Wednesday, July 21, 2010

Detroit......America's future?


Please pay attention to this whole video..it's short and important. We need to know what's ahead if America continues to follow what Detroit's been doing since the Johnson administration......Unions, government promises, hopelessness. HOPElessness.
And as America struggles, Washington, DC BOOMS. Some 'change'.

z

63 comments:

Craig and Heather said...

Kind of brings to mind those cheesy '80's-era post nuclear war flicks.



Very sad, Z.
The attitude of entitlement + Govt promises to provide = deconstruction of a once-productive society.

It's not just Detroit, either. Just over the state line in our area is a small town that is well-known for it's welfare status. Slummy houses, parents who aren't motivated to get jobs or care for their kids...
And, there's only so much that can be done for people who aren't interested in being pulled out of it.

"Hopelessness" truly is an apt description.

H

Faith said...

Woa, that was powerful and TERRIBLY sad. Where do we start to undo this?

Ducky's here said...

And now they are at the point where Keynesian theory posits that they can't claw their way out. You get to a level where economic revitalization is not possible without external input.

More coming. Already with us in parts of Ohio, New York, Pennsylvania, Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana (soon to be even worse).

Here's a flash. Parts of this country are never coming back.

Craig and Heather said...

Parts of this country are never coming back.

Very possible. And the areas that have been most heavily influenced by govt dependence are likely to be the worst off.

H

Faith said...

Houses are now cheap in Detroit for obvious reasons. Most of them look structurally intact though. If crime could be kept out of those miserably wrecked neighborhoods, with the right incentives it might be possible to entice an influx of hard working people to move in and fix them up and improve the city. Of course they'd have to have jobs. Any way to re-establish an abandoned auto factory without UAW interference?

Faith said...

Meth labs are generally a white crime, no, major?

Craig and Heather said...

Meth labs are generally a white crime

They tend to be around here.

Elmers Brother said...

Mao would be proud.

The automotive industry isn't the only thing the unions are going to destroy.

Anonymous said...

"Meth labs are generally a white crime, no, major?


Why would you ask me? I just got here. But since you asked my opinion...Meth labs are probably an equal opportunity employer. And any lowlife who gets hooked wouldn't care what they smoked, injested or injected so long as the price was right. I don't think it knows a racial preference, maybe you do?

Major

Z said...

Faith, you might have thought the ANONYMOUS I deleted was Major.

I want everyone here (and please, I don't need agreement, I know how most of you feel) that this isn't a site were black Americans are disparaged. Yes, there are a lot of problems in the Black community but there are good people, too, just like any other community.
Thanks.

Chuck said...

I live in Michigan and grew up about 65 miles north of Detroit. I have had a front row seat to their decline.

We visited the area about 3 years ago and I drove downtown because I wanted my kids to see the historic Tiger's Stadium before they tore it down. It was like driving through one of the worst hell holes in any 3rd world country.

It was stunning to see first hand.

Anonymous said...

" I know how most of you feel that this isn't a site were black Americans are disparaged.

I happened to read that anonymous post Ms. Z...and I found it as innocuous as Craig and Heathers top post. ) I wanted to know what "Faith" was implying ) So why the deletion? I thought it was fairly humorous and quite...tongue in cheek. But thats me...and you can do whatever you want...it's your party.

But let me ask this....do you think that whites have been unfairly and unjustifiably disparaged in the msm too?

If so...why the reluctance to allow a response to the spurious accusations?

Major

FrogBurger said...

Doesn't take a genius to see where it's headed.

Just look at France, Greece, etc...

Big unions, big government, big welfare, big taxes.

Results: outsourcing in Romania, brain drain.

Facts the left likes to ignore. Because it's the fault of the market. (add whiny babies crying.)

FrogBurger said...

Here's a flash. Parts of this country are never coming back.

I'm afraid you're right. Solutions maybe: no tax at all in those areas. No business tax, no income tax, no property tax. And let's see what happens. I'd be ready to have the Fed give the money to make sure the infrastructures are supported. But if it goes to support welfare again, then nothing will change. It's the vicious cycle. So why not try the total opposite as an experiment? Can't get worse.

