Monday, March 12, 2012

Afghanistan, the koran and murder

I was just thinking about the outrage and retaliation murders put on Americans because of the accidental burning of some korans in Afghanistan and how the MURDER of 16 Afghans by one American soldier hasn't created any outrage or retaliation.  
I got to wondering about a people who'd be less outraged at murder of innocent civilians than the koran situation.

Funny, I keep typing koran without a capital K and the computer doesn't like it;  it's been programmed to give it the more respectful capital K.   So, I typed bible and got no red squiggly line under it.  bible can be typed with a less respectful lower case b, NO PROBLEM.   

what a world.



FairWitness said...

The parallel you've drawn Z is one I've been pondering myself. I suppose it demonstrates the lack of value and respect Islam places on human beings lives. The Koran itself, the actual book, and its text are what is respected and valued. What a sick "religion" that holds its followers in contempt, devalues and debases those who worship it. What a miserable existence to be a Muslim.

cube said...

There will be outrage whipped up over these killings because it will benefit moslems to do so.

Dave Miller said...

Cube, are you not outraged? Would you not be outraged at the killing of a group of innocent women and children here in the US?

Of course there will outrage... it's warranted in this case...

Z said...

Where is the outrage? It was immediate with the koran burning.

Dave, I don't think anybody needs reminding that outrage over innocent lives lost is expected.
The questions are WHEN? the koran was immediate...
the point is well illustrated by the non actions this weekend....the koran brought OUTRAGE, the killings have brought strong words by Karzai.

Anybody like to chime in on the way the computer's rigged for koran and not for bible? facinating. (fascinating gets a red squiggly line without the 's' in it, too...that's rigged, not bible)

Silverfiddle said...

Anybody like to chime in on the way the computer's rigged for koran and not for bible?

Microsoft is afraid of ululating hordes burning down its facilities and beheading its employees.

FairWitness said...

I do believe the murder of innocents is outrageous. I am horrified that any American soldier would commit such a heinous, barbaric, senseless crime. I hope we find out what caused this man to take the actions he did, what his rationale was. Who knows what kind of pressure he was dealing with. We should all pray for the souls of those who were murdered and for their families.

Who knows who writes the online spell checkers, Z. It is curious that the bible isn't automatically flagged for not capitalizing the first B, yet the Koran is. I think bible is also a known used to describe various other publications, such as "Legally Blonde" referring to Cosmopolitan as "the bible" for Delta Nu. Perhaps there's nothing untoward here.

sue hanes said...

Z - I always capitalize Bible.

Murder is never justified - becaue it is actually taking someone's life. And life is a precious thing.

That's why we have the Justice System here in Our Really Great Country. Does it always work?
Of course not. But we have to keep trying - to bring justice to every level.

I am not for becoming what Others are - just because the Bad People Do Mean Things To Us - Doesn't Mean We Have To Act In - Kind.

Of course sometimes People lose it and get revenge - then that has to be dealt with too.

sue hanes said...

Z - Isn't Koran is very specific word - like it Really doesn't have any other meaning.

Whereas 'bible' can mean other types of 'bibles' - and not just the Holy Bible.

Maybe that's what your computer is thinking.

Ducky's here said...

Clearly, proper usage when referring to the Christian Bible is to capitalize.

However, "bible" can be generic in modern usage and not require capitalization.

But not to worry, Google spell check will soon reveal other ways it is in service to the MSM.

Ducky's here said...

Why hasn't there been immediate outrage. After all, this is the first time in the last forty years that that benighted nation has seen innocent children killed.

At least we don't drop explosives disguised as toys like the Soviets did.

beamish said...

How do we know this guy killed civilians? Were they wearing civilian uniforms? ;)

Anonymous said...

Word 2008 does the same thing. Sounds correct to me. Bible can mean "book" or "books". Koran very specifically means "toilet paper".

I read that a guy killed 16 people. The next day these 16 people were supposedly children. Today he killed and burned 16 innocent children. Tomorrow the story will be that he killed, raped, and burned 16 poor orphan children who were at a local hospital recovering from chemotherapy. I'm calling BS on this story.

Z said...

Silverfiddle said...

Anybody like to chime in on the way the computer's rigged for koran and not for bible?

Microsoft is afraid of ululating hordes burning down its facilities and beheading its employees."

