WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama smiled when he said his large ears and funny name once made him a target of school-yard harassment. But he was all seriousness Thursday when he told a White House conference on bullying that torment and intimidation must not be tolerated.
He later added "I didn't emerge unscathed," (he can say that again. I have to admit it I have always thought this man needs therapy for the resentment he's had for his white blood which he discusses in his books, etc., and add the big ears and funny name and you've got a mess.)
Tell me, if you're one of the millions of normal kids who got called names at school or pushed around a bit, did you consider suicide? Did any of us NOT have some kind of trouble with a classmate in elementary school? I remember Judy Gottlieb from Hazeltine Avenue Elementary School. She wore white starched aprons over her dresses, always wore patent leather Mary Janes, and had shiny black pigtails and, now that I think back on her, she was a kind of brunette Patty McCormack! One day, when we were about 9 years old, she pushed me hard and I got mad and grabbed for her and I ripped one of the starched taffeta ties of her apron/dress off! Her mother called mine that night and Mom and I had quite a talk afterward...I still remember that because my poor mother seemed pretty upset and maybe a little embarrassed about what I'd done.....I didn't like having done that to Mom. It wasn't my nature to do that but kids get mean and nasty and tough and I felt bullied and I guess she did, too, and our mothers straightened us out. I've gone on to live a good life and have barely ripped another friend's clothing since (smile)...I don't know what happened to Judy, but I can only guess she's fine, too...........without a White House Conference on bullying! :-)Some children have killed themselves for having been bullied. Okay, maybe three, maybe less, I'm not sure... Thank God there doesn't seem to be more. Surely, things should never come to that? The article proceeds with this:
Michelle Obama said parents need to be more involved in their children's lives, their schools and their activities since youngsters "don't always tell us every little detail." She said her youngest daughter, 9-year-old Sasha, often says "Nothing" in response to questions about her day at school.
This is the answer most children have given since Caine and Abel sat for their SAT's, right?!!
What has changed that children are so vicious these days? Or are they? And, if so, what do you think has caused this? OR, do you think this is not the big deal so many people feel it is that they needed a White House conference?
z
140 comments:
This is mostly in regards to Obama's new website devoted to fighting "cyber-bullying" - which I snarked apart at my blog with my usual derision for all things stupid.
I've been called a "bully" a time or two by a few of the left-wing trolls that visit here. Who knew it was a roll out for a new faux victim's rights community organizing initiative. Yeah, target them individuals, Alinsky...
People who feel "bullied" or "intimidated" by criticizing or insulting words printed on a computer monitor really ought to seriously consider fellating a pistol until it goes off.
As for school daze...
I was usually the smallest kid in class. Which made me the meanest / craziest in physical confrontations / bullying confrontations. When you look like an "easy target" you almost have to have a doctrine of mutually assured destruction just so no one wants to fight you after the word spreads about the first one. I considered it a rite of passage.
And it's a rite of passage I had to do many times, as moving around alot made me the "new kid at school" quite a few times.
My first day of school after moving to Texas, some punk in gym class intentionally kept tripping me then threw a basketball at me and hit me in the back of the head when I wasn't looking. I went haywire on him. Got in-school suspended and detention for three days (basically solitary confinement by with school work to do), waited a few days until I found the classroom he was in during first period, and skipped the class I was supposed to be in to barge into his class and punched him bloody in front of teacher, God, and country. Made him cry. Suspended for a week for that.
Oddly enough, when I came back from that stint of suspension, nobody at that school wanted to mess with me at all.
I am slow to lose my temper because I know how damned crazy I can be when I do.
Dad always told me if I got my ass kicked at school, he'd kick my ass.
Then again, he told the principal of the school that I grew up in in Alabama that if he didn't put a stop to other kids picking fights with me, he was going to kick that principal's ass.
Handle your affairs and conflicts with finality and purpose, people. :)
My tormentor in elementary school was Darlene, the niece of the school's owners. She bore a striking resemblance to Nellie Oleson of The Little House on the Prairie TV show.
One day when I was in third grade, Darlene went too far with me as we were lining up to come in from the playground (the day after nearly poking my eye out with a stick, and I didn't retaliate then), and I beat the hell out of her. She pushed me, then turned her back on me in triumph. Mistake on her part.
I jumped on Darlene's back and ripped out some of her hair along with the hair ribbons. Her frilly dress was in tatters by the time I was done, both of us rolling in the dust on the ground. She didn't even land a single punch, but I landed multiple punches. She was a mess by the time I was done. I was determined to defeat her; if I hadn't, my mother would have switched me good as Mom had had enough of my coming home with bruises rendered by Darlene.
