This is the political part of emails a friend and I have sent back and forth the last week or so. She's an America from Florida who now lives in Munich and Samos, Greece, where she has a gorgeous home on top of a hill overlooking the WHOLE ocean (if it's not the WHOLE ocean, it's a TON of it!!!) She's an extreme liberal and you all know what I am. I got her response this morning and wanted to share our exchange with you and wondered if you might share anything similar to this that you're experiencing with YOUR FRIENDS who don't think like you do. I usually stay quiet, but I'm done. Here goes:
Last Monday from Greece: "how are you both? what's happening in your part of the hemisphere? how are people reacting to the nomination of obama? of course i was hoping for hillary. the news on this side of the world paints a bleak picture of the states, economically and of course with this last trip of dubya's, they are saying we will concede little to this very little man- ( the last being my sentiments as you probably guessed )"
From Z, 4 days later: "I don’t really care too much about what Europe thinks about Bush…Europe’s only English speaking info is from CNN Int’l and the New York Times’ Herald Tribune…When the Europeans get honest news, I’ll listen and I’ll care a bit more. Let’s not talk about politics. The only thing I will tell you is that so many of my conservative friends are telling me their Liberal Dem friends are whispering to them that they can’t vote for Obama, but “don’t tell anybody”. Actually, they were saying “either of the Dem candidates” but I’m not so sure they wouldn’t have voted for Hillary in the end. You see, the media and our professors have made it not ‘wrong’ to vote conservative but ‘Evil”, something one must hide. Thankfully, even liberals are starting to see what’s happening. Europe’s voting against socialism, more every day, and America’s sliding into it. You can’t make this stuff up! I hope that’s enough said. I stay quiet, as you know, and am only saying anything now because I’m kinda tired of staying quiet with my liberal friends. I have as much right and dignity and validity to my feelings and stance as any liberal does."
This morning from Greece I got this: "as for the political thing... i know we don't see eye to eye on that, but i appreciated your candor and wanted to know what's happening on that side of the country. i could only judge things by floridians and i find them living rather unrealistically in palm beach with huge houses, swimming pools and luxury autos, but they too alluded to not voting for obama despite being democrats, that was scary for me... more or less putting things back to an era i thought we were overcoming."
And, no, of course I will not pass by that "era I thought we were overcoming." I WILL respond.
Oh, I got another email the very same day I got my friend in Greece's first email discussing politics. This was from the widower of a dear friend of mine who I've also kept quiet to in regard to politics because we both know we don't see eye to eye... but lately he's sent me SO much anti-Republican stuff and I've swallowed it out of respect for my dear girlfriend who died: This time, I finally'd HAD it! This email was that Anti-Republican YouTube thing you've probably all seen by now .."...and I LOVE prohibiting people who love each other from having rights, so I'M voting Republican...and I think women have NO RIGHT to their own body, so I'm proudly voting Republican.." Well, with that, I'd HAD IT and dashed off THIS response ....
This is so stupid, Noel !!
EDUCATE yourself, for Goodness sake! Do you KNOW how many liberal Dems are confiding in me they can’t vote for the Democrat this year!?
I’d have never sent you this, and I hadn’t sent things in the past like this about Dems, in order to preserve our friendship.
God save our country, Obama is going to drive it into the dirt. Congratulations. You, Hezbollah, every socialist-indoctrinated college student, islamists, illegals, and the society we’ve made which feels entitled to government help is supporting your candidate. Must feel reassuring, huh? Congratulations.
EDUCATE yourself, for Goodness sake! Do you KNOW how many liberal Dems are confiding in me they can’t vote for the Democrat this year!?
I’d have never sent you this, and I hadn’t sent things in the past like this about Dems, in order to preserve our friendship.
God save our country, Obama is going to drive it into the dirt. Congratulations. You, Hezbollah, every socialist-indoctrinated college student, islamists, illegals, and the society we’ve made which feels entitled to government help is supporting your candidate. Must feel reassuring, huh? Congratulations.
And, no.................Z has NOT heard back from NOEL yet!! uhoh
You experiencing anything like this?