BINGO. I think that's probably true. And, of course, that's where my leading question was going!

HOWEVER....I do appreciate the input of FW, Ducky and Sue, too. That's probably the more correct answer, but I still think it's sad, in a way.

Hey, at least we're not YET at saying things like "That's the Koran for Delta Nu!" (whatever Delta Nu is, FW??) HAA!
Wait, it will be!

I used to call a wonderful restaurant in Munich "Our MECCA" ... I stopped doing that :-) seriously.

CACTUS MARK! YOU ARE HILARIOUS "Word 2008 does the same thing. Sounds correct to me. Bible can mean "book" or "books". Koran very specifically means "toilet paper"."

That is absolutely wonderful and I'm laughing my head off !!

And the rest of your comment, too! Chapeaux, my new buddy!

Beamish, he apparently went into homes, where neither the father or the son would be wearing uniforms... and, you're right, of course, nobody wears uniforms, anyway.

Rita said...

Oh My. I suspect that there will be a fatwa out for Cactus Mark's head soon.

But to lighten the mood before his demise, I'll relate a rather odd tale that was brought to mind.

Several years ago, we were sitting around my mother's house and someone on TV mentioned something about Madonna.

Sick of hearing about some overpaid celebrity, my mother blurted out without thinking about her words, "Oh That Madonna, they should just cut her head off."

I said, "Mom, don't you think that might be just a bit extreme?"

She then realized her choice of words and we all had a good laugh at her expense (Mom's, not Madonna's)

A year later, some extreme Islamic group actually issued a fatwa against Madonna because of her "Jewish type" religion AND called for her to be beheaded.

So now we suspect that either Mom is an undercover Islamic extremist or they have her house bugged to get new ideas.

Sorry, OT, but I blame that on Cactus Mark.

Z said...

Rita, never tell your mother about ME, okay? (Smile)

that's a very funny story!

Lisa said...

Remebr with Abugrab and Haditha how the left was saying this was a result of Rumsfelds' policies?
Now this is an apology

Z said...

Lisa, isn't she GREAT?
I love that kind of apology!

Always On Watch said...

Interesting observation about the red squiggly line. I've noticed the same, BTW.

Liberalmann said...

I see a lot of 'sickness' in the name of Christianity right here in the USA.

Leticia said...

I believe, sometimes, the Qur'an or Koran, however one chooses to spell it, is worshiped like some kind of golden calf from the Old Testament.

Christians would never murder, or cause havoc, or harm another person for burning or desecrating our bibles, why? Because we carry the LIVING Word in us.

Rita said...

Lisa: That woman is a true genius. Can we get HER elected President?

Thanks for linking. One of the best videos I've watched in a long time.

Kid said...

With muslims, life is cheap. Come on folks, they strap bomb vests on children. They get pregnant for the sole purpose of creating suicide bombers.

Whatever outrage there is will be strictly used for political leverage.

Regards Afghanistan, let's either take over the county, or get out. There is nothing to be gained by continuing this farce of 'training afghan security people' who will be taliban 1 second after we leave.

Kid said...

PS - the koran is a bluprint for sadistic conquest.

PS - I'm callin a JiHAD... A Tropical Jihad...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

"I hope we find out what caused this man to take the actions he did, what his rationale was. Who knows what kind of pressure he was dealing with..."

Right..and none of maybe one or two that visit here...WILL EVER KNOW what COMBAT in a WAR ZONE IS.

Get it?

You can sit here all day long and tsk,tsk about what a "heinous, barbaric act is" or isn't.

The guy...was in his FOURTH tour of combat from what I can gather. FOURTH TOUR...of ROE's...FOURTH TOUR of deciding if he can shoot his enemies or NOT.

FOURTH TOUR of facing JAG discipline for using his M16 against his mortal enemies. His FOURTH TOUR of having to decide...yes decide if his actions to save his life...or his fellow soldiers lives...was "WARRANTED OR JUSTIFIED"?

FOURTH TOUR of following orders from is career motivated politician "commanders {...who value their rank more than they do an American soldiers life. )

His FOURTH Tour of watching his comrades in arms killed over a stinking book...or another stinking "outrage" by 7th century savages. Savages who murder their own at whim....savages who kill each other...savages who mutilate their women...strap bombs on their "so loved children of adolescent age".

