Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Lesbians at the for it?

You all heard that two lesbians wanted to go to their senior prom as a couple in Jackson, Mississippi, right?

Read THIS and see what's happening now. The article says: She (one of the lesbians) has appeared on the "The Early Show," "The Wanda Sykes Show" and "The Ellen DeGeneres Show" to talk about how she is fighting for tolerance. DeGeneres presented her with a $30,000 college scholarship from Tonic, a digital media company. A Facebook page set up by the ACLU for McMillen has over 400,000 fans.

Yes, well, it's pretty clear that some of us celebrate gay couples more than straight couples nowadays, I guess, don't we. Is this strictly a religious matter or something else? Please chime in as I'd like to know your opinions............
A prom is a boy/girl dance, has been since the inception of PROMS.........why not now? Are the lesbians intolerant of a high school desirous of keeping it that way? Is the school intolerant for keeping the girls out? Tell me.



Always On Watch said...

Is the school intolerant for keeping the girls out?


I don't like in-your-face displays of "alternative life styles."

Always On Watch said...

Over at the linked article, I found this comment, one of 55,000+ comments, in reaction to the cancellation of the prom:

It's sad that one person can ruin it for everyone. A minority of one telling a majority what can and can not be done. Like prayer before a sporting event - one complains and it's no longer allowed. Thank you ACLU (Americans Criminals Lovers Unions) for destroying this great nation.

Z said...

It does feel like Tyranny of the Minority, doesn't it, Always....

Anonymous said...

At one time, Promenade was part of the instructional program.

Its intention was to teach, practice, and reinforce proper social behavior in a formal setting. It allowed the men to dress in black tie, ladies in formal dresses, and the proms were chaperoned by teachers, parents, and administrators.

Today, proms are places for ostentatious displays of wealth. Daddy or Mommy will rent luxurious limousines so that their cretin offspring can gloat in the face of those not as well off. It is amazing too that the students who up until the day before ate breakfast, lunch and dinner at the public trough suddenly become wealthy enough to afford fancy cars and ritzy tuxedos. But wealth isn’t the only ‘in your face’ display. So too is sexuality.

The prom really only lasts for an hour … after that, the ‘children’ jump into their cars and hot rod it to a local hotel, where there are no rooms to be had within a four mile radius of the high school campus. As expressed in this article, the prom has become a tool to express a peculiar agenda … and I suppose it does make sense when you realize that most high school campuses host queer and lesbian clubs in order to give these ‘children’ the opportunity to express their unseemly individuality. So we can understand how Sally, wanting to dress like a man for the prom will be confused when she is finally told that we expect women to dress appropriately, as women, at promenade. It is the first time in 12 years she’s ever heard the word ‘no’ in the public school environment.


Mustang Sends

Ducky's here said...

Yes, well, it's pretty clear that some of us celebrate gay couples more than straight couples nowadays, I guess, don't we.


You deny them attendance at the prom and that's favoring gay couples?

This must be that right wing bizarro logic I've heard so much about.

Couple points:

1. When right wingers start complaining about "in your face" it means someone isn't far enough in the closet.

2. The kids are most likely far more tolerant and just marveling at what a bunch of clowns the administration is.

Leslie said...

The original intent of Prom was lost many decades ago. Now it is an event for alcohol/drug abuse and sexual debauchery.

I am surprised that high schools exist that wish to promote somewhat of the norm when it comes to male/female roles. We are so used to the public school system embracing the progressive lifestyle and beliefs...

Honestly, the whole event only presented the girl with the opportunity to be a mouth piece for the homesexual movement as well as getting her moment of fame --and free stuff! She is truly the prime example of the future American, no? Take the victim role, stand on a generated position of intolerance, hold your hand out, and you win.

Nothing surprises me anymore in this country.

beamish said...