Because Darlene had been the bully for so long, the only punishment I received from the school was that I had to go to the end of the line. In looking back, I suspect that my mother had phoned the school and given the owners a piece of her mind about Darlene's behavior earlier on the morning before I beat the hell out of Darlene.
After that incident, Darlene quit picking on all of us. And Darlene and I actually became friends.
As for why bullying is such a problem now, I don't have enough time to cover the topic in its entirety.
That said, I believe that bullying begins in elementary school and is not properly tended to then, thus causing the problem of bullying to continue on into middle school and high school.
At the private school where I worked for 18 years, we had no bullying problems above 5th grade. I think I know why: when bullying occurred and the bullied student retaliated, the bully got the punishment, not the one who was, in essence, defending himself. Furthermore, the bully and the victim had to sit down with an administrator and "come to terms." The method we used worked. We didn't need the President of the United States weighing in, for pity's sake.
bullying = bad parenting.
but it's a right of passage for all kids. i don't see how it can be gotten around. nowadays the victims of bullying are weaker because in this generation parents coddle their brats more than any generation before. grownups CANNOT save bullied kids. that tattle-tale crap is sure to come up if a grownup intervenes.
great discussion topic, z.
it's just more vain morality on the part of the left.
Getting bullied builds character. You learn to adapt. If you can't, you are a very weak person indeed.
All I can say is that I can think of at least 25 other MORE IMPORTANT topics that Dumbo could have been speaking about today.
I was the shortest kid in school in Jr High (Called Middle school today). I was always being targeted by bullies. I handled it in different ways, but on one occasion, a 9th grader, who was about 6 ft tall(I was about 4'8",if that tall) tried to put my head in a toilet. I lit into him like a buzzsaw, and when the chaos was over, he had cuts and bruises and I was perfectly dry. I never had a problem with bullying in that school again.
High school started the problem all over again, but I handled that, too.
It's a problem, I guess, but certainly not on a Presidential conference level. Let the kids deal with it. As I said, it builds character.
Good heavens!! His kobe beef & lobster dinner must have given him nightmares to bring on this mini-snit. I guess it's the most important thing on his brilliant, scholarly mind. Forget through the ceiling gas prices, drug cartels on both sides of our border, wars in the Middle East, & a stupid 'health care' plan, among other minor nit-picking things. But bullying!! Rigors!! Now that's really important!
Silvrlady
I agree with tha malcontent. Isn't there something more important he could be working on?
Beamish...YOU a bully? You're a bully here, too, come to think of it! (smile!) But a SMART and GOOD bully :-)
Being the smartest kid in your class couldn't have helped you, either.
AOW..Nellie Olson, VERY good one. Mine was a bit of her and a LOT THE BAD SEED!!!! Good that you became friends. I NEVER Liked Judy Gottlieb :-)
Hi, Namaste..CODDLING IS RIGHT. We're coddling our kids out of having backbones, I couldn't agree with you more...on so many issues with kids.
One comes to mind; Dennis Prager used to go to Summer Camp as a young boy growing up in NYC. NEVER did he have contact with his parents in the city for the full 3 months he was away, nor did other kids ..it was a rite of passage.
Today, he's been told that parents pack cell phones with their kids though they're strictly forbidden AND tell the kids "And, if they find this one,I packed another cell phone in your suitcase!" LEsson being: LIE, BE DECEITFUL, YOUR PARENTS WILL HELP YOU BE DECEITFUL, and YOU WILL NEVER GROW UP AND HAVE A BACKBONE but have to call your folks every second. That made me ILL to hear.
Elbro; VAIN MORALITY, indeed.
Mark.......we're not raising soldiers anymore, are we. Think there's any connection? :-)
SilvrLady, imagine if the Bushes treated themselves so luxuriously?
Scotty, HI! ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.....it rated a Public Service Announcement, not a day in the White House! NOTHING ELSE IMPORTANT? GAAAD!!!
The Bad Seed -- One of the all time great movies.
I wasn't a bully in school, Z. Just militantly intolerant of those who tried to bully me. Other than storming into a classroom I wasn't assigned to and attacking the punk that got me suspended on my first day of school, I never started a fight. I wound up going to 4 different schools in Texas before moving to Missouri my senior year. Two of those school changes in Texas were because of fighting and being banned from the campus. Finally I landed in a magnet high school there and was just another weirdo punk rock nerd among weirdo punk rock nerds and all was cool. Texas was weird. All the preppie snobs went to school one place, all the rednecks and gang thugs at another, and all my fellow dorques at another. I just had to navigate and survive the caste system with my fists until I found my place.
