"The Amish believe it's the fundamental responsibility of the church to care for the material needs of the members of the church," said Steven Nolt, a professor at Goshen College who has written books on the Plain community of Amish.
"And so they don't buy commercial health insurance and they don't participate in public assistance programs."
So while most Americans would be required to sign up with insurance companies or government insurance plans, the church would serve as something of an informal insurance plan for the Amish.
Law experts say that kind of exemption withstands scrutiny."
Seems scrutiny-ready to ME. So, who's to say all our churches don't go into the business? I'd rather pay my CHURCH my $480 a month than Blue Shield or the Government, TRUST ME!
OH, and MUSLIMS MIGHT BE EXEMPT, TOO! It seems that...."Health insurance is haraam like other types of commercial insurance, because it is based on ambiguity, gambling and riba (usury). This is what is stated in fatwas by the senior scholars.
In Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah (15/277) there is a quotation of a statement of the Council of Senior Scholars concerning the prohibition on insurance and why it is haraam:
It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah (15/251): Firstly: Commercial insurance of all types is haraam because it involves ambiguity, riba, uncertainty, gambling and consuming people's wealth unlawfully, and other shar'i
Secondly: It is not permissible for the Muslim to get involved with insurance 
I'm so at a loss over this because it seems to me that none of us should have to buy anything we don't want to buy and, because that's being put upon us here very soon, we need to demand exemption, too, on the grounds that it is unconstitutional. Which it is, of course.
So....do you think people will be turning to the Amish church or Islam over this? No, of course not....probably not. But, is this only the start of the slippery slope of Islam or any other group getting exemptions from things American born Christians and Jews DON'T WANT either? Shouldn't we all be treated equally?
Oh, BROTHER.
(by the way, THIS kind of surprised me!)
z
23 comments:
Z,
I wonder if we'll get a constitutional exemption. After all, there is no provision in the constitution to compel a citizen to buy a good. Health care is a good that we cannot be compelled to buy. I wonder when we'll be compelled to buy a government-owned Chevy?
Commercial insurance of all types is haraam...
Do Moslems buy auto insurance here in America?
Sometimes.
And sometimes they cancel it - so I've been told by a cab company.
Moslem cabbies have to buy auto insurance to drive with a cab-company logo, but sometimes cancel the insurance policy later.
Just FYI.
As for the Amish, they've been exempted from certain matters for ages.
Christian Scientists are exempt from this nightmare too.
I could never become an Amishman, but I live very near an Amish Village, and see "the plain people" nearly every day. They run several restaurants in the immediate area, and are very good, no-nonsense business people.
They walk, ride bicycles and tricycles everywhere. Some of the younger ones use roller skates. They are in many ways very admirable people. Their "cuisine" is probably lethal to most of us -- LOADED with dough, fat, sugar and cholesterol -- but because of their austere lifestyle many of the Amish Senior Citizens are in MUCH better shape than most of our indolent, self-indulgent, wasteful, slothful teenagers and young adults.
Amish people -- at least here -- function superbly as home health aides, house-cleaners, gardeners, builders and makers of very solid, high-quality wooden furniture most of which is, unfortunately, as ugly as sin.
They are LOUSY at producing beautiful surroundings, they seem -- unlike the Shakers, who were uncommonly elegant craftsmen, -- the Amish and the Mennonites almost hostile to physical Beauty of any kind.
They are, however, incredibly honest and have probably the best work ethic left, besides the illegal Mexicans who -- in my experience -- have been incredibly helpful as well as trustworthy, cheerful, kind-hearted and reliable.
~ FreeThinke
Fascinating about the Amish. I've thought for years that the church should be doing things that we've been letting the culture do for us, and health care is a biggie. I think it's an indictment of American Christianity that we're so much in and of the world.
But there's the germ of an idea in the Amish attitude for how to get out of this abomination of a government health care program if the churches had the strength of character to do it.
woah. That link to "Amish Hospital" certainly surprised me too.
I couldn't find out for sure in a few minutes' searching but it seems to have Hindu connections. It may be an Indian institution rather than Christian Amish.
If I drove a horse and buggy on a busy highway....I'd get insurance!
Law and Order...exactly. WE think it's unconstitutional and iT IS...but we get no pass!!?