Savages who kill soldiers from their "holy" mosques...and he can't fire back....cause the scummy desk bound lawyers of the JAG...sit behind cushy desks...not knowing one GD thing about facing the business end of an AK47...or a roadside bomb that takes his legs...or his life.

Sit here all you want in front of your TV's...watching the talking heads castrate these brave men and women. Sit here all you want condemning this mans actions. Without ever having the necessity of facing death....mayhem...murder and COMBAT.

Payback...can be a BITCH...when your on your FOURTH tour and see that these POS hate your guts...that these POS would rather have your head on a pike. That these mutts need to be left kill each other...and NO more of our BLOOD wasted on the barbarians that for mankind.

Vietnam...was the same damn them over....CRAP.

This is ONE man...who I don't think "cracked". He reacted. We deal with POST traumatic Stress..after they come back.

Do you actually think it happens when they come back...and not while they're there?

Me...I've seen it.

War sucks...war is bloody, inhumane....war means death and destruction. That's a soldiers GD job.


I remember My Lai....all too well. That's when we lost our direction. That's when we lost our kill the enemy. Because we thought it was to "risky" to fight back.

Lisa said...

Someone e-mailed that to me Rita,I knew I needed to share it as soon as I watched it.
There goes Liberlamann going on about Christianity and keeping silent about 16th century Islam.
I guess what do you expect from liberals who still think that
1940's policies will work in todays society.

Anonymous said...

"Would you not be outraged at the killing of a group of innocent women and children here in the US?..."

And Dave...that's exactly why you'll never understand..COMBAT. And that's exactly the mindset I'm referring to.

Of course it wouldn't be TOLERATED HERE.....we're a civilized people. It happened in a COMBAT ZONE....where stress is not measured in the frustrating time you spend in line waiting for your Happy meal at McDonalds...or in a gas line.

Or anywhere else you expect instant gratification.

We don't know....and many of us can never understand that kind of stress.

In WW2..we never talked about it. It was unseemly...unmanly....until I talked with my Dad many years later...who was in combat for 4 straight years....and we discussed reality...and what.."STRESS" was.

My Dad...never forgot it...never got over it. And the tears in his eyes after 50 years told me that this man and men like him...suffered the same as our men do today. Nothings changed....except for the wimps and shitheads in charge of our combat ops today.

Anonymous said... I have to listen to the POS Alan Colmes who thinks combat is his verbal fornicating with "right wing" callers who might defend our troops.

Colmes....O'Reilly....Limbaugh....Ingrahm...Matthews....and especially Maddow...need to be strapped into a Humvee in Afghanistan.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Ms. Z...I'm a bit...pissed off.

Anonymous said...

"What a miserable existence to be a Muslim..."

Well said FW....and as far as I'm concerned....every bullet from an M16 makes them "redeemable".

It's the only thing they understand.

Rita said...

I hear ya, Imp. Armchair warriors are quick to pass judgement on what they would or wouldn't do in the middle of a war zone or in the heat of the battle.

It's pretty easy to be sanctimonious, even for those former soldiers who have not lived in a war environment.

If I sit in my armchair even thinking I could assume I would know how I would act, all I have to do is look over to the chair next to me and know differently.

My husband could not talk about about Vietnam for thirty years, which was about the time we met. I've heard the stories, I've seen the pictures. When children are the ones that are setting down a satchel bomb next to your buddies, a soldier becomes blind as to what the age of the enemy is. If they don't, they will be the next one standing next to a kid with a bomb that will kill them.

Judge if you will, but until someone has watched and heard their buddies screaming all night long on an early Christmas morning until they died because there was no let up in the bombings for medics to help, I really don't value their judgements as much as I do when listening to someone who cannot ever experience a peaceful Christmas or not have nightmares of the wars several times a year.

If war wasn't hell, there would be no need to avoid it.

Z said...

Imp, the truly good thing is that you don't have to listen to that GHOUL Alan Colmes.

TURN IT OFF...he's a nightmare!

I watched Lou Dobbs tonight and it was such a welcome pleasure from Hannity guests screeching over each other. I've never been a huge fan of Dobbs' but I am now. Peace. Good information. American values...hoorah.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...


Thank you. You've said it better that I all the armchair pundits ever admit their ignorance?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...