Give it a rest. Just as it would be ridiculous to go to a hardware store for a steak, it's ridiculous to go to a leftist for an intellectual opinion. You practically ooze imbecility from every pore, so you're not well positioned to talk about logic. Even your trying to demonize adherence to traditional decorum in a school prom as "far right" has you defaulting to a leftists uncontrollable urge to say something stupid than contributing anything of relevence to the topic being discussed. Not that you could ever muster anything resembling intellect from your played out repetoire, but you're so far left that you've given up even trying.

I say if lesbians want to have a prom together, let them finance and host it seperately for themselves.

I will say the gay prom will have better dance music.

Ducky's here said...

Come on Beamish. You only object because you have images of a bull dyke kicking you arse.

Difference scares the hell out of you.

FrogBurger said...

They should be allowed to go.

But since the judge mentions constitutional rights, I hope I'll be able to exercise my constitutional rights when I refuse to be forced to buy healthcare insurance.

FrogBurger said...

Question to Ducky since we agree on this one.

How do you reconcile the lack of logic about constitutional rights in this case with healthcare mandates?

How do you reconcile that a woman has the right to choose because it's her body while I'm forced to buy healthcare insurance whereas it's also my body?

I'd love to get your rational perspective on this sheer lack of logic.

Ducky's here said...

How do you reconcile the lack of logic about constitutional rights in this case with healthcare mandates?


Constitutional issues are decided by the Supreme Court.

Clearly my reading of the general welfare clause differs from yours. The wording of the Constitution is often vague to allow for the differences of the founders.

I say you have as much chance of repealing the health bill as you do of repealing Christmas but the court decides. That's the system. Our separate interpretations don't mean squat till its adjudicated.

FrogBurger said...

How do you define welfare since you're the English litterate here? Do you think welfare had the same meaning in the 17th century? When you interpret Shakespeare, don't you try to understand the language in the context of the time? Doesn't that apply to the Constitution as well?

JINGOIST said...

Z, this is just part of the larger left-wing war against the traditional culture. I say they should be banned from going as a couple for the same reason "freak" dancing should be prohibited.

It's nothing more than a further erosion of the culture. As AOW noted, it's an in-your-face assault on decency.

There are times and places for ALL of this behavior, and the PROM is not one of them!!!

On their own time, I couldn't care less what consenting adults do as long as they don't kill or maim each other. The High School Prom isn't that place, is it?

Unless those people at the heart of this cultural rot are TRYING to do as much damage as possible to our American culture. That's right, I'm not even blaming the young gays and lesbos here, I'm blaming the radicals at the heart of the matter.

In Goethe's "Faust", the Devil stated:
"Everything that exists deserves to perish."

From the play:

"I am the spirit that always negates!
And justifiably so; for everything that exists
deserves to be destroyed.
So it would have been better if nothing had ever existed.
Therefore, everything that you call sin,
destruction, in short, evil,
is my true element."

Karl Marx, and his diseased spawn took that sentiment to heart, and understood that they'd have to tear down the world as we know it in order to re-build the world as they'd like it.

One of his understudies sits at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue right now.

FrogBurger said...

How about the "my body" issue? Doesn't that apply to myself? Doesn't the fact a woman can abort freely impact the welfare of a human being?

Ducky's here said...

As a matter of economics, frog, I favor mandatory insurance because it has the potential to lower costs.

Insurance requires the full range of risks to participate in order to decrease the average expense. Letting insurance companies cherry pick the low risk candidates and move the high expense individuals to public expense is a loosing proposition. In that case insurance company profits accomplish nothing and just represent another income transfer.
However, since a corporation is facilitating the transfer it's okay with the right. That confuses me.

In the larger perspective, allowing everyone to operate in their perceived short term self interest is inefficient. I think the bill promotes overall efficiency and is nearly universally beneficial.

FrogBurger said...

You're not answering the question. I'm talking constitutional rights.

Again you dont' seem to be able to justify your lack of logic and utter lack of principles.

JINGOIST said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JINGOIST said...

Ducky replies to frogburger:

"As a matter of economics, frog, I favor mandatory insurance because it has the potential to lower costs."

