Sunday, July 11, 2010

"Don't TREAD ON ME" Sunday FAITH blog??

"The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name." He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." Luke 10:17-20

The Gadsen Flag is pretty fairly described in THIS Wikipedia entry. At church on July 4th, the Luke passage above was in the Gospel Reading and it struck me that this is where our forefathers got the phrase "Don't Tread On Me" and where they got the inspiration for the snake image and I thought I'd share that here today. Their implication is that snakes and scorpions are trying to overcome us but we have the God-given authority to trample on those snakes and scorpions.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is FREEDOM"
2 Corinthians 3:17 Maybe we can only have freedom anymore if we
remember that we will not be trampled or tread on, and that 'nothing will harm' us in the most important, eternal way when God's with us; Gadsen probably felt it then and many of us feel this in America today..........LET FREEDOM RING!
Have a very blesssd Sunday, everyone.
z

45 comments:

psi bond said...

Americans are a race of convicts and ought to be thankful for anything we allow them short of hanging.
— Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

It had been the policy of Britain to send convicted criminals to America, so Franklin suggested that they thank the British by sending rattlesnakes to England.
— Wikipedia

Z said...

psi bond, thanks for finding the quotes so late in the night!
Sounds like what they'd have said about Australians! They really WERE convicts when they started out.
Franklin's satire is very amusing, too. Thanks!

JINGOIST said...

Thanks Z for the very interesting read. And happy sabbath to you!

Chuck said...

Great insight Z.

I've always liked the "Don't tread on me" slogan but just took it a face value. I never gave much thought to it's origins.

Have a good day.

Z said...

I hadn't, either, Chuck...sitting there in church it dawned on me that this is exactly how that happened..or sure seems like it.

Thanks,Jingo, same to you.

Anonymous said...

We have a Gadsden flag. It's history is interesting and most appropriate today. I see them flying fairly often these days.

So much is said in those four powerful words.

Pris

psi bond said...

Last weekend, as the House prepared to vote on the health care overhaul legislation, a group of Republican lawmakers unfurled a large "Don't Tread on Me" flag from a balcony of the Capitol building, rallying their supporters below. The flag has become a staple at Tea Party rallies.
— npr.org, March 25, 2010

You can get your Tea Party Patriot “Don’t tread on me” mugs (15 oz.) online. Also Tea Party Patriot “Don’t tread on me” flag pins. Not to mention T-shirts, hats, decals, and welcome mats.

I’ve heard, but it may be apocryphal, that “Don’t tread on me” is a Christian motto that originated with Jesus’ teaching to his disciples. But it may have actually been “Don’t bleed on me”.

Historically speaking, of course, reality is apocryphal.

Elmers Brother said...

I’ve heard, but it may be apocryphal, that “Don’t tread on me” is a Christian motto that originated with Jesus’ teaching to his disciples. But it may have actually been “Don’t bleed on me”.

You heard wrong.

beamish said...

Don't mind PissBong. As a leftist, he is ideologically obligated to leave no doubt that he is an imbecile. Sort of a bargain bin Ducky.

psi bond said...

Don't mind Blemish. He appeals to a small, select group of confused people.

psi bond said...

I’ve heard, but it may be apocryphal, that “Don’t tread on me” is a Christian motto that originated with Jesus’ teaching to his disciples. But it may have actually been “Don’t bleed on me”.

Bro: You heard wrong.

You may have heard right, Bro. Although “Don’t tread on me” seems to be something Jesus would have said, it could have originally been, "Don't breathe on me."

Elmers Brother said...

You may have heard right, Bro. Although “Don’t tread on me” seems to be something Jesus would have said, it could have originally been, "Don't breathe on me."

well I've actually read the NT.

Craig and Heather said...

I'm confused.


Why would Americans want to adopt a motto that represents the Serpent who's head was crushed by Christ's heel?

It seems a little backwards to me...

H

Craig and Heather said...

Don't mind Blemish. He appeals to a small, select group of confused people.

But his puppy's cute :)

Elmers Brother said...

Everyone move along here....the trolls do not need feeding.

psi bond said...

Don't mind Blemish. He appeals to a small, select group of confused people.

Craig: But his puppy's cute :)

So's mine :-)

psi bond said...

You may have heard right, Bro. Although “Don’t tread on me” seems to be something Jesus would have said, it could have originally been, "Don't breathe on me."

Bro: well I've actually read the NT.

You’re not alone, Bro. However, there are many sayings of Jesus that did not make it into the canonical version.

psi bond said...

Everyone move along here....the trolls do not need feeding.

You’re right, Bro. Feeding Blemish is an all-consuming pastime.

Craig and Heather said...

Everyone move along here....the trolls do not need feeding.

I was asking in all seriousness.

H

Faith said...

Here's a link on the history of the Gadsden flag.

It has nothing to do with the Bible and is as far as anything could be from the spirit of Christ.

Z said...

Faith, thanks...I have seen all that information but thanks for posting it so others can.
I wouldn't necessarily say the snake on the flag had nothing to do with my scripture verse..it probably doesn't, but this is totally my conjecture and I think it might well have been consciously or subconsciously part of it.
We can't ever know that!

Craig and Heather said...

Thanks, Faith.

That was interesting.

psi bond said...

Faith: It has nothing to do with the Bible and is as far as anything could be from the spirit of Christ.

Thanks, Faith, for your agreement. I knew intuitively that, considering all that I've heard about his teachings, "Don't tread on me" is not something Jesus could ever have said. That is, those who embrace this motto as their own are not echoing Jesus or the spirit of what he taught.

Faith said...

