Saturday, February 13, 2010

No Jewish suicide pact here...just a few crazies, but we had to know,...


(they do speak English in the video)These are apparently Hasidic Jews who don't support Israel's existence....Can someone explain this to me, please? Do all Hasidim feel this way? Thanks.
Then there is THIS ARTICLE in the Jerusalem Post which calls Sarah Palin "....the strongest single American voice opposing Obama’s foreign policy, supporting Israel and denying Iran nuclear weapons." You might want to read it. I would think the Hasidic Jews in the video would at least want to protect the safety of Israel against the man they fawned over in the above video. I'm posting this because so many of us are pro Israel and the thought of religious Jews not giving that support kind of stunned me. Ahmadinejad has called the holocaust 'a myth'....do the Hasidim believe that?
z

48 comments:

FairWitness said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FairWitness said...

Wow. Suicide pact, indeed, Z. It's incomprehensible.

Caroline Glick is always compelling and I agree with her views on Sarah Palin.

I hope Sarah runs in 2012, she will be elected the first woman President of the United States, if she does.

FJ said...

Sorry, the irony of Jewish anti-Zionists meeting with and praising a holocaust denying theocratic Islamic velyaat al-fiqh government is just too, too rich.

from Wikipedia:

"Hasidism teaches that there are sparks of goodness in all things, which can be redeemed to perfect the world. "

Indeed. But I'd say they've a long row to hoe in "redeeming" the veleyaat al-fiqh regime in Iran... and that by praising it, they do the "sparks of goodness" a gross injustice.

Z said...

...and give Iran a great photo op, FJ. And put Jews in jeopardy.

FW, Sometimes I am so gung-ho on Palin and sometimes I'm just not sure. I

FrogBurger said...

I think sometimes religion and the willingness to be good leads to blindness. It's unfortunate that people confuse good with right.

Z said...

FrogBurger, you make a very important point. There can be no doubt the Hasidim are sincere and hopeful and honestly believe their goodness and, possibly, forgiveness?, could help.
But, these religious people need to remember, as do most Christians, that evil does exist and that has to be recognized and met in a different way.

There are Christians who believe prayer is all that's necessary for anything because, after all, God will have His will, which He WILL HAVE, but the Old Testament of Jews and Christians shows us how God USED PEOPLE, ARMIES, to fight for His righteous causes, particularly FOR ISRAEL, and I don't think He wants us to back down now.

I think these people are naive and one can't REALLY fault that....but this man DENIES THE HOLOCAUST! This man threatens Israel (and us) and I just can't imagine their attitude and how they hope it will work.

JINGOIST said...

Well Z my first reaction was nausea and my second wasn't fit to write here. There are FOOLS, and then there are GD fools!

Here's one of the many things I've heard about Hasidiim. Other than the fact that they're industious, highly educated, and hard-working people, they TRY to live as closely as possible to the letter of the Law in the Bible.

Included in their "teachings" is the Midrash and the Talmud. This strain of Judaism evolved more or less in the relative isolation of the Jewish Eastern European shetls (towns) or ghettos. Particularly in Poland and Ukraine where my father's side hails from.

In that setting, both good and bad ideas can flourish and become entrenched. From what I understand, not only are these Hassidiim (that's plural) peaceniks, but they object to the manner in which Israel was formed.

I may be mistaken, but this is the way I heard it. They believe that the proper and legitimate formation of G-d's state of Israel will be led by the Mesach (Messiah), not regular men and women who fought to defend Israel and bled the fields of battle heroically. I bet you can tell how I feel about this since I have family there?

The upshot is that these fools think that the "artificial" creation of Israel offends G-d, that regular people took matters into their own hands rather than waiting on His Mesach. They believe this is keeping G-d from sending the Messiah; who according to Jewish tradition is a man who will emerge from among us.

Needless to say, this opinion of Israel reflects the views of a tiny minority of us Hebes. :-)

Someone help me out if I'm all wrong here.

Z said...

Jingo, I knew I could count on you.
Your explanation surely explains their actions but they ARE suicidal, nevertheless...obviously thinking their sweetness is going to win this JERK OVER. He DENIED the HOlocaust, how COULD THEY kiss his hands???

Jews have been in that region for SO MANY YEARS, it's almost difficult to consider that that IS NOT where God intended the Messiah to come from and to hope that all would follow Him.

Hey, I'm still hoping they follow Him (Sorry, had to get that in....you can't blame me for trying!! HEE HEE!) :-)

Thanks, Jingo...let's see if anybody has anything to add.
And I'll be praying for your relatives in Israel. I have a cousin and his family there, too...he converted to Judaism when he fell in love with his wife.

God bless, my friend. And thanks for the great comment.

JINGOIST said...