Anonymous said...

Here's the state of "racism" in the US today...50 years after MLK...and a year and a half after Obama....

""This is the way race plays out all too often these days — as soon as the accusation of racism is made, good will, the benefit of the doubt, presumption of innocence all go out the window. It's seen as a virtue to jump to the least charitable conclusion when the issue is race — those who reserve judgment are accused of naivete or complicity,"

Nuff said.

What do you think? Honestly? Where do you think we're headed when the governor of Massachusetts equates activism...with...sedition...cause Obama's "black".

Personally....I don't like his white side either, to be fair to the totality of the man.

Major

Anonymous said...

"Here's a flash. Parts of this country are never coming back.

Is it possible to return detroit to it's original owners? The French? The Indians...led by Chief Pontiac ( a great car BTW )?

It's long gone greatness...has been eclipsed by socialist, corrupt, rotten to the core...dem fixers.

Major

Faith said...

Sorry Z, Major, that "anonymous" poster had the same style of posting Major has, with the bolded and sometimes italicized quotes. It didn't even occur to me it might not be him.

As for your question, Major, I simply answered according to my observation of news reports on meth busts.

Anonymous said...

Between the unions, the union bosses, & the corrupt wacked-out Democratic powers that be in the city, Detroit didn't have much of a chance. What a tragedy for a once-great city.

Silvrlady

David Wyatt said...

As Frogburger said, "Big unions, big government, big welfare, big taxes." Add, Big MESS.

jadedfellow said...

When people lose the understanding that they are able to individually influence the outcome of their own life enter, unions, governments, organized religion, controlling relationships and whatever.

There are many psychological theories that expound on this and that, that and this, maybe iffen, maybe not iffen, yada yada yada!

To me it is very simple, I take responsiblity for my own actions and decisions. I choose to temper and adapt to my environment with the understanding that others constitute significant impacts upon my life so, adaptablity, compassion, tolerance and stubborness to a set understanding of mores and values will git me thru the day, week, month and yada yada yada.

After all the mish mash, volitility, uniqueness, uncertaintity, disfunctionality I choose to get up every morning telling meself that I need to keep hopeing that I made a difference somehow, somewhere, to someone. I go to bed pretty much every night asking, G-d grant me the courage to have hope in the morning.

If Detroit don't come back, tough, they have given up hope that they individually can make a positive impact, so to the heck with 'em, it wuz their choice.

jadedfellow said...

ps:

For any folks who want to take charge of their own outcomes without codependency I suggest the following,

The Road Less Traveled. M. Scott Peck.

The Road Less Traveled And Beyond. M. Scott Peck.

I'm Ok-You're Okay. Thomas A. Harris.

Too Nice For Your Own Good. Duke Robinson.

It's your life that was granted to you, take charge or something you may not want will take control of it.

Pss,

Don't forget about the Word. That is where truth is.

Anonymous said...

"Here's a flash. Parts of this country are never coming back."

Ducky, is that the plan or are you just blowing in the wind again?

Never is a long time Ducky. Never say never!

Pris

Z said...

Jadedfellow "Don't forget about the Word. That is where truth is."
Amen to that.

But, I'M OKAY, YOU'RE OKAY? !!!:-)

Deborah on the Bayside said...

I've seen it. My office is headquartered in Detroit, and I've done many field visits to our projects in the urban core. In fact, one of those streets looked very familiar. The tragedy is they aren't getting any smarter. The head of my company was an enthusiastic Obamamian. He's been disappointed that things haven't "turned around" yet. Or that California is still in the tank because it's come out of recession fast before.

There seems to be no comprehension that he's promoting more of the same urban death. And he's a very smart and sincere guy. Very sad.

I hope we're smarter as a nation in November.

beamish said...

C'mon now. Detroit has been under Democratic Party rule for 48 consecutive years and counting. It's hardly fair to compare Detroit to cities run by competent people.

As I'm always quick to point out, a political party that can't even figure out how to run a city should never be placed in charge of a nation.

Z said...

"a political party that can't even figure out how to run a city should never be placed in charge of a nation."

exactly, Beamish

Ducky's here said...

Well, we could handle this the Randoid way. Eliminate all taxes.

