there."
I remember that often.
Z: It is easy to throw guilt around, and I am guilty. I appreciate your opinions and stories and respect them. I will try to get some stories/studies on the effect on the German people, but it was a long time ago and good research may be hard to find.
Speer's biography is one point of view, and Eichmann's story is written from the Israeli's point of view. It is hard to imagine anything in between.
From a personal point of view, I can say that I have thought about the Nazi's campaign against Jews, and I cannot say for sure if I would been a hero in defending them given an interest in defending my own family.
The whole scenario is scary, and we must oppose the Obama thought police. Can you believe that Obama tried to disqualify Fox News as a legitimate news agency? This is the megalomia exhibited by Obama and his Marxist fellow travelers.
Bob, that's a lot of the point; the point about what WE would have done under the same awful circumstances.
I do hope you find as much as I know's out there in Germany on the "Wiederstand" or RESISTANCE there.
I don't believe Speer's bio is slanted TOWARD the NAZI's, by the way; it's pretty good, straight history.
Obama hates FOX and is so classless he'd insult them as illegitimate; anybody who doesn't adore him seems to be illegitimate.
I guess you heard Pelosi called CBS rightwing?!!
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