Thanks Z, I just hope that I'm right on the specifics, and I sincerely regret that we even had to watch such a wretched bunch of gd sacrificial lambs!!

As you've probably guessed, most American Jews came from "fighters" who made it through 1500 years of diaspora persecution in Europe and north Africa. No matter what our politics, this was REVOLTING to watch.

I wouldn't dare show this to my 78 year old dad, he'd flip his stack! The old man STILL thinks he can throw some hands if he has to. LOL!

There's also the assimilated peacenik Jewish liberals to compare to these guys. They're different in their choice of religion and lifestyle; which is Progressivism. They are the same as Progressive peacenike Christians--self-loathing leftists.

beakerkin said...

Guys a little bit of help

The Neturai Karta are a very small
group that literally go from anti Israel cause to the next. Their are rumors they are paid for their presence.

The Chasidic community has several sects. The Satmar is also anti Israel but not in such strident tones. This is also the reason that I refuse to associate with them. In Northern VT I was frequently sought out to participate in community events in
Montreal. My first question was are the Satmar present and a polite no thank you. They are very despised in certain segments.

The largest sect is the Lubavitcher sect which is pro Israel. Smaller sects include Belz, Bobovers and around three or four other groups. Most of these other groups are pro Israel.

The Neturai Karta are used by commies to make it appear that the whole Chasidic movement agrees with them. In fact their world wide number is roughly 200.

JINGOIST said...

I knew I was missing the specifics! Thanks Beak. You da man!
This didn't really fit with the Hassidiim that I know, but I have heard of this particular sick behavior.

Z said...

Beak, thanks for that information...I'm relieved to hear that except the part about rumors they are paid to act like this almost hurts because these men look like SUCH GOOD MEN, you know?
Well, it's sure good to have you and Jingo here to explain....
I was totally perplexed and sad, believe me.

And yes, there are American Jews who seem to have the same disdain for Israel that these Hasidim do..... And it stems kind of from that same thinking they're so good and loving.....a kind of silly bowing to "THE UNDERDOG PALESTINIAN WHO DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE HURT BY THE JEWS!" Because the PA's are poorer and kick up a fuss all the time. I will NEVER understand that thinking when anybody with EYES and BRAINS knows that Golda Meir's comment was right:

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." I'd like to add here that I knew this quote but wasn't sure of the exact wording...so I Googled....Golda Meir QUOTES.........nada. I clicked on several of pages of her quotes and NADA. Fascinating that wouldn't be on top of her list, isn't it.

I can't forget living in paris and being relegated to CNN International for "news" (it's even more biased than our CNN) and watching explosions on Israeli buses and then seeing the damage Israel did in retribution; CNN spent about 2 min on the buses and all the people killed on them and about 20 min on the PA 'suffering' when Israel hit back...I had such a visceral reaction I remember that moment like it was yesterday.

Anyway...thanks for the input. This clear it up and I SURE DO HOPE this is a VERY small group of.... DOPES. (sorry, but...)

beakerkin said...

These same kooks even appeared at the Holocaust Denial forum in Tehran.
How these so called Rabbis travel all
over the globe with no income remains unknown.

They are pariahs in the Jewish community and number roughly 200.

Z said...

Thanks, Beak...I wish we could stop their fawning because it gives Ahmadinejad such a platform but who's really paying attention to these nuts, anyway? (i hope)

Faith said...

I'd heard what Jingoist said, but Beakerkin's information helps put it in perspective. This sect rejects Israel because God -- or His Messiah -- didn't bring it into being.

Faith said...

I personally think it's hard to doubt God's hand in the existence of Israel. There are too many "coincidences" in its history, too many actual miracles as a matter of fact, and too much fulfilled prophecy. God Himself brought them there whether they know it or not, and they'll know it when it's His time to reveal it.

Faith said...

And that article makes a lot of good points about Palin. She IS the only one who is speaking up for Israel from the heart. The Left IS the enemy of the Jews even as they embrace it. They probably do have a problem with Palin's "class" too. I also waver about Palin, thinking she may just not be equal to taking on as big a role in politics as she's aiming for, but this could be my own falling for the Leftist smear campaign against her, and my own nervousness about her naive down-home style.

JINGOIST said...

Faith wrote:
"I personally think it's hard to doubt God's hand in the existence of Israel. There are too many "coincidences" in its history, too many actual miracles as a matter of fact, and too much fulfilled prophecy."

I agree completely. Israel's existence in the face of repeated overwhelming invasions has His hand written ALL OVER it. I feel the same about America and our Founding. Both are AMAZING stories.

Z said...