I wasn't the smartest kid, except maybe at the preppie snob high school. Those conformity Nazis needed an ass-whoopin. :P
On the Breakfast Club scale, I was half-Bender, half-Brian...
SO timely, Z.
My son is being bullied at school.
Nothing physical yet, just being picked on by a kid who is more insecure than average.
I told him to punch the kid in the face or stomach if the kid tries to pick a fight with him (gets physical), but as long as it's talk, tell the kid "you're not worth my time when you're being mean". When I told him to hit back if hit, he said he'd get into trouble. When I told him to ask the teacher for help, he said the teachers tell them "don't tattle".
So, what's a kid to do?
Meanwhile, I've placed a call with the principal, since talking with the teacher is going NOWHERE. I think that if teachers took the time to make the kids "come to terms", like AOW said, much of this could be avoided. But that takes time and effort... :-(
public school stinks....
Anyway, I had nightmares about Nellie Olson....the ultimate girl bullie.
I didn't get bullied much, not sure why. I was in gymnastics since the age of six, so maybe I resembled a body builder by age 10? who knows? :P
I did kick a few bullie butts when they'd pick on my younger brother.
But I do have to say that girls can be horrid, Z.
Have you seen the movie "Mean Girls"?
I think it's getting worse. I know it wasn't that bad when I was in school.
My approach to helping my children stay grounded, secure, and confident: play outside more often than not (explore), choose a sport or skill that is your favorite and do your very best, spend time with siblings and develop closer friendships within the family than outside.
oh yeah, and we take karate lessons, too. ;-)
I too used to get a bit of it in high school by this one freak. It's all a part of natural selection and social standing I guess.
I sat next to him one day in a math class and put a sharpened pencil through the back of his hand.
End if story. Just hold your mud and when the opportunity arises to punish your tormentor...have at it.
Never got messed with again by any "macho", penny loafed jock strap.
I don't know if it's just Texas, but jr. high and high school can be so painful when you don't fit in like a lemming.
My school was just uncool enough to not really care if you were a redneck, mexican thug, jock, or popular girl.
I had a few friends in each category, but I was an honor society perfectionist athlete.
My how things change. :-)
Anyway, I fear that there's less freedom for kids to just be themselves nowdays. It seems like you're either pigeon-holed or left out of everything when you don't conform, and that's a shame.
You know it's not just in school, you got bullies at work. Maybe they're the same ones who bullied others in their schoolyard days, sounds about right. Um, it's a good topic but a White House Conference? Frankly I'm more worried about the price of gas.
Z, in the little 1/2 mule town where I live (captive audience) gas is $3.59. The same man has his station & supplies the 2 others. A total of 3! 29 miles south, by the interstate it's $3.42. Seventeen cents cheaper.
At the only local market iceberg lettuce, ICEBERG!, is over $3.40 a head! In Vicksburg, across the Miss. R., I bought it for $1.41 at WallyWorld.
Drill, Baby, drill!!
Silvrlady
P.s. to the groveling dude with the flapping ears in D.C. GET OVER IT!! GROW UP!! STOP YER BELLYACHIN'!!
During my childhood (grades 5th thru 9th) I was constantly harangued by a neighborhood bully that never let up on me. I was pushed off of the school bus nearly each day because I spoke with a funny accent (I'm from Scotland). That bullying forced me to speak like an American permanently and I basically lost my accent over this. I was also damaged emotionally to the point where I began to plot my revenge.
It all ended in the summer between us moving into high school from Jr. High. That bully ended up in the hospital. I was diagnosed a borderline sociopath due to the carnage I launched on his face with a baseball bat. He had to have major reconstructive surgery on his teeth and lost vision in one eye. Never again would he bully me. From then on in, he addressed me with respect. We actually became friends after that; he is now a friend on Facebook (it's ironic how the name implies).
So the lesson here is this: Why even allow the feds to try and take control of an issue that can easily be solved with an aluminum baseball bat?
You tell me. If you've been bullied before, you know where I am coming from.
..so the moral of the story is this: keep the feds OUT of the bullying problem. Let kids or parents solve it, even if it translates to some real horrorshow violence.
I think the President has more important things to do, than counsel parents and children how to behave.
So he was teased at school, big deal. Who wasn't? It is a rite of passage, and parents should be the counselors to their own kids.
My folks raised us to stand up for ourselves. Not to start trouble, but to respond to it.