So the ends justifies the means. Jeez ducky, I'm just shocked that you'd express such a sentiment. (sarcasm spilling over)

Ducky's here said...

Frog, you throw around this term "constitutional rights".

What right are you talking about?

If some right has been violated then it must be decided in the courts.

Your concept of "constitutional rights" is neither learned nor binding. There's the deal. it conflicts with mine and we need an arbiter. If you think you can put a fool proof propositional calculus on the wording then you are very mistaken.

Interviewer: How do you explain the fact that productivity in Sweden is higher than in this country (USA)?

Ayn Rand: They have better press agents. Seriously, I don't believe it."

From Ayn Rand Answers edited by Robert Mayhew.

Faith said...

After reading these comments I'm convinced that the prom isn't doing anything for the culture any more anyway, having become just another excuse for sexual acting out. If we aren't going to penalize heterosexual misbehavior, we have no reason to exclude lesbians from the prom. But I also don't mind if they ban proms forever anyway.

FrogBurger said...

Ducky is a lame duck. You can't even justify your points so you throw around multiple things.

Productivity in the debate now?

Wow very impressive intellect Ducky.
You truly are pathetic.

And then goons with your brains want to run my life.

FrogBurger said...

Productivity is super high in France too.
So now you're looking at numbers?
Are you looking at average income numbers? Cancer treatment success rates? Unemployment numbers? Deficit numbers? Tax rate numbers? House ownership numbers?

Look at all the numbers and then come back to me, intellectually dishonest moron.

How about throwing suicide rates into the debate too. Or consumption of anti depressant because of an overall state of misery in France for example.

FrogBurger said...

"What right are you talking about?"

The right to freedom and taking care of my body the way I want it ie. by choosing the products and health care options I want. The same right that you claim for abortion.

Your freedom is being free of necessity because of your lack of courage and strength.

My freedom is being left alone, especially away from little tyrants of your kind.

beamish said...

Come on Beamish. You only object because you have images of a bull dyke kicking you arse.

Difference scares the hell out of you.

Yeah. That's it, Ducky. Keep on oozing imbecility.

I prefer to attend performances by new artists and musicians rather than rote renditions of 400 year old symphonies even elementary school kids can play and I had an orange mohawk in high school because I fear difference. I spent the first half of my 20's mostly living in my car and traveling all over the country taking odd jobs for gas money rather than settling into the school-job-marriage-kids-white-picket-fence cycle because I'm such a conformity zealot.

Ding me for being unfair, Ducky, but if you could say something intelligent, what would it sound like?

Ducky's here said...

Okay, z, you have a good musical ear and some training I believe.

This is from Telemann's "Gulliver Suite" and it was on the program at the Gardner last Sunday.

Is this a piece that a high schooler can play? One of the violinists holds the chair at Yale in violin performance and she plays a Strad. Can't understand why she devoted all that expense and study to a high school piece.

By the by, it was a Baroque program and I was surprised how dead the Bach sounded. Telemann, Purcell and Vivaldi were much more interesting. I've had this feeling about Bach before. Heresy?

Z said...

LESLIE..I"m addressing yours here at the top so I can get as many to read it as possible. You said
"Take the victim role, stand on a generated position of intolerance, hold your hand out, and you win."

I think you just said IT ALL, synopsizing all our comments, but some, of course.

Anon "It is the first time in 12 years she’s ever heard the word ‘no’ in the public school environment."
Well put.

Ducky, if you REALLY read the posts I write you'll see that I am alluding to the paragraph in the article, in blue on my post, saying how the famous celebs are championing this girl...and, of course, every single household in TV land now has a gay member, which is highly misrepresentative of life.
By the way, yes, gay men and women led dignified lives in the past, their life, loving their partners (or promiscuous as most of my gay friends were before AIDS took some of them and woke some of them up), not humiliating themselves with gay parades in fishnet stockings, a terrible embarrassment for gay stockbrokers, I assure you.