Faith, I believe Palin might not be 100% right for the job but nobody has been (except, maybe, Reagan) and I, too, often wonder if I suffer from that leftwinger 'drip drip drip' I condemn them for; misinformation that keeps dripping on the heads of Americans causing them to finally absorb it, wrong as it is. I think maybe I've bought into that a bit with Palin. I will say that if I have to pay myself, I'd enjoy hearing her speak after about 10 sessions with an elocutionist :-) Yup...YOU BETCHA!

ugh
But, I keep thinking her mind and her love of America and traditional values is more important that her voice!

(help me, God:-)

Z said...

Jingo, I have lately started to strongly believe that God has His hand on our country's founding, too. The more I see how we're floundering since so many have taken God OUT of their lives, the more I believe that.
You could probably do a graph showing when we started getting WAY too cool for God and when we started going WAY downhill....the lines would be in parallel, I believe.

It was our duty to be a place where people would come in legally and partake in the greatest country on earth, where we'd guard our resources and use them wisely as they were so bountifully provided, where people were punished justly when they broke societal Judeo-Christian laws, a place where the constitution came first and we didn't interpret to fit political correctness, a country whose citizens were proud and stood up for it at any cost, a place where we could rely on ourselves and not others but a place where others were always good enough to help..etc etc.

There's a longer list but I have to go wash the fairy dust out of my eyes now :-)

Ducky's here said...

Thanks Beak, I knew you'd sneak commies in somehow.

Z said...

Ducky, tough to face facts?

Z said...

http://socialsense.blogspot.com/2010/02/o-beautiful.html

That's Mustang's blog, and it has a video that goes with what Jingo and I am saying about God and America.
WOW. Enjoy!

JINGOIST said...

Z, I loved the post at 1:49!

Anonymous said...

Everyone here has covered this well, and I have learned from Jingo and Beak, things I had heretofore not known. Thanks guys.

As I watched the video, I must say I was so appalled, as to be stunned.

I couldn't help thinking, when will they fall to their knees and say, please don't hurt us, there are "good" Jews like us who love you.

My God, would they have their people walk like lambs into the slaughter that Ahmadinejad would have in store for them?

I didn't see them as sweet, I saw them as disdaining their fellow Jews and throwing them over like so much trash. It seemed more like a betrayal than a quest for peace.


Z, did you see the interview Greta Van Susteren had with Henry Paulson last night? He said he had spoken on the phone with Palin when she was running for VP, and that she was on top of all the hot button issues, asking him questions, and giving opinions.

I understand your hesitancy regarding Palin's manner of speech, but she doesn't do a song and dance pretending she's something she's not. I like that. I like her candor and of course her love of America.

We'll see where things take her and how she holds up. I think she's pretty tough, and no shrinking violet for sure. I also think she's underestimated, which as we know from past candidates, can be advantageous.

We are seeing now with Obama, being overestimated can be a disadvantage and in fact be a losing proposition.

Pris

Anonymous said...

The needs of Haiti are more pressing at the moment.

beakerkin said...

Ducky

Communists have been stoking Populist antisemitism for around 100
years. The Neturai Karta are allowing themselves to be used by commies. The question is are they getting compensated for it

Z said...

I saw a bit of Paulson, Pris, but not the part about Palin...(peter pepper picked a peck...geesh!)

Don't get me wrong about Palin, I like her but there's something telling me something lately and I hope I'm REAL WRONG....I know she loves America and has fine values, and that's really enough for me; it would be such a relief. She can gather good people around her as long as her compass is on NORTH!

Anonymous, I have a friend who just came back from about two weeks of helping in Haiti and I'd like to share his thoughts but it's so shocking I made a pact with myself NOT TO. Let me add that we have to keep praying for them, never forget, and donate as much as we can....they're human beings in TERRIBLE shape...
I'm not sure why you left that comment, but thanks for the reminder.

Z said...

Beak, you were very clear in your original comments...I'm not sure what Ducky's not understanding.

Anonymous said...

"Beak, you were very clear in your original comments...I'm not sure what Ducky's not understanding"

Z, what is there that Ducky does understand?

Pris

Anonymous said...

"I saw a bit of Paulson, Pris, but not the part about Palin...(peter pepper picked a peck...geesh!)"

Hey Z, I learned it as.. Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers....

You learned it differently?

Pris

Z said...

Pris..close enough? I don't know, it's been too long! I always said Peter Pepper but Piper sounds right, too! I'm sure you're right..

Faith said...

Elocution lessons, Yes. Get some of the mannerisms off her. I know I should take her as she is, and I may have to, but I really WISH she'd do this, get some polish into her style. She's been compared to Margaret Thatcher but Thatcher had the demeanor and style of someone you didn't mess with. Sarah continues to sound and act like a -- I'm sure there's a perfect phrase but I don't have it. A breathless teenager?

Henya said...

