A very conservative Black girlfriend told me she's seriously considering voting for Obama.
Another Black girlfriend tells me she agrees with most of my political stances but can't vote for a Republican because it would be like letting her family down.
A Black conservative poster I've known for years at Frontpagemag.com is also telling me he probably won't vote for Obama, but he's excited by his presidency and won't say 'no' yet. HUH?
Armstrong Williams, J.C. Watt....both are giving Obama a better look than I'd have thought they would, even considering voting for him. I just don't understand the thinking of Michael Varner in this article! It's a good but highly troubling read. So's this, whose mission statement says how decisive the Black vote can be.
But, I think this, from the linked article, says it all: "I tell my friends, my heart is with Obama, and my brain is with McCain," Ivory says.
Here are smart, educated conservative Black Americans who're considering voting for someone as unconservative as you can get. Are they giving up their principles for their emotions? Could this really be happening? This stuns me...does it you?
50 comments:
have you been to political mavens lately? one of the writers there did a very good post on obama and condi - trust me, they're going to hang together. if he is somehow voted in (which i highly doubt), and condi is part of his scene, i'll not be surprised - he's deserving of that b*tch and all her baggage - she is no friend to israel which makes her no friend to me.
it doesn't matter with dhimmicrats - they're all about NEW, HOPE, CHANGE, ANYTHING DIFFERENT!
as for your anonymouse poster - check your sitemeter. he doesn't know how to say "niglight" - that's an inside joke between my sister and i...her ex-husband is black. race should not be an issue in this race.
I liked the "heart and mind is with" statement. It could be a new
slogan for Mccain.
So many people have said to me that they just LIKE the idea of a black president even though they don't agree with Obama. HUH??
Like there are no consequences for voting in his left wing ideology?
Is everybody nuts? It's not like Obama is the only black available.
Fellow Americans! Wake up!
Matisse
Z,
I wonder what your black girlfriend would say if you responded, "I'm voting for McCain because he's white. That's more important than my disagreements with him".
Frankly, I'm not stunned. The response from the black community, at OJ Simpson's acquittal, did stun me. Since that time, I have come to the conclusion we have done too much to contribute to the victocrat mentality that exists within the black community.
We should never have behaved as benefactors to an entire segment of society. I never supported affirmative action because I believed it implied inferiority on the part of those being "helped".
It created a different sort of separateness, but, separateness just the same. So now, we probably shouldn't be surprised.
We have, in America, celebrated diversity, multi-culturalism, and differences between groups, not commonalities. And certainly not traditional Americanism.
For this I blame 'feel good' liberalism. Conservatives have long been criticized for opposing these ideas, but, as far as I'm concerned, we were right.
Our society is polarized into smaller, self interest groups of every kind one can think of. How else can one explain that someone will vote against his or her own belief in what would be best for America, in favor of a candidate simply because of skin color?
I think it's all very sad. It's non-sensical, but, there it is. In a way I wish I was stunned, because the fact that I'm not demonstrates to me, I have become somewhat devoid of the feeling that we are all Americans first. Sadly I realize that is no longer true.
We seem to have become, a race, a gender, a sexual orientation, a national origin of every kind, seniors, etc.
Any one of these for many, comes first.
Not for me. I'll always be an American first.
Pris
nanc, the ONLY VP selection McCain could make which MIGHT convince me not to vote would be Condi. Dick Morris says she's his best bet. I say "you pick her and you've lost even more Christians than you will with Romney.." ( I would definitely vote for him with Romney or about anyone else )
Matisse...it IS a good line, isn't it! (and thanks for coming by!)
Anonymous..Rhodesia's called Zimbabwe lately.....and who CARES about Black or White..THAT is why I'm stunned that good, traditional Black friends with conservative values are actually considering Obama..THEY are making this race (pardon the pun) about COLOR.. NOT US.
Those people who are black and state that they are conservative and intend to vote for Obama
1. have no convictions at all,
2. are morally troubled because they put skin color above principles, and consequently
3. have no further standing of being heard.
And where are these people, who care so much about blacks, when they see the atrocities in black Africa - where are the voices against Mugabe and Mbeki and and..? The answer, I fear, is: they have no moral compass at all.
Mr.Z
Z, I agree this is puzzling. I also can't understand the far right or disgruntled republicans voting for a third party candidate assuring a win for a far left liberal. It seems that some people vote for the historical choice and the others are voting for the one who can't win. Both are baffling to me. interesting topic. :)N
Our society is polarized into smaller, self interest groups of every kind one can think of. How else can one explain that someone will vote against his or her own belief in what would be best for America, in favor of a candidate simply because of skin color?