Beamish "I will say the gay prom will have better dance music." Especially if it's a Black gay prom, if I might add :-)

Ducky..I'm glad you brought up Christmas; Do you expect that to stay a national holiday for too many more years?
FrogBurger is right...85% of Americans ID with Christianity and Christmas but leftwingers have taken Christmas out of the WINTER BREAK, SPRING BREAK,'s only a few more steps...
this was to please the MINORITY! As is the attitude of those championing this lesbian prom wannabe.

Jingo, in the NAME OF OPEN MINDEDNESS AND KINDNESS, the left encourages untraditional behavior, gentility and all things most have held precious for thousands of years. Thanks for the comment with so much in're so right.

FAITH "If we aren't going to penalize heterosexual misbehavior, we have no reason to exclude lesbians from the prom"
You make an EXCELLENT POINT, too.
From the dresses I've seen, so stupidly skimpy, the pregnant prom goers, the dancing as if they're lying horizontal, you do make a great point.
But, I'm for proms as they were before, when parents cared what their daughters wore, when they had curfews, before kids couldn't wait to get high and have sex like all their friends were.

But, those days are gone; Maybe we are dinosaurs for insisting on decorum and values which saved people from disease and personal destruction (teen pregnancy, drug overdoses, STD's, AIDS, etc.)

I wonder that the Left doesn't see that....
Sometimes I think the Left has it right; American kids are so debauched and who can blame them...we celebrate OCTAMOM and that women GOESSLIN (first name?) and people like Rosie O'Donnell FOR her gayness and adopting children who will never have a father, and drug addict celebs because they "CAME CLEAN!" (or not), and Tiger Woods screwed around because of HIS DISEASE and he's GETtING THERAPY!.."Oh, wonderful Tiger, it's not HIS FAULT, after all!"
We all could go on and on...
"If you want to get RICH and FAMOUS, be BAD, NOT GOOD"

So, if we're this far gone and we probably can't change people back to decency......let it go?!!

What a horrible thought, but one I've considered a lot recently. The left has also made excellent headway at condemning OUR LIFESTYLES and OUR BELIEFS as the bad ones...not those who are destroying themselves with bad behavior.
Better to be BAD than HAVE VALUES, apparently.

Z said...

Ducky, I was hoping you had a musical link, not the notes...
I have played accompaniment, on the piano of course, to violin but don't read violin music, really. The bottom manuscript looks rather easy as it seems to be whole notes and slow..the top's very fast but not too complicated,I think.

I'm not sure I understand your allusion to HIGH SCHOOL? Are you suggesting the music's easy enough for a high schooler so why'd they bother?

Bach is dull to me, frankly. Mechanical. We have to remember that Bach wrote on instruments with NO loud/ the music must be written with some excitement and, let's face it, when it's monotone and Bach can get fairly academic in his writing and timing, it can sound dull.
Vivaldi, Purcell...both lived around the same time of Bach, but their music can be considered more exciting by some.
Of course, Bach is often on keyboard only and Vivaldi and Purcell are often played now by orchestras which by nature CAN have greater dynamics.
Vivaldi also had more interesting timing...

Bach, Handel...I like Handel even more than Bach, but they are more staid, more 'even' in their timing...intricate and wonderful but not as interesting maybe.

"Heresy?" No. It's a matter of taste. I prefer Mozart over them all.

Ducky's here said...

Ducky..I'm glad you brought up Christmas; Do you expect that to stay a national holiday for too many more years?


Can't imagine it changing.

You are being paranoid.

Ducky's here said...

I'm not sure I understand your allusion to HIGH SCHOOL? Are you suggesting the music's easy enough for a high schooler so why'd they bother?


It's in reference to Beamish's contention that notated music is simply something any high schooler can perform.

Nice to know someone else agrees on Bach. I'm fairly new to classical and don't have complete confidence in my opinions but yes, his work does strike me as mechanical.

beamish said...

Ducky's continuing to embarrass himself with his artistic illiteracy thinking repetitions of the same 128th notes on a violin is difficult when more talented speed metal musicians are very regularly doing full appegios of 128th notes with portamento on a guitar. Without tabulature or a man with a stick conducting them.