Of course property values are down to near nothing in Detroit so there is no property tax coming in, unemployment is sky high so income taxes are limited. Business has left the city so that source goes nowhere.

There isn't enough coming in for even basic services like police, fire, snow removal but never mind.

Eliminate taxes, the Libertarian answer to everything and the reason they can't be taken seriously.

Craig and Heather said...

There isn't enough coming in for even basic services like police, fire, snow removal but never mind.

Eliminate taxes, the Libertarian answer to everything and the reason they can't be taken seriously.



Don't you think that second statement is just a bit of an exaggeration?

Can't speak for others who claim libertarian status, but I'd most closely identify as "libertarian" and don't advocate a no tax policy.

Taxation for purpose of administration of properly (legally and ethically) defined govt activity is not the problem. Abuse of the system by both our leadership and much of our citizenry is the problem.

H

Ducky's here said...

Do I think it's an exaggeration?

Nope.

And in the case of Detroit, suggesting that eliminating taxes in a city that hasn't much of a tax base to begin with is a prime example of shallow, knee-jerk thinking which really ramped up when Saint Ronnie Raygun taught the right wingers to hate government and really accelerated our current trip to nowhere.

I wish Libertarians would move to one of there no government paradises like Somalia rather than trying to bring the Somali experience to more American cities.

Z said...

"And in the case of Detroit, suggesting that eliminating taxes in a city that hasn't much of a tax base to begin with is a prime example of shallow, knee-jerk thinking which really ramped up when Saint Ronnie Raygun taught the right wingers to hate government and really accelerated our current trip to nowhere."

Really? Who's suggesting Detroit, which you rightly say hasn't much of a tax base, would suddenly spring back to where it was before Democrat control because of no taxes? It's going to take more than that.

FrogBurger said...

Not having a tax base and high taxation are two different things.

Sometimes having high taxes kill the tax base b/c people who can pay taxes leave.

I guess that's too hard to comprehend for some. But ask my liberal friends who just left CA to move to Colorado.

FrogBurger said...

I wish Libertarians would move to one of there no government paradises like Somalia

Libertarianism doesn't mean lawlessness. Is it that hard to fathom?

I wish you could move to North Korea.

Craig and Heather said...

I wish Libertarians would move to one of there no government paradises like Somalia rather than trying to bring the Somali experience to more American cities.

Shucks.

If my primary identity was attached to libertarianism, you might have hurt my feelings.


To bad. I'm still your friend :P


Frogburger's right in stating that libertarianism is not about creating an anarchist state of "no" government. Rather, it promotes minimal civil govt oversight while strongly encouraging individuals to take personal responsibility for their own actions.

FB and I might disagree on my addition that a truly successful libertarian environment would rely heavily on the type of internal regulation that comes from spiritual regeneration.

And I definitely would disagree with the idea that there should be no taxes of any kind.

H

FrogBurger said...

And I definitely would disagree with the idea that there should be no taxes of any kind.

I didn't say there should be no taxes. We have to pay to run the government, even the limited one.

But I think we should pay taxes based on services. So I'd rather have a military tax, a justice tax, etc... All of that with allocated budgets that are enforced. This would enforce budget discipline and visibiliy. Like a regular household.

Income tax is theft to me. Property tax is basically a scam where government actually uses profit and market-based principles to grab as much money as it can.

FrogBurger said...

FB and I might disagree on my addition that a truly successful libertarian environment would rely heavily on the type of internal regulation that comes from spiritual regeneration.

I agree. But people are then free to choose the way to be spiritual. And actually there's more spirituality in free societies than in state-run societies.

I can tell the difference between the level of faith, spirituality and ethics between France and the US.

When you read the horror of the French revolution once the extreme statists and atheists took over, you really understand that freedom fosters greater virtue and spiritual values.

Craig and Heather said...

I didn't say there should be no taxes. We have to pay to run the government, even the limited one.

FB,

I know you didn't say that. Ducky seems to think you did, though. So I was stressing that, as someone of libertarian leaning, I know for a fact that "no taxes" is not an inherent belief among the species..

Make sense?