I think certain minority groups- blacks especially- ache inside to feel validation. It might be difficult to fully understand if you are not a minority growing up largely in a society where there is a predominance of "whiteness", from role models, to the toys you play with and comic books you read (primarily white heroes).
Things are much more diverse today than they were when I was growing up, even 20 years ago. I for one am secure enough in my own skin that I would not vote in an Asian-American based whatsoever on skin-color. Even given two candidates of similar values, one being caucasian and the other asian, skin-color would not be a deciding factor for me. I don't need that glass ceiling broken, simply to see it broken.
Strangely enough, I can understand, for blacks, how it might matter, given if two candidates shared similar values. Values loyalty trumps race identity. But I think there have been a few conservative blacks who I've heard make sound arguments that have a certain logic to it. Racial identity is a crutch, but when so many people rely on that crutch, perhaps to move beyond race, this glass ceiling- of seeing a black president- should happen? If the underlying result is to do good for society, then it is worth considering, even if we all know in our heads, that any value we place on ethnicity is superficial.
"This stuns me...does it you?"
Not really, unfortunately it's human nature, we must play with the fire, get burnt and then only will we learn from it. Obama talks hope and change, there is no pain, yet.
A wise man learns from another's mistakes. Unfortunately there aren't too many wise men around Z.
is "blood" thicker than policy z?.. in some regard i can understand the sympathy for any black person hoping for obama's accession. after years of repression this is a sign of "deliverence" if you will... (i hope that doesn't sound condescending..)
I cannot imagine voting for someone based on skin color. Cannot imagine!
Is this some kind of sick damned joke? Michael Varner is holding out until he can see "what kind of change Obama wants to bring"?
SOCIALISM Mike!!!!!!!! That's your change from Obama!
I'm horribly disappointed in J.C. Watts and Armstrong Williams. Especially Watts, whom I've spoken to on a few occassions. I thought he was a rock-ribbed Conservative.
Obama will probably get 92-93% of the black vote, which will be more than offset by losses among Jews and disaffected Hillary voters.
Morgan
Ned Beatty time...
fj I forgot just how gooood that scene was! WOW! Was it the inbred nature of the article that brought it to mind? :-)
Morgan
Nanc makes some excellent points. Race should not be an issue...so why is it? For a community supposedly fighting racism, those backing Obama solely on his color could arguably be the most racist of all.
I too know a very Conservative young man who can name off all the past American presidents and passionately despises all the Democrats. His hero is Reagan...and yet, you guessed it, he likes Obama. He considers him to be 'centrist'. I think it's this whole smoke and mirrors thing where the Obamachine has made him appear to be all things to all people...a kind of desert mirage that shimmers in the light and changes according to your deepest desires. The whole illusion is an astounding phenomenon, I'll give it that...and as deadly as arsenic. Obama is going to turn from the brightest dream to the worst nightmare for his enemies.
Aurora, and the brightest dream for OUR enemies, right?
Wordsmith; I was putting my own feet into their shoes, too. With Armenian background, I knew with no doubt that I'd NEVER EVER vote for an Armenian just because he's Armenian. BUT, I DO totally understand what you and some others here have described....WE who are not Black simply can't know that that validation would feel like. I think those of us who're not racist can't figure out the big desire because WE see all people as PEOPLE, not judging because of color or ethnicity! That's what I've often thought, anyway; If you're not racist and think things have improved in America SO much, it's a stretch to think good people would vote for bad guy because they'll feel so much better about their race.
Nikki...I'm with you. I think the term "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" fits, right?
Morgan..INSANITY, it's sheer INSANITY to think good conservatives like Williams and WATTS (who's apparently starting a conservative Black cable channel or something?) could even consider voting for SUCH a liberal Dem!! that "what kind of change" stuck in my throat, too? How much more info does he need to see that that change is anathema to ANY conservative!!?
Pris, I swear I'm considering telling my friend "I'm voting for McCain because he's white"...just to see what she does. She knows me well enough not to take offense and MAYBE it could wake her up?
CHANGE HOPE... I heard a great sermon lately; "Hope must have a SOURCE!" The SOURCE of Obama's CHANGE is positively horrifying: Marxism, Socialism, Anger, personal racial confusion and resentment of his own relatives......the HOPE and CHANGE it creates is ominous.
scary.
FJ? "give him a couple bucks" might be THE ugliest line I'll have ever heard in a film on SO many levels.
I have never seen all of Deliverance and I had no idea how that tune is introduced into it, tho I knew it was the 'theme'...