Ducky's music theory exposure never graduated 6th grade.

FrogBurger said...

Check this out.
Black woman who after years of welfare turned her life around and is running as a republican to defeat the corrupt and moronic Richardson

Ducky's here said...

Can you give me an example, Beamish.

LASunsett said...

//Ducky's music theory exposure never graduated 6th grade.//

That's not the only area he is remedial in. But you must admit, there is some entertainment value in his comments of things he knows nothing about.

Ducky's here said...

Beamish, isn't full arpeggio redundant.

How does Godsmack resolve a partial arpeggio?

Ducky's here said...

So in the Queensryche vs. Beethoven argument LA, I can put you down for Queensryche?

It's a shame the way the culture is being dumbed down and i thought you were a defender of western culture.

Anonymous said...

Gee. seems to me the girl got what she really wanted.
SHe messed up the prom and got money and goodies and fame.
Not a bad day's work , eh?

What a shame.

Yes, too bad that some people use kids to further their aims, but all is fair when the radicals are looking for something to do on a rainy day.

But we all lose.


Ducky's here said...

Did the administration ask the students opinion?

Brooke said...

So all I have to do is claim to be a lesbian and I'll get a $30,000 scholarship?

Sign me up!


"You only object because you have images of a bull dyke kicking you arse."

I have the image of the intro to Boondock Saints. Heh.

Z said...

Ducky, you ask a good question. These are mostly 17 yr old kids..of COURSE they'll think this is marvelous, most of them, because they now equate TOLERANT with RIGHT....which is a huge mistake, of course.
Where was it that there were 14 yr old kids taught some horrid things about AMerica in public school and the left stood up for the teacher saying "they are old enough to be discerning..?" That was the saddest thing I"d heard in a long time.

What's wrong with Queensryche, by the way? And how can that compare to Beethoven in any way? they're different genres and some prefer Q to B........chacun a son gout, Ducky. Doesn't make one smarter than the other.

beamish said...

LA Sunsett,

That's [music] not the only area he is remedial in. But you must admit, there is some entertainment value in his comments of things he knows nothing about.

What do you expect from a guy less intelligent than most bags of potting soil?

Now I don't subscribe to the bizarre and absurd view that presupposes leftists are actually capable of rational thought, and outwitting Ducky requires about as much mental effort as it does to delay a blink of my eyelids. The guy's a poster boy for competitive paint chip eating.

But Ducky's sore loss over his trouncing on musical and art literacy over a month ago at my blog spilling out to other people's blogs is becoming quite frankly boring.

I don't expect Ducky to say anything intelligent. I don't really even believe he can say something intelligent even if he wanted to.

But to drag on about beinf trounced in a debate a month ago?

Come on, Ducky, get a life. Go see an original composition being performed. Something.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

If the school hadn't the foresight to sense this was a bad move in today's climate, then they deserve to lose the suit -- which they will anyway.

This is another in a series of incidents where schools and businesses are starting to simply cancel a host of societal gatherings or activities, instead of forcibly being placed in a box by attorneys which will result in various suits pro and con on any number of issues.

If it were a private school the situation might be different; even then I suspect they'd be subject to suit.


Leticia said...

Z, the parents of the school are throwing a private prom out of school limits and apparently the gays are doing the same.

As Mustang pointed out proms used to be an event where the kids were chaperoned and were taught about social etiquette and propriety.

I firmly believe that the strict guidelines and dress code should be maintained regardless of one person's opposition. The McMillen girl wanted to dress in a tuxedo which is considered a social faux-pax as well as girls wearing revealing dresses.

The whole matter stinks like yesterday's diapers. And it is reprehensible that a school should be sued just because one selfish little girl wants to dress like a man. Outrageous and sad.

My problem with is that if the girl wins does this mean that the kids will be allowed to dress as they want? Girls coming in bikinis and boys in swimming trunks? Where does it end?