I see nothing wrong with tailoring the taxes to be specifically related to the areas of govt they are meant to support. It would probably cut a lot of pork.

H

Deborah on the Bayside said...

It will take a lot more than fewer taxes to bring back Detroit. They have to unhook the IV to the unions and Democratic party first. But it's a step in the right direction. as things stand they have been losing their 25-35 demographic in a big way -- just before those people graduate into their highest tax brackets. And keeping the ones who need to be fed by the gov't. Very ugly.

One of our clients is capitalizing on the large swaths of vacant land by starting an industrial sized urban farming model.

Craig and Heather said...

When you read the horror of the French revolution once the extreme statists and atheists took over, you really understand that freedom fosters greater virtue and spiritual values.

It certainly can, as long as citizens remember that freedom is a gift to be received with gratitude and properly managed.

The sadly prevalent "society owes me" mentality is incredibly destructive.

H

Z said...

Deborah"One of our clients is capitalizing on the large swaths of vacant land by starting an industrial sized urban farming model."

I like the sound of that...is it going well? Or too much RED TAPE (and I do mean "RED" these days :-)


Heather, "The sadly prevalent "society owes me" mentality is incredibly destructive." I think this is one of the biggest and most damaging changes of the 20th century,you're so right. People hadn't believed that before, but when we cater to those who NEED instead of those who SUCCEED, this is what happens.

Ducky's here said...

If we were serious about this issue it would be worthwhile to cover the U.S. Social Forum which took place in Detroit a couple weeks ago.

Where there any useful ideas? How would the right know?

What do poor residents do about food in a city that does not have a single large grocery store in it's city limits? So the forum focuses on growing your own food, community gardens and why the thousands of vacant lots can't be given to that purpose. Not as exciting as "CUT TAXES" but it might actually help people.

The alternative is a clip of some jackass walking around and looking for someone to blame, making no sense at all and letting the fringe right give that self righteous snicker for instructing the po' folk.

Z said...

Ducky, who the hell's heard of the US SOCIAL FORUM?
Why not tell us more about it?
Why can't you discuss something without blaming the Right? MY GOD..if there are good ideas, keep them coming.

As for that "GUY"...thank GOD there are people showing the truth to us. I, for one, didn't know there were neighborhoods in that terrible disrepair in this COUNTRY. He's not walking around "looking for someone to blame"...he's very clear on who's to blame. WATCH and THEN criticize.

Want to tell us why there are no grocery stores? Or are you afraid to? You go first, then I'll tell you. thanks.

Ducky's here said...

Ducky, who the hell's heard of the US SOCIAL FORUM?

--------------

Q.E.D.

Pick up the Democracy Now or Thom Hartmann podcast.

The Nation is running a feature on it this week also.

You just have to get off the track, z. But everyone in the world knows about Breitbart's little scam, don't they?

Craig and Heather said...

Ducky,

What do poor residents do about food in a city that does not have a single large grocery store in it's city limits? So the forum focuses on growing your own food, community gardens and why the thousands of vacant lots can't be given to that purpose. Not as exciting as "CUT TAXES" but it might actually help people.

Who was snickering about the horrible situation?

I personally thought the urban garden concept was commendable.

The problem is multifaceted and some cite excessive taxation or entitlement attitude while others recognize a need for trapped but resourceful citizens to become more self-sufficient.

Neither perspective is wrong and it's foolish to fight about it.

None of us is going to hit every single issue with equal fervor. It doesn't mean that any one person/group cares more or less than the others.

Why does this have to be an either-or thing?

Why can't we all accept there's plenty of blame to go around and acknowledge that unless we are willing to honestly look at the problem from ALL angles, we'll just continue to shred what's left of our country with our own hands????

H

Ducky's here said...

because, Heather, especially since Reagan, the right is strictly 'my way or the highway'.
They are absolutely incapable at this stage to accept complex solutions. It's strictly 'cut taxes' and prove you are completely tunnel vision by calling a limp, right of center figurehead a 'socialist'. As The Progressive said this month, 'I Wish'.

FrogBurger said...

It certainly can, as long as citizens remember that freedom is a gift to be received with gratitude and properly managed.