"My husband could not talk about about Vietnam for thirty years...."

And I know him...and he's my comrade ( in spite of all the pffffffffft...I'll get from the haters...) he knows what others can never know...what war is...what a bloody, dirty mess and a nightmare...that we're expected to

Thank that man...THANK him....for doing his duty. I do.

AAfter all these years...and I'm 64 now...I still need Ambien some nights.

It just doesn't go away.

My brother...a two tour decorated Marine...still has...."issues". Issues that our local VA...will never cure. Only the assurance from most Americans....that we did our duty. We ( and your husband ) served with honor and....never asked aploogy.

Z said...

Rita, what the.......?

Did I know you were in the armed services? If I missed a comment above, please direct me to it.


Anonymous said...

"Imp, the truly good thing is that you don't have to listen to that GHOUL Alan Colmes..."

No Z...I have to listen to this freak..I have to know just how sick the libs are, personified by this bastard.

I have to know first hand how much he hates America. how much he detests the "right". How much he detests much he denigrates and mocks anyone between the Hudson river and much he sides with the loons that hate America.

There is a hate in in your face detesting of all things conservative.

All the things that we loved about America..that we traded for PC bullshit and in turn...a diminished and dumbed down country. And ignorant stupid country that can't name the Capitol of ....America.

Z said...

Imp, ya...that's why I watch and listen to the Left, too, but I don't overdose on it. Five MINUTES of Colmes will show you ALL the things about him you know :-)

By the way...Hannity's screeching guests have started getting on my nerves as they fight , left and right...........and tonight I watched the other FOX channel, Lou Dobbs' show. My gosh, what a welcome relief. He's not my fave, but to see Conservatives and leftwingers speaking peacefully, informatively, patriotically? WHAT A RELIEF> I highly recommend it.

Rita said...

Z: Not me, my husband.

Well Imp, thankfully, many people NOW appreciate our Vietnam guys and know how horribly they were dishonored when they returned. My husband probably gets about 20 phone calls and 10 cards or so every Veteran's Day from our family and friends.

It may be 45 years later, but at least he gets to hear the words of thanks.

He's also 64. Spent '69 to '70 in Pleiku. He was 10th Cav assigned to 4th Infantry.

I'm wondering if you were there at the same time.

So I DO thank him but let me say to you....

Thank you Sir for your service. I only wish I could look back and know that you guys were treated honorably, but it's not true.

We cannot heal those wounds, we can only tell you that most Americans now appreciate your sacrifice.

If you have any desire to read his story, below is the link. I wrote it first, then asked him whether I should post it. He rarely reads my blog. I was very surprised that he then reminded me of some of the other stories and he actually told me some that he had not ever told before. That Christmas, we printed the story off for his daughters, because they had never heard his stories. He wanted me to hand it to them as we left (couldn't stand there and watch them read it) and I explained to them it was important for all of us to know the stories of our soldiers. His father was a fighter pilot in WWII and most of his stories died with him.

That shouldn't happen.

Rita said...


Here's a message for you.

Of course everyone looks back on how badly the Vietnam War was waged, how we should have never become involved.

But that doesn't change what you guys were doing for your country.

I can now answer WHY you guys were there, at least from a personal perspective.

Last year, my niece married a first generation American Vietnam kid. At the wedding, my brother introduced Bob to my niece's father-in-law, Bang.

Bang spent five years in the Vietnam Navy, fighting for his country at the same time Bob was fighting in Pleiku. As Saigon fell, he, his wife and their oldest son were imprisoned in a "holding camp". A few months later they were lucky enough to escape Saigon and flew out to America.

I now have a great-nephew that would not have been here if YOU guys hadn't been THERE.

When we had them over for a family gathering, Bob and Bang discussed their time in the Vietnam War, the places that Bob knew and a little of what happened with Bang and his young family.

45 years after leaving Vietnam, my husband came face to face with the man he was fighting for and had never known.

So Imp, the next time someone wants to tell you we had no business in Vietnam, you can know that I have seen the faces of the people that escaped because you were there and they are now part of my family and my brother now has his first grandchild because America fought in Vietnam.

I can look at my great nephew and smile because I know the sacrifices his grandfather and my husband made so that he is here today.

Z said...

Wow, Rita "So Imp, the next time someone wants to tell you we had no business in Vietnam, you can know that I have seen the faces of the people that escaped because you were there.."