OH MY GOSH..this MUST be MY DAY! Just got this from a cousin in NYC:
"Z…We will differ again…I had enough Republicans to last me a life time. As for John McCain…he is truly the last resort. I admired him as a war hero and that is about it. Once he became the candidate and I started to pay attention to him I threw my hands up. He is awful and truly a puppet for the party. As for Obama…I would rather take the chance and hope for some good to come from the mess over the last 8 years. How any president will be able to clean up after what this administration has done is beyond me. I knew Bush was bad but he even outdid my expectations. As I reading Carl Bernstein’s book about Hillary Clinton, I continue to amaze at how father Bush was as much a deceiver as his son and I actually liked him as president. So, in a nut shell…I dislike them all, but the Republicans are out on this next round for me. Oxox J…"
HELP!!!!! z
35 comments:
Good for you, Z. I admire your courage of being honest. You are correct, it usually is best to remain quiet and change the subject if you wish to maintain the friendship. I find myself doing it more and more though it's hard.
I really have lost so much respect for a bit of my family over politics. The far left - and every family has them - have no shame in labeling those with different opinions as stupid, racist, whatever. They are so self satisfied in arrogance it is maddening.
Thanks, Karen, I guess I feel more emboldened because we must speak up more now that we could be faced with Obama.
I thank God most of my family is conservative...so I don't have that issue with them.
The problem for me now is that I'm starting to look at politics as the judge of someone's intelligence and their character. How anyone can think a man with this little experience and such duplicity and bad choices in friends, etc., should be PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES is astonishing and almost a deal breaker for me and my friendships...I think this is a character defect in ME, quite frankly. I know they feel at least that disdain for my beliefs and values and they have every right to that feeling.
It's a horrid situation. I also fear that we could have real problems if Obama loses. Immediate problems, people reacting violently...... I hate what's happening.
My conservative friends say "I'm not going to vote for Obama. His leftist associations with fringe radicals, his lack of leadership and experience, and his Winnie-the-Pooh foreign policy is a joke."
My liberal friends say "I'm not going to vote for a n*gger."
as you know, nearly my entire family are liberal democrats - i've distanced myself from them by about 1700 miles and have never been more at peace.
even at my dad's funeral last year, there were those who wanted to engage me by attacking my conservativeness - i just walked away.
my children also had to hear my uberlib mom say, "if abortions or the pill were available in the fifties an early sixties i wouldn't have had any dayamed kidz!"
AT MY DAD'S AFTER FUNERAL LUNCH!
they don't care about the feelings of others.
i'm just reminded of the bible verse which tells us to not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers - guess the same goes for political affiliations.
i'll probably NOT vote for mccain, but i dayamed sure am not voting for obama!
nanc, someday, some way, somebody's going to have to explain to me how not voting for McCain is not handing a vote to Obama.
(not you, STeve..I know how you feel and I still think you don't get the numbers! sorry!)
Changing a left-wing mindset (or a right-wing mindset) is about as likely as a politician keeping a campaign promise. But it is possible to pursuade someone from the moderate left to vote for McCain. Zee is right, we need to keep trying. The worst thing that can possibly happen to this country is an Osama presidency. We've already seen how House democrats want to socialize/nationalize the oil industry and health care . . . and this isn't my imagination.
Wake up America! And as for Zee, I'm proud to call you my friend.
Mustang! you probably commented just as I was adding to my original post my cousin in NYC's email she just sent me.
Honestly? I thank you for the honor of your friendship, but if I don't see some REALLY GOOD NEWS soon.... I'm really quite bereft. I can barely watch television news or read anything on the web anymore .... And then to get this latest email (added to my post) from a cousin to whom I responded with the following? (she's never one to not have the last word so I'm sure her mind's spinning with what I wrote and I WILL hear more);
"J, Let’s just say I’d NEVER have written this to you.
Secondly, I’m no Bush fan.
I’m stunned that anyone with a brain and love of America could vote for Obama.
The media’s winning. Congratulations.
God help us all. Z"
I NEED A LIFT!!! Time to post a joke??!! xx
Beamish: You have liberal friends?
I'll get you a pet rock, man!
pet rocks are sure more fun, Brooke..trust me.
It's tough, but it helps to know what these people think. Which is, mostly, NOTHING. Still, they're going to vote and MOST of these people, so far, still like Obama.
Sadly, as I've said here, I can't really consider these people FRIENDS anymore. It's one thing to ignore the other's politics and just stay off the subject to stay friends (tho their character is questioned, which, as I said, is a character flaw in myself as politics don't make the WHOLE person, BUT..)..it's another thing when they send emails they know are going to tick you off, especially the kind you've seen a million times and read all about and you know they're sending it so you can have an "AHA! IS THAT RIGHT?" moment and vote Democrat.