The EGO of Beatty (an actor whom I adore) slamming the kid for what he is and then all of them realizing there's genius there, whatever he is.........got me teary. Thanks for giving me even MORE appreciation for one of THE best guitar/banjo tunes going.
wow.....what a scene. I wanted to SMACK every one of those guys...except the guitar player; at least he saw something and was shocked that the guy wouldn't talk to him...he didn't judge. ugh..I'm going on and on here....suffice it to say there are levels in that short scene I'll never forget. thanks.
Are we that inbred? I hope not.
No, sadly, I am not surprised. Obama is counting on black votes from all sides to put him in the Presidency. The identity politics angle runs deep.
I am proud that in Texas, the Republican party's vice-chairman is a black conservative man. A physician and not at all swayed to vote for Obama. Every now and then we run into a glimmer of hope. Real hope.
I just read a comment at Elmer's Brother's blog (on my blogroll, of course! he's my GREAT buddy!) where a guy said he went to a McCain Townhall..he proceded to slam Mrs. McCain for "not looking like she's had the plastic surgery" and how rag on how old McCain looks...
He's going for Obama now because at least he's CHANGE and might learn enough where he'll do a good job.
Sometimes, it's better NOT to go to sites and read the comments, huh? I haven't had breakfast yet! grrrr
try not to throw up Z...Ed is or was a conservative...I simply do not understand his thinking.
May I borrow that source of hope comment, with attribution of course?
I'm not surprised.
Yet, if a white person votes for a white person because they're white, that voter is a bigot.
Just the opposite, and there's trailblazing happening.
It makes me sick!
Columnist and Republican Strategist recently said, “From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working. After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World, and fill the shoes of Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK, and Ronald Reagan. 143 days. I keep leftovers in my refrigerator longer than that.”
Obama’s oratory is quite sophisticated. It has to be. Mr. Obama lacks experience, does not appear to have that “judgment” he keeps assuring us that he does have, and his record reflects that he is one of this countries most liberal politicians. In Chicago, he supported a ban on firearms and then recently said he supports the court’s recent decision with respect to the Second Amendment. Through oratory, he wants to convince voters that he has a viable plan for America even though the opposite is true. Through words, he is appealing to emotion to convince voters that we really do need expensive programs, and that we can actually afford them. His speeches are a good attempt to demonstrate that he really is a reasonable, moderate politician, even when his record tells us otherwise.
Barack Obama’s political base is, and has always been, black voters who “feel the pain” of past injustices, and white voters who willingly accept racist guilt. Like Pris, I am not stunned by your revelations – but I am saddened to think that well-educated, successful professionals of any color can allow themselves to be so easily persuaded. Voting race buys in to the idea that white society has persecuted black citizens, and I must say that for the 45 years this has simply not been the case. Select any social demographic, and the answer to questions about absentee fathers, teen pregnancies, high rates of crime, and dependency upon the government is directly attributed to black leaders (who’ve made a fortune from racism), and democratic socialist politicians.
Buying into Mr. Obama’s hype is irresponsible. Worse, it places race above our beloved country. It is unpatriotic, and it is dangerous. When blacks vote for Obama because he is a black man, they follow the inverse example of Southern Democrats years ago when they implemented “Jim Crow” laws.
Elbro...by all means, use the source of hope line...you don't have to attribute anything to me. Except all the rest of it..that's MINE (ALL MIIIIIINE!) Smile!!! Just send a check!!
Brooke...you're SO right.
And Mustang? BRAVO. WOULD that every American could read that...
I would say "AMEN" to your comment about JUDGMENT...So far, ALL his judgments have been horrid yet the Left treats his judgment about not going into Iraq as some kind of BRILLIANT EPIPHANY! when MANY of us believe we SHOULD be in Iraq! The NERVE. Do you see why we could lose?
There was the LEft last night on TV cheering Obama's choice, that he was RIGHT not going into Iraq..and Americans HEAR THAT and most may never stop and think "But, the surge is working, Saddam is GONE...etc etc.." OBAMA WINS!
His base might be Black voters but it MUST be larger than that or he wouldn't have these numbers. I'd add GUILTY WHITE VOTERS.
man..this is such a horrid situation.
I don't find it puzzling at all, Z. It's reverse racism, but everyone seems to be okay with that because it's the Blacks who are discriminating. To vote for someone simply because they have the same color of skin as you is ridiculously stupid!
I think I will tell the black people I know that I am going to vote for McCain because he is white and see what sort of reaction I get. I know they will be voting for Obama based solely on his skin color.
This stuns me...does it you?