The kids and parents should adhere to school police and leave the courts out of it.

Ducky's here said...

Come on, Ducky, get a life. Go see an original composition being performed.


Are you all there.

I went to several concerts celebrating Eliot Carter's 100th birthday. Was his work unoriginal?

I know it can't compare to a one bar metal hook but I have to say it was original.

Yeah, rock on, Beamish, that's what you know and while your at it our music will be reduced to the limitations of the standard power trio. Pretty damn boring.

You have the range of a rock, Beamish. The unfortunate thing is that your preference for art that caters to attention deficit disorder also permeates your political and economic thought.

Ducky's here said...

Well, the issue came up z because Beamish was waxing poetic about the nation being coast to coast rock radio.

Now, the issue there is that it drives out choice and alternatives are becoming more difficult to find. Very tough to find a privately funded jazz or classical station these days and you folks on the right are trying to defund NPR so that makes it even narrower.

What Beamish would do is have it all be a basic three or four many electric group playing a rehash of improvisation that the jazz guys were all over back in the 60's and pretty much took to the logical terminus.

Now, if you want to hear new forms ... you really have to hunt because in the Beamish world you play to the least common denominator and dumb down the culture.

It's like trying to find good 1930's American films. Wonderful stuff but you have TCM and that's about it. Makes it tough to maintain a critical mass and generate new appreciation.

If it's foreign, pretty much forget it. In the Beamish world you'll have a few art houses on each coast playing say the Romanian New Wave and folks like Beamish just waiting for Saw 3D.

I make no restrictions on anyone indulging their tastes but when you have a market catering to the LCD it becomes more difficult to find quality and a lot of people miss out on things completely.

beamish said...


You really ought to give up your comedic pretensions to intellect, because quite frankly you make idiots look smart. You're far too stupid to even realize how stupid you are.

As much as you'd like to keep revisiting the month-plus old topic of music on which I revealed quite handily that you're an illiterate, one would think you'd at least be able to reformulate my argument in a recognizable form.

But then I catch myself before I venture into the absurdity of thinking leftists are actually capable of rational thought, and remember that you're not even remotely interested in convincing anyone that you possess basic reading comprehension skills. The dumber you come across, the more leftist people will believe you to be, and you're in to win.

To wit, no where in this ongoing never ending trouncing of Ducky's artistic illiteracy on my blog will anyone find me saying any particular genre of music is compositionally superior to any othe genre of music. If there is a radio station playing my personal preferences outside XM satellite channels, it's not available to me in St. Louis where there are more classical, jazz, gospel, country, and R&B stations than there are stations playing experimental drum and bass techno or speedcore metal.

In short, Ducky's characterization of my position is intentionally off base, which only defaults to a lack of reading comprehension skills on his part, which is entirely consistent with a leftist's ideological need to be the most imbecilic person in the room.

For example, I told Ducky a few posts back to "go see an original composition being performed" and he waxes excitedly about seeing people play Eliot Carter's music instead of their own original compositions.

You can't fix stupid.

beamish said...

The greatest evidence of Ducky's artistic illiteracy comes when he says things like "jazz musicians ... took improvisation to its logical terminus."

Now jazz is pretty much color-by-numbers compositionally, but it is by no means the end of improvisation in music composition.

The guy just lives in a very isolated and small fish bowl, at least musically, but I've yet to encounter Ducky speaking from intimate knowledge on any subject.

He can't even see that he's missing out on quality limiting himself to dependence on government welfare funded music.

Anonymous said...

I notice in the picture attached to the article, the young woman is dressed in a somewhat low cut top, not men's clothes. I also noticed she's 18 years old

Her girlfriend is sixteen. When I was a teenager, the eighteen year old guys would have called the sixteen year old girl, "jailbait".

Of course back then, dinosaurs trod the earth.

It seems to me the crux of the story is, the 18 year old wishes to make a spectacle of herself by wearing a man's tux. She "want's to send a message". That's the point. Creating her own controversy. Why?