I get a lot of those...as IF.
Living in Southern California, I see cars all the time with Obama bumperstickers and a few with Hillary. Have not seen a single one for McCain.
All of my clients are rich, liberal Jews and followers of the NYTimes, CNN, LATimes, 60 Minutes, Maureen Dowd, Seymour Hersch, etc.
It's hard to escape hearing someone slam my president on a regular basis. I engage only when comments are said either directly to me, or said knowing I'm within earshot. It's amazing how many people here simply assume they can say anything against Bush, and not meet with disagreement.
Wordsmith, I'm nearby Santa Monica...I sure do understand what you're saying. Everyone around here bashes Bush as if you couldn't be of a different opinion..just not possible to be smart and differ with them.
It's like Pauline Kael of the NYTimes said "How could Nixon have won? I don't know anyone who voted for him!" Wikipedia says she didn't say that..they say she said the below quote instead. SEE WHAT I MEAN?
"I live in a rather special world. I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don't know. They're outside my ken. But sometimes when I'm in a theater I can feel them."
She could "FEEL" people who'd vote for Nixon. Nice, eh?
z - I'm back and wrote a comment to your comment.
I don't know what's going to happen if Obama is elected, but I can't imagine McCain is elected.
Wordsmith, I live in So. California too, and haven't seen one Obama bumpersticker. I do live in a fairly conservative area.
I am planning to get a McCain sticker though. A lot of folks are just plain afraid to put a Republican sticker on their cars.
I know my husband was worried about me driving around with a Bush sticker in 2004, but I told him, "this is still America, and I'll be D---ed if I'm going to let anyone intimidate me".
Concerning liberal family and friends; If they don't bait me, I won't bite. If they do, all bets are off.
Z, good for you. I'm also proud to call you my friend.
Pris
first, let me say that NOBODY has fought the obama and hitlery campaigns harder than i - i've been in hostile territory where people call me everything but a white woman since last august while most people have stayed in their comfort zones - i don't want to see obama or mccain in the white house, but my fight is not with mccain.
i'm taking heat right now for a post i made at the 'tort for obama throwing the izzie-mamas under the bus.
if i don't talk him up it's mostly because i've found it extremely difficult to ESAD.
this potus has caused me such grief that i'm done with that.
why should i pretend that i like mccain? i'll vote for him, but it will be a total grudge vote - why do people have such a hard time with that?
when did we become so p.c.?
and there's NFW i'd EVER put a mccain sticker on my rig - i'd sooner get a tattoo of a pink baboon arse on my forehead!
we all gotta do what we gotta do, as for me, I gotta vote for John Mccain, No question about it.
DD2 Debonair Dude the Diplomat!
Well said. If my friends and relatives would JUST let me alone!!! (for politics, anyway!)
nanc, you said you'd probably not vote for McCain, that's all...I guess we all feel a little that way......
And ya....if anybody's fighting the good fight, it's YOU!
Nobody around here's too pc, believe me! xx
Z,
Your cousin's email reminds me of a telephone conversation my husband had with his brother when M. Moore's Farenheit 911 came out. He actually insisted several times that my husband had to go see it. My husband would change the subject and the brother would bring it back up. It was incredible. His brother is in quite the liberal fantasy world - a ferry ride from Seattle on the coast of Washington state. He's a musician and stuck in the far left politics of the 60's.
karen, The Pacific NW is known for goofy lefties......sorry about that!
I just can't believe anyone would be that certain your husband should see Fahernheit but at the same time refuse to see the truth about Obama! What a world. "I SEE NOTHING!.."
face it - we're settling, once again.
God help u.s., z.
nanc.....you couldn't have said it better..
Brooke,
I do have liberal friends. They appreciate the fact that I remind them constantly that they're morons.
You see, without me, they'd go through life not knowing that they're morons, and too stupid to figure it out themselves.
They in turn supply me with insider knowledge of what it's like to be an imbecile. It's a fair arrangement.
Wellllllll, since most of my family and inlaws are nominal christians(at best), they don't have anything to do with us...so they won't discuss ANYTHING with us...one LARGE group of leftistas and "moderates" who leave me alone.
