There's supposedly money in there for removing tattoos from gang members, too. How stimulating is that?z
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49 comments:
Is there anything in the porkulus package to remove black marks from the White House? And the big bruise on Biden's head, what happened, did NObama smack him for being stupid?
No stimulus package for liposuction.
Bummer.
[sarcasm]
That's a great cartoon.
All this harping. So what does the class suggest:
1. Do nothing -
I haven't heard any support for this and frankly we all know that the economy can't right itself. It's insolvent worldwide.
2. Tax cuts -
The standard position of Libertarians when we have a disaster caused by Libertarian policy is that we didn't have enough Libertarianism. So do folks believe we should continue with a policy that has been a failure? How do we finance the additional debt level?
3. Keynesian stimulus -
Our best hope, I think but it has to be done properly. I read people harp about the small amounts for volcanic research (and since none of you are geologists you might not be aware of the value, right?) but what about the money for a high speed rail network. That's the sort of thing that creates jobs, generates growth and can't be done by the private sector (hasn't in any of the nations that have them).
My position is to look at this as dispassionately as possible and support something that has the best chance of working. Frankly, I think the right is more concerned with defending ideology than anything that benefits the country.
So what do you do?
Invest in productive labour...
Adam Smith, "Wealth of Nations"
Of the Accumulation of Capital, or of Productive and Unproductive Labour
THERE is one sort of labour which adds to the value of the subject upon which it is bestowed: there is another which has no such effect. The former, as it produces a value, may be called productive; the latter, unproductive labour. Thus the labour of a manufacturer adds, generally, to the value of the materials which he works upon, that of his own maintenance, and of his master's profit. The labour of a menial servant, on the contrary, adds to the value of nothing. Though the manufacturer has his wages advanced to him by his master, he, in reality, costs him no expense, the value of those wages being generally restored, together with a profit, in the improved value of the subject upon which his labour is bestowed. But the maintenance of a menial servant never is restored. A man grows rich by employing a multitude of manufacturers: he grows poor by maintaining a multitude of menial servants. The labour of the latter, however, has its value, and deserves its reward as well as that of the former. But the labour of the manufacturer fixes and realizes itself in some particular subject or vendible commodity, which lasts for some time at least after that labour is past. It is, as it were, a certain quantity of labour stocked and stored up to be employed, if necessary, upon some other occasion. That subject, or what is the same thing, the price of that subject, can afterwards, if necessary, put into motion a quantity of labour equal to that which had originally produced it. The labour of the menial servant, on the contrary, does not fix or realize itself in any particular subject or vendible commodity. His services generally perish in the very instant of their performance, and seldom leave any trace or value behind them for which an equal quantity of service could afterwards be procured.
Farmer, are you saying that high speed rail would not be a growth stimulus or are you saying that because it is built by government it is necessarily unproductive, unlike say Citi or GM or Bear Stearns?
You seem to support my contention that the right is much more interested in maintaining dogma than in providing solutions.
Now I understand how biblical literalists can fall into that trap of supporting secular dogma as a matter of course but I don't understand it in your case
For extra credit class:
The ascendance of the financial-services sector in the American economy, largely at the expense of the manufacturing sector, is in fact one of the problems we needs to fix ... yes or no.
Farmer made me realize that financial services has the potential to be an extreme source of unproductive activity.
High speed rail is fine, provided it's located in the places it's needed. Disneyland to Vegas is stupid. LA to Frisco, NY to Chicago, or Boston to DC on the other hand...
Ducky "Now I understand how biblical literalists can fall into that trap of supporting secular dogma as a matter of course but I don't understand it in your case"
Can you tell us how "biblical literalists" show they've fallen into a trap of supporting secular dogma? And, please, remind us how the only book ...ONLY information...which informs Christianity, should not be taken 'literally'? thanks. Or does Catholic dogma trump the Word of God? I'm curious. Thanks.
Then remind us what secular dogma is, in your opinion.
duhkkky....tattoo removal...a growth stimulus?
it's not just a matter of harping, it's called accountability. Something the left said was a huge issue when Bush was president but somehow we're supposed to ignore now?
oy
Financial services is the necessary medium by which capitalism works ducky. It's the "high speed rail" that moves money to all the "right" places (vs Obama's/Acorn's credit services to mortgage nowhere plan that gor us into this mess and deadheaded the nations capital to the freightyard where it's clogging the tracks)
duhkkky....tattoo removal...a growth stimulus?