She could have gone with one of the guys in her class, had a good time, and not chosen the Prom to "send a message". In the process she caused her entire class to miss out on their prom entirely.

I think she loves attention, and to exhibit herself is one way to get it. and dragging her sixteen year old friend into it, as if this was a do or die proposition.

So, the administrators decided this whole thing was not worth the trouble.

Looks like these days sixteen year olds are on their own. Where the heck are that girl's parents!

I couldn't care less what consenting adults do. That's their business. But a sixteen year old is not a consenting adult.

As for the eighteen year old, grow up and deal with your own problems, and don't drag eveyone else into them. You'll find most of them couldn't care less.


sue said...

If you could play Bach on the piano you would not think him mechcanical.

If you've ever heard Glenn Gould playing the Goldberg Variations you would not think that.

And anyone who plays Bach and thinks him mechcanical is really the mechanical one - not Bach.

sue said...

If you could play Bach on the piano you would not think him mechcanical.

If you've ever heard Glenn Gould playing the Goldberg Variations you would not think that.

And anyone who plays Bach and thinks him mechcanical is really the mechanical one - not Bach.

Anonymous said...

Well, Sue, I couldn't agree more with you about Bach's not being "mechanical."

If you haven't heard them, seek out performances of Bach's keyboard works on YouTube -- and other places -- by Agi Jambor, Wanda Landowska, Myra Hess and Rupert-Egerton-Smith. Angela Hewitt is wonderful also -- and brilliant beyond compare -- but a little "cool" for my tastes.

Landowska's Italian Concerto is absolutely superb. All three movements are on YouTube, albeit separately.

I love Gould's performances particularly of the Bb-Major Partita, the C-Minor Partita, the E-Minor Partita and the Beethoven 4th concerto. I greatly admire both his versions of the Goldberg Variations too. Some of his other recording, however, strike as very strange, affected and insincere. I think he became a little mad, frankly, At least he's never dull.

Not everyone has an "ear" for serious music, but those of us who do should be very grateful, and leave those who don't to their lack of understanding. In all my years of teaching and writing, I've never been successful at making anyone change his mind by TELLING him he's wrong.

The music either speaks for itself -- to those with ears to hear -- or it does not.

Consider yourself blest if you love Johann Sebastian.

Best regards,

~ FreeThinke

lovelyprism said...

This was in Mississippi??? I thought those things only happened in California. I obviously have no idea what's going on in schools anywhere other than here, but let me tell you something awesome about Georgia... The rules are the rules, talking back or arguing is disrespectful. The administration is GOD and the children are just that... children. They're under 18 in PUBLIC school, they have no choice but to obey. They are taught respect, manners, and social graces by not only their parents, but by the teachers and administrators. PEOPLE here, not just men, will open a door for you or hold it open if you come in behind them. People here still say please and thank you. There is most definitely a dress code and it applies even at prom, because prom is a SCHOOL function. This girl's done the talk show circuit "fighting for tolerance"? How about some tolerance and respect for other people? It's great to be individual and let your freak flag fly! Just don't fly it in my face and ruin my fun while you're at it.

Z said...

Obviously, Bach depends on the piece.
Pianoforte had no dynamics in his day....without dynamics and with the clinky sound of a true pianoforte, who knows what Ducky heard and why it hit him as mechanical?
some of the Bach is like Czerny, let's face it..

Others aren't...FT's right, it depends on the piece. It can definitely sound mechanical. And it doesn't much of the time.

Z said...

LovelyPrism..I'm movin' to Georgia!

beamish said...

Meh. J.S. Bach is the last chapter in a book discarded by true composers like Mozart and Beethoven, in my opinion. Bach was constantly revising and re-sequencing his compositions, never truly satisfied with the final product, and not very guarded against pillaging the compositions of others to mingle into his own sound.

You might even say Bach was the first "remix" artist, LOL.

But for composition, Mozart, yo.

Z said...