Yes but some people think that "properly managed" means eliminating freedom.

I think in a free society, there's a lot of trust that goes into it. I have trust in individuals even though there'll be some crooks and criminals.

The opponents of freedom don't have that trust. They have trust in the collective. Which is being totally blind and ignorant of history.

Craig and Heather said...

because, Heather, especially since Reagan, the right is strictly 'my way or the highway'.

Well Ducky, I must respectfully say that either your mistaken about all of "the right" or I'm something other than "the right".

And, since I can't identify as "leftist", I apparently live in no man's land.

Cool.
I could get myself shot as a traitor by either side.

Anonymous said...

Excellent video, Z. That's pretty much life in the Motor City today, except it is worse to actually see it with your own eyes. Weeds are taking over the streets, roads and freeways. A perfect monument to the "progressive" socialist mentality, and just like BO, "progressive" socialists do their damnedest to point the finger of blame at somebody else. Juvenile delinquents ...

I'd have to say that Detroit is the closest thing you will find in North America to Zimbabwe — and I mean that from a direct perception of reality to the politics that caused this disaster and continue on.

Waylon

Anonymous said...

Ducky: "They are absolutely incapable at this stage to accept complex solutions."

Go ahead Ducky, give it your best shot. Give us your "complex solution". And take as much time and space as you need to solve THIS problem. I'm patient ...

Waylon

Anonymous said...

"And now they are at the point where Keynesian theory posits that they can't claw their way out. You get to a level where economic revitalization is not possible without external input."

Huh?

Keynesian theory caused the demise of Detroit?

Finally even Europe seems to be awakening to the fact that Keynes is now the defunct economist of whom he eloquently wrote decades ago — funny how that works, no?

Not even the most rabid frothing and foaming at the mouth "progressive" can deny that socialism, Fabian Socialism and Keynes as one of its chief theoreticians has been tried and can now be seen to be the CAUSE of today's "financial crisis". But that is where it was intended to go just as Lenin and Keynes both recognized long ago.

Waylon

Ducky's here said...

Keynes was a socialist? Are you just ignorant or does any theory which advocates non-defense spending constitute "socialism".

The right really should stop using the word.

Who was the first political economist to warn about the dangers of the concentration of income? Marx?

No it was Adam Smith, old Mr. Invisible Hand but just as none of you have ever read Das Kapital, you have never read "Wealth of Nations" either.

Really, give this socialism thing a rest until you get a clue.

Z said...

Waylon, Ducky can slam you (by the way, can you tell me why you think Keynes was a socialist?) and then he can ignore your request for 'complex solutions' I'm sure he's brimming over with since he is a liberal.

Anonymous said...

I think the quickest way to discover the truth about Keynes is simply to Google for the information. Along with several early 20th Century British intellectuals he belonged to the Fabian Socialists — including many others but also George Bernard Shaw, H. G. Wells and Aldous Huxley.

Those who pretend that Keynes was a "capitalist" are just part of the BIG LIE of disinformation spread to hide the true intent and meaning of those who are set on destroying the foundations of Western Civilization. Like all true socialists they assert the true enemy is capitalism which must be destroyed but their true intent is to enslave all to the state — just as the Bolsheviks and National Socialists did.

Ducky, explain why any country that operates under the idea of "central banking" a body which manipulates all aspects of the economic life of the country by manipulating interest rates and creating a worthless currency out of nothing is actually looking out for the best interests of that country. A government that creates ever more restrictive laws to "regulate" the productive economy is not capitalist but corporatist and moving toward even more absolutist in its interference with all aspects of life.

Gawd, I thought an "intellectual" such as you would have some familiarity with the subjects you introduce on a discussion forum — obviously I was wrong.

As a Harvard "intellectual" and graduate of "Marxist economics" the minimum of information you need is contained in this little gem of a book written by a group of Harvard insiders who understood Keynes:

http://www.keynesatharvard.org/

Waylon

Anonymous said...

Like any study by any individual or group pursuing the truth trying to make the facts of reality fit a predetermined end, too many simply fall for the long accepted lie that socialism is the way of progress to a bright and enlightened future. Ducky, since you claim to be "in the neighborhood" of the subject of leftism at Harvard, do you actually let facts, reality and truth intrude into your predetermined world of leftist make believe?