Nope. The very idea of having a black president in the white house are more attractive than their moral values.
However, since I want neither McCain or Obama in office, I'm voting for Chuck Baldwin.
Just waiting for the sheeple to angrily respond on my decision by flagrantly deriding me citing that it's my fault for letting Obama win. This fallacy is totally untrue.
We shouldn't be too worried about black republicans (all three of them) voting for Obama as much as we should worry about whether white republicans will be voting for McCain.
OT: I'm sorry your comment was lost in the vast recesses of the blogosphere. I surely didn't delete it.
Chalk this phenomenon up to this song by Living Colour:
“And during the few moments that we have left, we want to talk, right down to
earth, in a language that everybody here can easily understand.” (Malcolm X)
Look in my eyes, what do you see?
the Cult of Personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you wanna be ohhh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
Neon lights, Nobel Prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face of your T.V. ohh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
I exploit you; still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three ohh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi ohh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
Neon lights, Nobel Prize
When a leader speaks, that leader dies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set you free
(Guitar solo)
You gave me fortune, you gave me fame
You gave me power in your God's name
I'm every person you need to be ohh…
I'm, the, Cult, of, Per, Son, Al, Ity
I am the Cult of (x8)
Personality
“Ask not what your country can do for you…” (John F. Kennedy)
“The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.” (Franklin D. Roosevelt)
Here's where democracy shows its futility as a political system to the max. Ordinary people have way too much responsibility and the best may be easily outvoted by the worst.
"my heart is with Obama, and my brain is with McCain"
The heart is a pump, it doesn't think.
That guitar-banjo scene is amazing. I played it over and over. Why did the kid refuse to shake his hand? It contributed to the movie's fear factor for sure, and it doesn't really have to have a certain explanation, but is it possible it was because the guitarist said "God damn?" Or are the people there religious?
I couldn't hear what Ned Beatty said the first time he talked (I did hear the two bucks line). Anybody translate?
I guess not. It was just supposed to show "dislike" according to the Wikipedia discussion of the scene. And I wondered where they found that actor. It's all here.
That is, it's all HERE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Redden
Was it the inbred nature of the article that brought it to mind?
No Morgan, it was Pat's comment...
after years of repression this (Obama's candidacy) is a sign of "deliverence" if you will...
Save me from "deliverance"... I don't want to end up like ole Ned.
Gayle and Steve, I refuse to think Black Americans would put their country second to their color. WHAT is the matter with me?
And Steve? if you still think voting for Baldwin isn't helping Obama, what more can we all say?
Cube..EXCELLENT point..we have a LOT more to be worried about as to who'll vote for McCain. Right! And thanks..it must have gotten lost in the blogosphere! I knew you wouldn't delete but wanted to make sure I hadn't misspoken somehow! :-) Thanks, Cube.
Pops. that is CHILLING.
CJ..re your first point re: Democracy, Mr. Z is writing something on that EXACT point.
Also..re: Redden? Something I NEVER KNEW till very recently is that there's a 'look' in mountain people from being inbred (at least that's what I was told and my friends from Georgia and W Virginia confirm it....years ago, I knew a lovely woman who called herself a hillbilly, she was new to LA and had a look very similar to this Redden kid and others I've seen since..fascinating) and this kid had it...It felt to me that they demeaned him simply for WHAT HE WAS, a backwoods hillbilly, basically....plus he looked a little retarded (can we still use that word and be PC?) ..and yet, what he WAS was a beautiful soulful banjo picker with intense and amazing talent! I love that...I'm sure it's not what FJ intended, but I"ll be grateful to him for that for a long time. I LOVED that scene.
It seems to me that the "Black" community is confused. Obama is as most have related that is half-white. And he ridiculed his "white" grandmother.
To vote for someone solely based on color is mortifying. Voting is about the ethics, and their stance with important political, social etc. issues.
However, blacks do not embrace Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice, why? They have surpassed Obama in many accomplishments.
LECITICIA asks the question of the day! Yes, indeedy...they'll go for Socialist Obama, but not Rice or Powell, FAR brighter, FAR more experienced people (like them or not, they are)...
Maybe it it's a mixture of color AND promised freebies. VERY sad.
I was originally going to post the "you look jes like a hog" rape scene... ;-)
It's his "charisma," his way with the gab that sets him apart from Powell and Rice. They are stodgy and intellectual compared to Obama who's out there with "the people."
Cj..good point..CHARISMA!!
FJ...maybe I should see the whole movie, huh? or maybe not!?
...maybe not.