Beamish, NOBODY wrote like Mozart....
he was Mr. Z's very favorite and Mr Z was a huge classical music fan ... we used to play two piano compositions and enjoyed it a lot. xx

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Hey, it's the Ducky-Beamish Show! That was the name of my grocer, by the way: Ducky Beamish.


sue said...

FT - I soaked in every word that you said. J.S. Bach is misunderstood only in the sense that most people don't have the depth of feeling for his music.

Even though there are not pedal and dynamics markings they are intrinsic to the music.

As for Glenn Gould, let's not say he was mad, but rather a genius, and eccentric.

Z said...

FT and you have 'depth of feeling' for CZERNY? Well, perhaps that's why people find Bach mechanical. I'd never say they don't have 'depth of feeling'...maybe they just have "different taste?"
Glenn Gould...singing with Bach.
Seems troublesome to ME :-)

sue said...

Z - Are you comparing the works of Czerny and Bach? Czerny wrote exercises (which I think are great).

Bach is the Father of music. Bach's music is unlike any other. I think you have to play his piano music to really appreciate it.

Z said...

Sue. Of course I am. Czerny is exercises, I like them too...and some of Bach is very much like that.

I have played Bach, of course.

Don't know why we can't discuss this without saying people who don't agree aren't thinking or haven't a musical ear or haven't played it.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what Bach thought about lesbians?

I think he was too busy "quietly performing miracles" even to touch on the subject, myself.

He fathered twenty children with two different wives, but for all we know one or both of those wives could have been a closet lesbian.

In those days people did their duty, and were conditioned never to think about their personal needs and preferences much if at all.

Lesbians have always been around, but it's only lately that we hear about them.

I wish we didn't. I'd rather listen to Bach and Handel, and Scarlatti, and Haydn, and Mozart, and Gluck, and Beethoven, and Schubert, and Rossini, Chopin and Schumann, and Brahms, and Liszt, and Verdi, and Wagner and Strauss, and Puccini, and Faure, and Debussy and Ravel, and Hugo Wolf and Messiaen, and Durufle, and Bartok and Barber and Douglas Moore and and and and and ....

Heaven is within reach right here on earth, but most people prefer to argue and complain, and accuse and take umbrage and hurl invective.


~ FreeThinke aka The Pompous Snot

Anonymous said...


The music either speaks for itself -- to those with ears to hear -- or it does not.

Consider yourself blest if you love Johann Sebastian

That is not an insult to anyone or a call to arms; it's simply a statement of fact.

There are lots and lots and LOTS of things I do not understand, am not attracted to and generally try to avoid. I don't ATTACK those things, however. I only wish I had the capacity to appreciate them.

I could have said, "Consider yourself blest, if you can read, understand and enjoy ancient Greek tragedy in the original language."

I can't, and I'm not interested in that, but I would never take umbrage at anyone who makes no secret of enjoying those recondite pleasures and reveling in that rarified atmosphere-- UNLESS he or she was PRETENDING so as to APPEAR "smarter" or "better" than others, which is a different thing altogether.

Does EVERYTHING have to become fodder for a DISPUTE? Can't we share our knowledge, insights and feelings without someone's feeling insulted or threatened.

~ FreeThinke aka The Pompous Snot

Z said...

FT..I never thought I'd get tired of my blog, and I rarely do...and I encourage disagreement on subjects, it's frankly why I keep Ducky around and other leftists who comment here...I WANT to hear differing viewpoints. I don't even mind some nasty back and forths on the threads....we all need to let it out of our systems sometimes.
It's subtle, snide remarks that seem aimed to hurt I find greatly disturbing and which suck the joy out of my blog, which I really don't appreciate as joy isn't something I'm reveling in much anymore these days. It makes me weary to think I work hard on a blog only to read it and feel bogged down and disillusioned and discouraged by comments.
It happens VERY little, thank God.

Anonymous said...

Everything's offensive to someone. Truth is people love to find things to be offended about, because it takes pressure off the necessity for them to examine themselves critically, and learn where there's room for improvement.

If we'd all mind our own business, it would be a better world.

Tequila Olansky