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Anecdotal, deal with the questions asked.
The fact that this is not a perfect bill is obvious. "Perfect" legislation is never written.
Now if you have a response to the fundamental questions, I would like to read it.
mr. ducky and Congressional Democrats backing the Omnibus Spending bill want to subsidize poor people to ride the future Obama/Reid Disneyland to Vegas Express.
That's the high speed rail line to America's ruin.
Can you tell us how "biblical literalists" show they've fallen into a trap of supporting secular dogma?
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It is my belief, z, that biblical literalists extend the idea of revealed truth to economic and political systems.
They go so far as to believe that the founding of America was ordained by God and constitutes a revealed truth.
Any modifications are apostate.
America's economic/ financial system was more than a "revealed" truth, mr. Ducky.
It's time you heretics and non-believers got out of the kitchen.
Anecdotal, deal with the questions asked.
There's supposedly money in there for removing tattoos from gang members, too. How stimulating is that?
You first.
The fact that this is not a perfect bill is obvious. "Perfect" legislation is never written.
it's should be more 'perfect' than it is Duhkkky.
there are some 8,000 anecdotes in the Omnibus bill.
Well elmer, since you can't seem to deal with the larger question and need to dwell on trivia, tattoo removal can aid in gaining employment and lowering gang activity.
I don't think it's particularly effective but clearly the bill will NOT conform to our individual preferences.
In fact, in the case of the right wing it won't match ANY of their preferences, unless it is a highly beneficial(LMAO) 750 billion military ordnance bill.
Really, that's the key to growth, drop hundreds of billions of ordnance and then tool up to replace it. Right?
I think the right is more concerned with defending ideology than anything that benefits the country.
Bush lied, people died.
... tattoo removal can aid in gaining employment and lowering gang activity.
bwahhahahaa
750 billion in ordnance??? not likely...my guess is a lot of that is 'anecdotal' bridges.
duhkkky...maybe we should talk about the study of pig odor...now there's some pork!!
oops
750 billion in ordnance??? not likely...my guess is a lot of that is 'anecdotal' bridges to nowhere.
I looked to see if there was money for hair transplants. Getting this money would keep men like me from being stigmatized by a bald palate. Sadly, there doesn't appear to be any. I'm not sure why we couldn't get a measly $400 million or so. The Bald-Americans (or follicularly challenged as we prefer) need to unite and protest this injustice. We deserve this money.
Bush lied, people died.
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elmo, this is getting a little far afield but are you saying that Bush, Rice, Cheney, Powell and all DID NOT take advantage of right wing stupidity and fear to make you suckers believe that a country with no air force, no navy, no missiles, no armor, no artillery represented a threat and was liable to execute a night drop to sprinkle ricin in everyone's wheaties?
Are you denying he played the right for a nation of cowards on the world stage with one of the most effective propaganda blitzes in history?
Ducky, I SWEAR. You're sounding like an idiot now, no offense.
We have NEVER called you an IDIOT and you'll stop it here.
Do you freaking realize HALF THE COUNTRY disagrees with you? Are they ALL IDIOTS?
just stop it...argue like a big boy.
Thanks.
a country with no air force, no navy, no missiles, no armor, no artillery represented a threat and was liable to execute a night drop to sprinkle ricin in everyone's wheaties?
What country was THAT ducky? Certainly not Iraq. Certainly not Afghanistan, Either. Vatican City?
btw - Do commercial airliners count as missiles and the 4,000 resulting casualties BB-gun wounds?
elmo, this is getting a little far afield but are you saying that Bush, Rice, Cheney, Powell and all DID NOT take advantage of right wing stupidity and fear to make you suckers believe that a country with no air force, no navy, no missiles, no armor, no artillery represented a threat and was liable to execute a night drop to sprinkle ricin in everyone's wheaties?
Apparently duhkkky missed all that video on 9/11.
Bush lied, people died.
in response to the ideology bromide.
Bush lied. People died.
...like the left has no ties to ideology...
duhkkky I'm getting bored with you.
Do you freaking realize HALF THE COUNTRY disagrees with you?
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Disagree with me on what?
That Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? I figure Elmo is one of the few hold outs on that one.
Not sure what you are referring to, z.
Z.....We have NEVER called you an IDIOT and you'll stop it here....
Umm, I might be guilty on this one Z. I'm not sure if I actually verbalized it, but I damned well thought it, many many times.
z, if you look through my posts there is no instance when I called anyone an idiot.