Here's an excellent snippet from the Introduction to the book linked above:

"A number of years ago when the disorders were being brewed our study was initiated with the hope that preventive measures could be taken. Analysis of the over-all field of education revealed that Harvard, more than any other university, was a chief source of leftist infection.

Harvard is the oldest college in the United States, and ever since its foundation has been considered all over the world as our leading American educational institution. Harvard has managed to choose brilliant teachers, thereby maintaining a position of leadership in the educational field. Colleges and graduate schools all over the United States have eagerly sought Harvard-trained men for their faculties.

We started with the premise that Harvard was the leading institution of education in the United States. So we asked ourselves two questions, First, had Harvard lost its leadership? And second, was Harvard providing the wrong sort of leadership?

A brief study convinced us that Harvard had not lost its leadership. We then decided to make a careful study of what was taught at Harvard and by whom and to inform the graduates accordingly.

The study was planned to be purely factual. No recommendations were to be made. No changes were to be suggested. It was decided to make a factual study of the subjects taught, the text books used plus the background and character of those teaching the subjects. After the study, it was planned to bring the facts before the general public. We felt that it is the duty of the graduates, as well as within their power, to impose any changes they wish, provided they are furnished with the true facts."

Is that offensive to your leftist "sensibilities"?

Waylon

Anonymous said...

Another enlightening quote from the Introduction:

"There is a difference between the Fabians on one extreme and the Communists and Fascists on the other. However, it is merely a difference in methods. The Fabians believe in “easing” into absolute power by deceit. The Communists and Fascists believe in attaining power quickly by violence. The ends are the same since absolute power can only be maintained by repression.

The “Keynes” school of this “political underworld” is particularly adept at this Machiavellian method of advancing tyranny. You will read in the ensuing thoroughly documented text, how Keynes publicly pretended that he was “saving capitalism.” You will also see how he despised the dupes of the upper classes who believed him.

Keynes’ American followers in the Harvard economics department, together with those they have planted throughout the various colleges of the United States, are adept at this art. As a result, many big businessmen have swallowed hook, line and sinker, the so-called “Keynesian economics.” And because the Keynesians have made the dose so tasty and disguised its flavor, some businessmen have not only swallowed the Keynes economics, but have themselves advanced far down the path of Fabianism. They have been taught by the very group that plans their destruction to vilify and savagely attack not only those who oppose Fabianism but even those who attack Communism."

Now are going to pretend there is no relationship between Fabian Socialism and John Maynard Keynes and the "financial crisis" in today's world, Ducky?

Waylon

Ducky's here said...

Waylon, we regulate markets because they cannot be left on their own without dire consequences, as we are experiencing right now.

Again, I go back to Smith and Ricardo and virtually every other major economist. The idea wasn't completely rejected until Ayn Rand, who isn't an economist at all.

Pure Libertarianism HAS NEVER WORKED. At least it hasn't worked to the benefit of any but a few. Much is made out of China's advance and general elevation of much of the populace to a level of at least more consumption of consumer goods.
Pure capitalism? Then why do they have a strict central bank (which kept them out of this free market melt down)? In fact name a relatively modern state that DOESN'T have a central bank.
Like most Libertarians you argue against central fiscal policy when you should argue against poor fiscal policy. Poor policy like that of Ayn Rand's favorite boy Alan Greenspan, whose laissez-faire policy was THE MAJOR contributor to the current recession.
Even Greenspan, a Libertarian knuckle dragger if there ever were one, has admitted HE WAS WRONG. Markets will not necessarily self correct.

As for Keynes, he had no desire to tear down the market economy. His radical thinking came from his theories of aggregate demand. Nothing we see as radical today. I still believe your objection is over government spending.

I have very little contact with Harvard outside the film archives.

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with this thought. The main trouble Libertarians create for themselves, beyond the cults of personality, is an inability to see any limits or contradictions in their theory. Failures simply occur because we didn't have enough Libertarianism. That's why you are never taken seriously.

Ducky's here said...