That's beautiful..and so important.


Z said...

Liberalman, I just deleted you.
You're not man enough to even be on the same comments page with people who fought for our country.
Not with the insults you're making.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Anonymous said...


Fpr some unknown entire comment was poofed....

Your brother..are all heros.

Your link....brought tears to my eyes.

Me??? A Tac unit.... Da Nang ....Bien Hoa and nothing like what he went through.

Anonymous said...

Ya know...I'd like to hear from some of my most admired friends...from KID...from KP...from those I know who have a great head on their shoulders to chime in.

Come on you smart intellectual... even headed wonderful people....chime in.

Tell me and Rita...we're "jingoists"....war mongers...pitiful throw backs to a long lost era of....Patriotism and love of country. Tell us our "service" was nonsense and wasted.

I'll feel like I'm back in 1969...

KP said...

Happy to chime in, Imp. Thank you for pouring your heart and soul out for our country. Thank you for your suffering. Thank you for sharing your feelings and your scars. I have great admiration for your service and sacrifice.

I and my family have deep ties and the highest regard for our military over the last 65 years. From WWll to the Persian Gulf. I have shared my story with Z in personal e-mail. I would enjoy doing the same with you.

Humble best wishes.

KP said...

kevprcll at aol dot com

Right Wing Theocrat said...

How about that, you're right, spelling koran with a small 'k' gets you a red line, but Bible with a small 'b' gets nothing.

Z said...

Imp Your comment was "poofed?"

It wasn't by me..I assure you

Kid said...

IMP, Most of these blog comment pages as this one is now, have now morphed into something where you can no longer subscribe to comments and get emails. Do people get emails from my blog comment section? If so, it may be because I went back to old blogger. And the comments have a reply function also.

Anyway, Imp, Thanks for the compliment. I was never in combat. I've been shot at. I've suffered the pain of loss of loved ones many times and have endured long periods of serious discomfort and have hung it out at times in different ways, but I've not seen the kind of things that were seen by you folks in Vietnam. Or in the Pacific especially in WWII.

I know it doesn't compare in any way.

As far as these armchair A*, Tommy Atkins sure comes to mind.

I was about to be drafted for Vietnam back around 1971, but a broken leg mended with steel pins, screws and wire in several places resulted in a 4F on my draft card.

At the time, I didn't mind. I wasn't motivated to think people in Vietnam were a threat to the USA. Now I know it wasn't about any threat to America, it would have been about doing my part to protect other American soldiers who were there in the fight.

I sometimes wish it hadn't turned out that way. I was dog nuts at the time, might have been Ranger :) But who knows. Might have been private and in the brig too.

As far as Afghanistan, it is a conflict without end if we stay, for however much longer we stay and no will to win from the people in government who are making people stay there. I personally don't believe many people can be hung out to dry indefinitely like that and stay "sane". 2014??? Two more years of this nonsensical shit? No will to win by the high command, or the Afghan government, and tied to a post waiting from some afghan army imposter A to shoot you while you sleep.

It has to get worse in the sense of this theme.

Anonymous said...


"It has to get worse in the sense of this theme..."

No just stays the same. It repeats itself time after time...again and again...over and over. With the same guys getting the shit each and every time...our defenders...our soldiers.

We never learn.

And BTW....I meant no harm nor was I pointing fingers at you....I just lost it over the general dissing and disrespect our troops always get. I already told Z...and I wanted to thank you.

Thanks...from the heart....Thanks.

Kid said...

IMP, I didn't get anything negative from what you said anywhere on this thread, so no prob.

Yea, you're right, it stays the same.

Tommy Atkins was written in the 1800's. Just as fluent today.

Kid said...

IMP, as far as military service, I was just doing a full disclosure kind of thing so there's no question, that's all, it wasn't motivated by anything you said.

Anonymous said...


What a gentleman...a man and a kind friend you are Kid. You have my utmost respect. And I thank Ms. Z for bringing us together.

Ask her for my we can take it away from here.

KP said...

Respect and dignity to you Imp.

Along with a realization that there is a place for privacy in everyone's life; thanks for sharing yours.

Perhaps this is one of the most underrated privileges we lose both to old age and poverty: one's privacy. Privacy and dignity are intertwined.