OK, here is the perspective from a Hasidic Jew. I am a Lubavitcher. By the way, we are definitely not the largest, Satmar and Beltz and even Bobov are bigger, but we are probably the loudest. :-).
So first of all I was send the link to this blog by a friend, who wanted to know "how could this be..." So I watched the video and found it very suspicious. My DH, who is a computer geek did some investigating. Here are the results.
1. The Jews in this video belong to a splinter group of Neturei Karta, you can read about them here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta#cite_note-odenheimer-3
They are not, and never were Hasidim. They dress this way because it is a custom of Jerusalem Orthodox. So, please, do not confuse them with Hasidim. Especially on the issue of Holocaust. I grew up in Russia, in the apartment with a view on a mass grave. Most of my relatives from a previous generation were killed during Holocaust. There can be no denial.
2. It is interesting to note that this video has surfaced now. It was taken in September of 2007. Why now? To spread discord amongst Jews (as if there is not enough already?).
3. Take a look at the profile of the person, who has posted the video on You Tube. It is interesting to note that a lot of content there is anti-Semitic. Do take the time to watch his video-manifesto: http://www.youtube.com/user/deusmihifortis#p/a
4. Then, if you can stand it, take a look at the website of the organization he is promoting - Truth Alliance
http://truthalliance.net/
lots of fun info and discussions. For instance who caused 9/11 - the answer they come up with is, of course, - Israel.
http://truthalliance.net/Forums/tabid/57/afv/topic/aff/13/aft/289/Default.aspx

So to answer your question - there is no suicide pact, you did miss something.

Z said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Z said...

Faith....sort of, yes.
But, we can't have everything! I guess we have to settle for a good heart and brain! I'll settle for that, right? :-)

Z said...

Henya, thank you for coming by.
I don't even remember where I found the video but it bothered me enough to post and ask.
that website is disgusting.

Of course there is no Jewish suicide pact in general but, if all Jews acted like those in the video, who'd suggest anything BUT THAT?

Henya said...

The reason for posting the link to Truth Alliance is simple. When you get into the profile of the original poster of this video you see that he represents this organization. So, you can understand why he is posting the video, as a provocation.
To me that was important.

Z said...

Henya, thanks for coming back.
Yes, I understand that and I still feel those Jews, as small as their group might be, are dead wrong and should never put other Jews in the position they've put them in when people like me and my readers think they represent more than they do.
If they're being paid, like Beakerkin suggests, that's even more horrendous.

Henya said...

We are talking about a splinter group of crazies, that comprises less than 100 families. After all all movements have a "lunatic fringe", why give them so much attention, after all that is what they want.
What disturbs me is that in this case they are being used to promote the old idea of the world domination by Jews.
When we see something that does not add up, we need to investigate the things carefuly.

Z said...

Henya, that's precisely why I posted this.
I'd rather know the truth than to stew on it not knowing and imagining all Hasidim or MOST JEWS felt like THIS. This IS research, I got good information back from you and Jingoist and Beakerkin, didn't I..and all my readers have seen them...and have been enlightened..
I will change the title for you, perhaps that will end the struggle you're having....perhaps that's what's bugging you still.
Thanks.

Ducky's here said...

Pris, what don't I understand? Well unlike fundamentalists I DO understand that the Old testament doesn't square with the historical record and is best taken as allegory and fable lest you believe that world history is simply the history of Israel.

Z said...

Ducky, you really should read the O.T. more carefully, if you have at all.
Then check out the proof of the Red Sea parting (finding relics at the bottom such as chariot wheels, etc.. I don't have time to link it but maybe I will later..it's turned secularists around).

It must be hard to constantly try to disprove and discredit ("prayer is a racket") the very faith you claim. I wish you peace

Anonymous said...

"Z, what is there that Ducky does understand?"

Oh my Ducky, my comment above was meant in a much broader sense, and not limited to the subject at hand.

But, of course, this has to be explained to you, which is the implication in my original comment.

Pris

Henya said...

Thank you for the change in the title. I appreciate it.

Z said...

Henya, you are SO WELCOME :-)
It's been nice to get to know you a little bit like this and I'm so glad you were here.
God bless you.

beakerkin said...

Z

It is a fact that The Neturai Karta were caught red handed receiving money from Communist Yasser Arafat. They are almost certainly receiving money from Iran, Libya and other Gulf Countries.

Commies present these very small paid spokesmen as representatives of the Orthodox view. In general I do not support the JDO. However, boycotting businesses that employ Neturai Karta members is warranted.

Rabbi Weiss gets very quiet when asked about money and speaking in a microphone on Shabos. The Neturai
Karta are a communist media fraud.

Z said...

Boy, am I getting a lot of traffic on this post since I changed the title...
people must lay in wait for some topics!!