Always On Watch, so now we SHOULD be able to ask a cab driver if he's muslim (profiling!!) and, if he says yes, we have every right to get out of the car...who needs to have him cause an accident and have no insurance to cover our injuries, etc? I mean, ours would probably cover it, but who knows?
But, no, it's okay for the muslim to hang US out to dry, but God FORBID we PROFILE in this way, huh? :-)
BB..good point!!
Faith, Amish/Hindu? There must be something because I found that very weird and thought I'd throw it in...found it when I was researching a little bit for the post
FT...that's very interesting about an Amish area near you...I've been to Lancaster, PA (Intercourse, PA, as a matter of fact, that's the name of an Amish TOWN!) and I found it lovely...very simple, calm...
You're so right about Shakers..their furniture in particular was so beautiful, so clean lined. The food's very good too..basic, but good.
That hospital ad struck me as SUPER WEIRD. The Amish don't even wear MAKE UP -- their women wouldn't be caught dead wearing lipstick and from all appearances seem to believe that being glamorous and fashionable are unnecessary at best and downright wicked at worst.
There's a Mennonite church within walking distance from my house. I would feel very strange going in there, because it's so obvious I don't belong, but as far as I know they don't bar outsiders -- the way Muslims do.
Some day curiosity may get the better of me, and I'll go see what it's like. But frankly from the way terse, no-nonsense way these folk express themselves I probably wouldn't like it very much.
Whatever their customs and mores they are still fellow human beings.
But then, so are Communists, et al. ;-)
~ FreeThinke
I'm trying to get this straight - they can blow up a freakin' building but they can't buy insurance?
Chuck, I SWEAR we were twins separated at birth.
As I did this post, I kept thinking "They can BEHEAD but they can't buy insurance?"
:-) You'd like our mother, she's terrific!!! HEH!
Since when do we allow exemptions for certain groups in dealing with the government?
Suddenly, religion is considered by the government? I don't care what religion a person is either we all can opt out, or not.
Do people who send their children to private schools get a tax break?
This is exactly why freedom is so important, and why government should stay out of our lives.
Because everything is never equal all the time, and because one size never fit's all.
Do muslims use hospitals? If we were free we wouldn't care how they paid for it, and the same for everyone else.
As we can see, with the government, they can provide, they can discriminate, and they can withold, and there's not a thing we can do about it.
And this is just the beginning.
God help us all.
Pris
I think I know some people who go to that Mennonite church, oddly enough, FT. From another message board I post to occasionally, whose owners are based in Florida. The topics are all related to what constitutes the pure orignal church. I think a great deal of Amish and Mennonite thinking is more Biblical than what you find in the usual evangelical church. Including the attitude to makeup.
Here's a link showing that Amish Hospital IS Hindu, and the word probably has a Hindu meaning. Unfortunate.
About those cabbies....If they're "gypsy cabs," forget getting any compensation should an accident occur. Many gypsy cabbies aren't covered via the umbrella of a cab company.
In fact, around here, cabbies own their own cabs and are not covered by the cab company's insurance - never mind the cabs having a special color or logo. I know this for a FACT because I was permanently injured by a cabbie who owned his own cab and carried his own insurance. I carried liability coverage only on my older car and no med pay, either. In a law suit against the cab driver, I didn't get a settlement large enough to cover my medical expenses!
This whole thing is SO NOT RIGHT.
Opus, what ELSE is new, right?
AlwaysOnWatch...what would have happened had the driver had zero insurance>?
Maybe Obama will pay for insurance for the muslims....why not? Suits his sentiment and motivation. IMAGINE THAT HAPPENING? Well, six months ago, who'd have thought they could force Americans to buy insurnace ... or stop subsidizing banks so they could give students loans!! ??
Religious objections can possibly lead to exemptions, but intellectual objections can't?
Beamish, what's WITH that? Since WHEN are religious objections even important in America anymore?
Evangelical Christians have been objecting to a lot of awful things for years, but who cared?
Are the Amish FOR abortion: :-)
This is my next question about Obamacare and where it will lead us. If the government can require you to purchase something i.e. health care then does it logically follow that the government can also determine "who can and who can't purchase something"? Does that sound familiar? Sounds almost biblical to me. http://sosssn.blogspot.com/
Yahoo Headlines is now saying Republicans wanted this enforced buying of insurance until the Democrats did...Romney apparently touted it and now says it's awful.
Well, what the media doesn't understand is that a LOT of GOOD AMERICANS don't buy into everything the RNC says.
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