Good write-up. Obama is such a fake. I am so sick of hearing about him, but like bad medicine we have to take it and get the word out. Also, he is not black, he is bi-racial. But like most b-racials they consider themselves black only. And this is not about race? Who does he think he is talking to Z? He is so, so pathetic.
There was a terrible time in America's history when anybody with the slightest bit of Black blood would be considered Black, in a pejorative sense, sadly.
Today, though? Why ISN'T he running as BIRACIAL? Does Michelle resent his half-whiteness? the quarter-whiteness of her daughters? Why does he not run as BIRACIAL?
Maybe he just hates that White part of him. It sure seems like it.
is that what we want for a president, someone who's angry at White America? Yikes.
Stunned, amazed, it happens about this time every four years. I've heard folks talk about voting for a Republican or Democrat because Dad and Gran-Dad voted that way. Now we can vote for a candidate because of their color, "considering voting for someone as unconservative as you can get. Are they giving up their principles for their emotions?" If the candidate can't convince me that they will protect and defend the United States Constitution they don't get my vote.
God Bless America, God Save The Republic.
sure its about the race card..exacly as NObama wanted it all along Z!..spit!
I have kin who have been to the area in Rabun Gap, Georgia, where lots of Deliverance was filmed.
The boy most likely did not shake the hand of the man with the money to show his fierce independence and pride...to say, I am not a trained monkey.
Mountain people have a real hard streak independence in them .
Offering money to that boy was like an insult..it is just hard to explain.
As for voting for someone because he is a brother, well, so be it.
Love to see the truth come out.
SOme say Colin Powell has had long talks with Obama, I am sure he is being offered something tasty.
Some people will sell anything, and they stand for nothing.
If Obama was the one with McCain's credentials, I would be voting for Obama, simple as that.
To me, it is about the inside of the person and what they are.
If I see no love of America, then the person will not get my vote.
Now, obviously to me, Obama doesn't care for America, because he just whines about change, change, change.
So, now you know how shallow some people really and truly are.
Yes, it is about race and the race card being played.
But not by the Republicans.
Hillary and Bill knew the truth.
WVDOTTR
WVDottr..I think that's exactly why the kid didn't take the money.....that's why that "give him a coupla bucks" line bugged me so much. That kid was so happy to be playing so well, and be so appreciated for it, the money meant nothing to him. PRIDE. He wasn't a monkey they could use like a monkey grinder.
Woman: NOBAMA NATION...WAAAY better than that OBAMANATION (as in Abomination) people used to say..I'd freak out saying not OBAMA NATION!! THAT"S WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE. I like NOBAMA NATION. God willing!!
David..thanks for coming by, too!!
It's ALL ABOUT THE CHARACTER AND SHARED VALUES, NOT COLOR: THAT is the message of my post and the great message of all you commenters. WHY can't the Left SEe that??? ugh.
Regarding that movie, Delieverance, yes,..it is about pride, and how you can't buy everything.
That boy was saying.."I ain't for sale."
As for what the left sees, Z, they SEE nothing but race or other obvious factors.
They do not see AMERICANS.
You have surely heard the term : Identity Politics?
Well, there you go.
By the way, Obama's campaign who thought up having Wesley Clark go out and make the remarks about McCain: hey, way to go People.
Thanks for pointing out how much better a candidate the Republicans really DO Have running for the office of president of America.
Obama is not fit to sit at the table with John McCain, in my own opinion.
I have been in the presence of former POW's and let me tell you, they are different kinds of people.
And oh, seems Obama got a special house loan.
These ideas for bail outs running through the senate and congress are making more and more sense every day.
When all else fails , follow the money.
WVDOTTR
When push comes to shove most people simply want to see one of their own on top.
This natural effect has been greatly heightened by the constant agitation, doubt-casting and volley of unwarranted aspersions from the Critical Theory Cultural Marxists have been attacking us with since the 1920's.
Multiculturalism is a code word for militant DIVISIVENESS. Just as notions of Fairness and Equality are code words for TYRANNY in the Marxist lexicon.
Marxism derives its terrible power by appealing to our basest instincts while portraying self-indulgence, envy, spite, malice, disrespect, vulgarity and legalized theft as VIRTUOUS.
Oh Gosh! I must be getting senile.
that last post was mine.
~ FreeThinke
Yes, Z. It stunns me, too.
This is what I witnessed here when I voted in the primaries.
This is exactly what Obama's supporters were doing. Voting with their hearts.
I guess it's a matter of years and years of frustration and emotion that we simply can't understand.
I'll try to not judge, but rather inform my friends when I'm faced with this. However, most of my black friends are quite liberal, so I doubt it will be much of a conversation.
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