I live next door to an AF base, and close to the Cape...how many leftistas among; engineers, hazmat handlers, and former military do you think there are?
The closest was a neighbor(who has some serious drinking issues), if he'd been tippling, he could become abuse about politics...but he's in Ohio now...the druggies I avoid!
Refreshing!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
Good for you, z! I work in a highly socialist environment; many of them have migrated over from the U.K. and other parts of Europe and I was literally being drowned in their godless trash every day. I prayed about it and suddenly on the picture came a young student that we haven't seen for a while...a client that we can't really offend. And guess what? Despite being half-French, he's the most loud and proud, pro-McCain, anti-European, pro-American I've ever come across. He lives and breathes right wing politics and guess what? All those leftists have shut their silly mouths and I don't have to listen to their garbage any more. What's more, this guy doesn't let up and he says it all loudly and with a smirk on his face as if daring any of them to take him on...ha.
Good for you for standing up and giving back a bit Z. Personally i'm like you, i avoid talking about politics to liberals because most of them don't have much idea of what's really going on. Most of their thinking is based on half-truths and half-assed theorizing from other liberals.
The few times i have spoken about politics to them, i usually just throw a few facts in and leave it at that, makes em think. Unlike liberals, i'm happy for them to think the way they do and make up their own minds. I don't have this yearning to make every one think the way i do and i don't consider a position only valid when everyone agrees with it. i suppose in liberals eyes, that makes me some sort of totalitarian or something.
It happened to me, big time. I went a couple of years ago to see an old buddy of mine retire from the navy.
I didn't know that over the past few years, he had become a liberal overnight...we got to his house the night before and all he could do was slam Bush and everything conservative...I was stunned. The following day I told him how I felt. I was honest, but not upset in any way.
He hasn't spoken to me ever since. To hell with anyone who acts this way - if you're friends with someone for a long time and then something stupid like disagreeing over politics occur, then maybe the friendship wasn't worth much to begin with.
Well, HERE IS THE RESPONSE I GOT THIS AM (It has me a bit down, I must admit):
"Thank you for your nice response to my other E- Mail This will be the last E-Mail you ever get from me, I am removing your Address from my computer. Hope you will the same with my address."
My response:
"And could you blame me, really?
I was so surprised you’d abuse our friendship like that. I’ll always wish you the best but that last one was too far…I’d stayed silent a long time."
Now, I'm going for a walk and licking my wounds. He wasn't a close friend, but I adored his wife, my friend of many years who died 2 1/2 yrs ago, and I'd promised myself to stay close to him for her and I'd put up with a LOT of lefty emails tho he knew where I stood... :-(
Aurora..wonderful when we get what we prayed for..and in a Frenchman! I lived in Paris for 4 years and was amazed at how many staunch conservatives there were, and America supporters!
Beamish..EDUCATE them before this election! ANY of them whispering to you they can't vote for Obama, or are they just too far gone?
TMW....you're lucky to be in that environment!!
MK....it is difficult to talk politics with people who just won't SEE, isn't it. It's amazing to me to learn that either Americans don't CARE that they're about to change this country forever into a Socialist state OR they're too dumb to see it..
Steve..thanks..I think we had built a relationship around the dear woman we'd both lost (his wife and my friend of over 30 years)...it didn't work. Thanks for the reminder.
Well...I'm sad about what happened this morning, but I guess it was bound to happen.
Your support REALLY helps, guys. thanks.
Z, Maybe your good friend's widower in moving on after his wife's death, made a decision to cut ties with the past and all that entails.
Perhaps it's less about your politics and more about letting go. This may have been just an excuse to do so.
Just a thought, my friend.
Pris
Nice thought, Prisc, but it's not that. That, I know for sure.
Anyway, it's done now. thanks..xx
Z,
You can't fix stupid.
The Democratic Party will never draw less that 40% of the vote no matter who is the candidate.
Beamish, I guess you're right.
Liberalism seems to me like something's broken in a person....or they don't know what America's really about, or they don't care about the future.
I just can't figure out how supposedly bright people I know are so enamored with this CHANGE. It's like they hate Bush so much, nothing else matters...
stupid, is right..
think of it as thinning the herd.
MORNIN'!
*8]
nanc...you've got such right thinking. I appreciate that. 'thinning the herd'..
nice.
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