I typed out a long reply to Waylon.
Posted.
Got the Long Message error

and it was wiped out.

I may try again at some other time.

Meanwhile, I'll ask Waylon why even Ayn Rand's fair hared boy, Greenspan, admitted he was wrong and markets are NOT self correcting.

Ducky's here said...

Waylon, not very gentlemanly not to state that your site is a Ron Paul shrine.

One of the lead articles calls the central bankers communists.

At that point bye-bye. Q.E.D.

Ducky's here said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Z, I recall some time ago on your blog when I brought up the subject of George Bernard Shaw and his being an important member of the British Fabian Socialist society. I forget who it was defending him and the idea that this group was a well-meaning group that wouldn't impose traditional socialism on any country. Traditional socialism being the variety that culls the population of opposition as per the USSR and Hitler's National Socialism.

It seems there are those who cannot accept that the Fabian Socialists were early adopters of Marxism. There exists plenty of evidence — in their own words — showing the likes of GBS were advocates of a socialist state in which certain members of those countries would become expendable ... i.e. executed. Of course, being the humanitarian socialist he was, GBS, saw this as being for the "greater good" of the new socialist society.

BTW, recently, while passing by a yard sale at a church in my neighborhood, I came across a copy of "Major Barbara" and bought it for the sum of $0.25. What I found more interesting that the play itself was a lengthy preface written by GBS discussing his thinking, his ideas and what he attempts to convey in his writing. There can be no doubt that his plays were a vehicle to expound his politics of socialism. Even in that preface he discusses his ideas of removing undesirables from the population ... humanely, of course with an injection.

Keynes was part of this group but he was an economist whose ideas were adopted by FDR — so it's like two forces combining to advance to a common end — being the destruction of freedom and individualism. That's apparent today to even a more casual observer, IMO.

Waylon

Anonymous said...

"I'll ask Waylon why even Ayn Rand's fair hared boy, Greenspan, admitted he was wrong and markets are NOT self correcting."

Ducky, I'll admit that puzzled me for a time, as well. But I think the surest way to the truth is to look at Greenspan in context — not only his days as an Ayn Rand acolyte. His career in the New York banking community. His work with some of the Rockefeller banks could be a better hint to what led to his career at the Federal Reserve. Or do you think somebody like, say David Rockefeller has zero influence of the events of a good part of the last century? Or at least since the creation of the United Nations? Hate to break this to you but there is every indication that he's sympathetic to Fabian Socialism — from his actions and political biases as well as his writing a post graduate paper on that group.

So I'd think Greenspan was more influenced by Rockefeller than Ayn Rand — Rand couldn't have helped him career wise in the government or at the FED.

Waylon

Craig and Heather said...

we regulate markets because they cannot be left on their own without dire consequences, as we are experiencing right now.

But Ducky,

In our country, the govt's been meddling in the marketplace for decades. In spite of what some may want to believe, we have had elements of socialism involved in our "capitalistic" society for a very long time.


How can you be sure of which element has significantly contributed to --and quite possibly hastened-- the economic disaster we now have?

I'm still thinking that the "bad" aspects of both co-existing systems have been worked by selfish people on both ends of the spectrum. You're seeing one side--others here see different problems.

It's not very discerning to insist that capitalism is entirely to blame. Inherent human nature can wreck up even the best laid of governmental/economic plans.

Greed and hunger for power is what drives people to abuse others. Simply instituting and enforcing a different form of resource-management system is not going to make that go away.




Heather

Anonymous said...

"... we regulate markets because they cannot be left on their own without dire consequences, as we are experiencing right now."

Ducky, I'll leave it up to you to explain when markets were unregulated, IMO, when you have a central bank manipulating the currency and interest rates the most vital components of that country are in the hands of the regulators. Are you talking before 1913 and the "progressive" era and the onset of big government regulation?

Waylon

Anonymous said...

"Waylon, not very gentlemanly not to state that your site is a Ron Paul shrine."

I'm guessing that informative book was written long before entered politics. But I wouldn't condemn Ron Paul for embracing fundamental truth found in the real world, would you, Ducky?

How can central banking not be part of creating a controlled society ... JFK knew that. Wake up, man!

Waylon