Hi Z, you know oddly enough I didn't even register that you had a Bible verse you'd connected with the image, but now that I notice I do have to say that you seem to have a couple things confused here. The flag represents the original colonies --and now America-- as a rattlesnake that will strike if you tread on it, but if you identify Satan with the serpent and Christ's defeating him, then you don't want THAT representing America, right? Or have I completely missed your point?

Craig and Heather said...

Faith:
The flag represents the original colonies --and now America-- as a rattlesnake that will strike if you tread on it, but if you identify Satan with the serpent and Christ's defeating him, then you don't want THAT representing America, right?

That's the part that was not making sense to me. I can understand the intended symbolism apart from the Bible, but was wondering about the serpent-treading scriptural connection. It becomes especially confusing if one holds to the view of America as a specifically Christian nation.


Something to ponder, I suppose.

H

Faith said...

Yes, it is confusing. I'm sure Z didn't have in mind Christ treading on the serpent, symbolically stamping on America, or being defeated by the disciples, or the idea of America "falling from heaven" either, so she must have been reading it some other way.

Can't say I like the image of a rattlesnake for America at all myself, though it's easy enough to see how Franklin put it together --from the image of the thirteen colonies along the serpentine coastline and the idea that they needed to be united to accomplish anything. And I suppose it's innocent enough to represent a simple warning to leave us alone. But . . .

psi bond said...

“Don’t tread on me” is not a Christian message.

psi bond said...

As Faith put it, it “is as far as anything could be from the spirit of Christ.”

Elmers Brother said...

I did not make the connection from Jesus to this motto in Zs post and thought it was Psi Bond who was suggesting that somehow Jesus and this motto were connected or that it was part of scripture. Hence my vague and perhaps oblique comment that he had heard wrong, meaning Jesus never said such a thing.

Elmers Brother said...

now shoo fly

Z said...

A quick word because of the confusion and I'm out of here... could someone tell me where my post says that Jesus said to use a snake and to say DON'T TREAD ON ME?

My whole point, as I said in the post and subsequent comments here, is that the inspiration for the quote could have come from those verses!
'I like the sound of that...let's use the snake and 'don't tread on me' on a flag, it's as powerful and angry as we are'

Sorry, folks, that was my post and taking it this far's been yours, not mine...Elbro saw the lack of connection. "Inspiration"..."I like those words, let's use them"..as my post suggests.

Craig and Heather said...

My whole point, as I said in the post and subsequent comments here, is that the inspiration for the quote could have come from those verses!
'I like the sound of that...let's use the snake and 'don't tread on me' on a flag, it's as powerful and angry as we are'




Sorry Z


I have no problem with the concept of "inspiration", but the potential connection to that inspiration being from verses which portray "the good guys" as the ones who stomp on the snakes made me do a double take.

You mentioned scripture and my brain went into overdrive. Will try to better weigh whether my thoughts could be considered offensive.

H

Z said...

Heather, 'offensive' has nothing to do with it. Many extrapolated too much from my post. Not only you.
Thanks.

Faith said...

Dear Z, I should maybe leave well enough alone, but I really do think you need to seriously reconsider connecting the snake on the flag, which represents America refusing to be trampled on, with the snake in scripture which is always the bad guy that IS to be trampled on. There is something confusing about your post, it isn't just us.

Z said...

we aren't the snake.

Craig and Heather said...

Z,

we aren't the snake.

Ah. That explains some things. I didn't think you personally were equating America with satanic defiance, but I was assuming that "we" are supposed to be the snake, demanding to not be stepped on. That seems to be what is indicated by the link Faith offered, too.

Is your understanding the commonly held view, then?

I mean, the perspective that America is not the snake that refuses to be stomped?

This isn't a matter of debate for me and I wasn't meaning to pick apart your post topic.
I'm just trying to understand the thinking behind the historic use of the symbol.

If my questions are becoming annoying, just tell me to sit on my hands and I'll drop it.

Heather

Faith said...

We ARE the snake on the flag, Z. It's clear you aren't seeing it that way but that's what the flag means, we are the snake on the flag, don't tread on the snake, don't tread on America or we will bite.

OK, I won't say any more.

Anonymous said...

"Is your understanding the commonly held view, then?"

My understanding is, the snake has long since slithered away, and you're now "beating the proverbial dead horse"!

Pris

Z said...

I stand by my post and i believe the scripture could have inspired ANYONE, whether the snake or the enemy snake, if you want to know the truth.
Whether it had to EXACTLY echo Scripture in all its meanings and implications is not the question here.

I'm done.

Elmers Brother said...

I guess I need a bigger spray can.

psi bond said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
psi bond said...

“Don’t tread on me” does not resemble anything Jesus is known to have said.

It’s the sort of thing you expect to see emblazoned on the T-shirts of Hell’s Angels — not on Church doors and altars, or coming out of the mouths of pastors.

Its belligerence and arrogance are contrary to everything good in the Christian gospel.

Z said...

that's exactly what I've been trying to say. Thanks, psi bond.

ZeusTheta said...

Please do not mistake this flag for anything other than what it was. The people who flew it IDENTIFIED with the snake, not saw the snake as the enemy. THEY were saying "Don't tread on me, lest I bite your heel."

In truth, this flag was satanic, and leads me to question our forefathers who erected it. It disturbs me greatly to this day, supposed God fearing men and women would identify with a venomous serpent.

Theophilus said...

What it means is that the tea party is the devil telling jesus to leave them alone with his talk of giving away our money to the poor and healing the sick. The tea party loves money. So Jesus says to his true disciples who obey him and want to help the poor and heal the sick. Kick those tea party snakes back to hell where they came from. God says to the tea party, "the poor will dance on your heads at the judgement, "in as much as you helped the least of these you helped Jesus"