I don't know what you are on about.
this is just the begining, we got four more years of this. next they will start filling pierced holes
Ducky, you know very well that you call conservatives idiots in every comment. it's so obvious that I didn't think I'd have to spell it out. I'm not "ON ABOUT" anything, just wishing you could argue like a man and stop belittling. Just talk.
Also, why can't you focus?
Emptysuit is right..today, obama's removing tattoos from gang members ( probably mostly illegal) and tomorrow it probably will be filling piercings.
you think that's stimulating, Ducky?
You think America suddenly has the money to do superfluous JUNK?
NO EARMARKS. EVen you can't believe that.
well I don't know where I tied 9/11 to Iraq...
I used the "Bush lied, people died" to illustrate that the left is not above the fray when it comes to putting ideology before the country.
Elbro, excellent sentiment here.
But, of course, Ducky will think it's still ideology above country..wait for it.
Ducky...you for badly needed stimulus money going to removing tattoos from gang members?
Ducky...you for badly needed stimulus money going to removing tattoos from gang members?
--------------------------
Once again, your position is anecdotal. The fact that there is a clause in the bill that you don't agree with is irrelevant. There is not a single person in America that agrees with the entire bill I'll venture.
Now there is benefit to having gang members remove their tattoos. Would I put that in a bill at the Federal level? No.
But the right was proven wrong on when they went on about "Pelosi's mouse" and they were proven wrong about the volcanic research clause so I don't doubt this was also part of some larger expenditure.
Doesn't matter, the question is the import of the entire bill and you are going to oppose that no matter what it contains.
President Obama unveiled a mammoth, $3.6 trillion budget yesterday that would dramatically boost federal spending almost across the board - and pay for it with tax hikes of $1 trillion on individuals and businesses over the next decade.
Yes, anybody who would oppose this leviathan on the basis of it's blubber content just can't be thinking right. This great white whale must escape the harpoon and be allowed to breed, indiscriminately.
Ducky,
But the right was proven wrong on when they went on about "Pelosi's mouse"
This is an explanation about Pelosi's mouse.
"There are no earmarks in this bill. There is no earmark for rats in San Francisco. There is money that goes to the EPA and the Department of the Interior for cleanup of wetlands and maintaining of wetlands and apparently this is on a list of ready-to-go projects but it, like many others, must compete within the departments for that money. It is not a specific earmark within the bill," he said. "That trivializes this bill." Rep. Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.)
I hope he stretched before he made that convoluted defense.
What he is saying is that the EPA wants to spend money on this rat, which is in Pelosi's district, and we're giving the EPA money to clean up swamps in Pelosi's district with rats in them, but there is not an earmark for the cleanup of swamps in Pelosi's district with rats in them? Glad that was cleared up.
Anyway, I started by asking what the right felt was appropriate action (or non action) to the current financial situation.
No, answer. It's like you've got your fingers crossed and pick a few trivial matters to harp on but you really don't seem to have convictions.
Ducky, you respond about tattoos, STDs, museums, etc., and don't address the point.
Is it deliberate obfuscation or do you really not get it?
What's difficult to read about "These are tough times, let's make it ONLY monies aimed at the ECONOMY?" Seems clear to me.
That, for one thing, would be any sensible person's 'solution' that you asked for.
another would be mcCain's idea of giving everyone $5000 for healthcare, allowing most Americans to have private insurance. Nobody cared, nobody listened. I don't necessarily like this, but it would have been better than what's happening.
I get it Duhkkky as long as it 'trickles down' from the gubmint then "a rising tide lifts all boats".
Elbro, if it trickles down Chris Matthews' leg FIRST! :-)
No, answer. It's like you've got your fingers crossed and pick a few trivial matters to harp on but you really don't seem to have convictions.
The answer is simple. Stop forcing banks to lend money to deadbeats on the basis of skin color and re-establish the practice of lending it on the basis of credit reports. Stop handing out welfare on the basis of income indiscriminately and start distinguishing the deserving from undeserving poor (widows from drug addicts, those who can work from those who can't through no fault of their own). Stop using the federal tax system to give eyesight to Plutus and return to every American the INALIENABLE right to pursue happiness as THEY would define it.
Fj, thanks..WHY is that so difficult to understand?
Meanwhile, they're still resodding the grass $$$
Resodding the grass or SMOKING it? This stimulus bill is in no way, shape, or form about the American people. It is all about the agenda of the farthest left wing of congress.
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