I was small in stature, so I took some teasing, but my Dad was a tease himself, although it was affectionate teasing.
So I usually had an answer for anyone who teased me about being small. One was, "hey Pris, throw some Bandini on your feet"!
I just yelled back, "I tried it, it doesn't work"! We'd laugh and that would be the end of it. Since my Dad called me shortstuff, none of that bothered me.
Humor is a great way to diffuse that sort of thing, because kids that tease you want to get a rise out of you, if they don't, they get no satisfaction from it.
Only once when I was in Jr. High in LA, was I punched hard in the back, and I wheeled around and punched the girl in the face. I was walking home from school at the time. It never happened again.
I never got in trouble from my parents for defending myself, or protecting my little sister. Heck, I used to tell them about it or ask their permission to do so.
The worst thing was the day a boy across the street shot me in the leg with his BB gun. He was actually lying in wait behind a bush when he did it.
Well, my Dad was home that day, and I did run in the house and told him, showed him where I was hit, and he went to the boy's house, found the kid in his garage, and broke that gun in half, yelling at the kid as he did it. The boy's parents weren't home.
Dad expected a visit later from the parents but they never came over. I'm sure the kid never told his parents about it, and probably spent days sweating out the prospect of Dad telling his folks. Dad didn't. He was satisfied the kid learned his lesson.
Today, Dad would probably be sued for hassling that boy, and destroying his property.
I prefer the old way. Deal with these things yourself, and nip them in the bud.
And for some parents, face the fact that your darling child may be capable of wrongdoing, and quit making excuses for his bad behavior.
Pris
Beamish, were all your siblings like you at school?!!! Ya, I'm sorry; I wouldn't peg you as a bully but a scrapper, yes!!
Jen, fabulous comment...putting family first is so wise, you really are SO WISE for a young chick!! :-) (and don't argue, you ARE young!)
You know, I think you REALLY hit on something there; it didn't matter what happened outside, I KNEW my family was there. NOw, my parents were of the generation/ilk that "The teacher is ALWAYS RIGHT" (Smile) so I didn't feel 100% stood up for at all times, but I KNEW if the chips were down, and almost always otherwise, they were THERE for me. (that's when teachers deserved that phrase, too.,...I think many still do but, when you're doing nothing but discipline and see the parents don't care very much, how much can teachers still put out?)
(by "put out", I don't mean the kind SOME teachers have done..heh heh!)
Jen, also, you said "less freedom for kids to just be themselves nowdays. " What's that MEAN exactly?
Z-Man, thanks for coming by...ya, wouldn't you THINK there are more important things Obama could be doing? :-) (how's the cookin' going?)
SilvrLady..$3.40 a HEAD OF ICEBERG!??? HOLY COW!! I thought ours was high but it's not NEAR that! Yikes. Well, they're better have a conference on bullying, that'll help that! :-)
RedWood! I'm appalled at myself! You put a PENCIL thru a kid's hand and I LAUGHED MY youknowwhat off!! :=)
Pris "And for some parents, face the fact that your darling child may be capable of wrongdoing, and quit making excuses for his bad behavior."
SO TRUE! I often tell people "You know, nobody's going to think that child's as cute or smart as his parents do!" gad, people worship their children now and want to BE THEIR FRIENDS!
They seem afraid of their children's moods, etc...is it guilt because moms aren't at home raising them? I don't know.
Steve! He lost his VISION in one eye? WOW! It's fabulous that you've befriended each other now! He must have been AWFUL!
did you get in much legal trouble??
Sorry you lost your accent.
The Late night guy Craig Ferguson is a Scott, right? LOVE his accent!
(I hope your dad's doing well, by the way xxx)
My mother today says "My daughters had enough friends, they needed a mother!" And she was quite a mother...wonderful in all ways.
Off-TOPICS;
beamish;
I just finished reading one of your yesterday's posts about the Islamist terrorism, and the killing of your friends and brothers.
I have worked on Anti-Terrorism, with an Experience of 30 years,
My branch is Intelligence and Analysis.
From the yesterday's posts, I understood that you the folks, you have only 1/10,000 of the information.
If you like, and If Z permits, I can illuminate some points; in that case, you will be able to target much better your enemies.
Let me know please, if you want some details.
SAM
Z, let's just say that lettuce is going to rot down, then they'll put it in their 'deli' for salads held under a heating lamp. I don't buy many things there, unless sealed by the factory or Mother Nature. They even re-date packaged meats like hams. I've seen where the original date has been scratched off & a new price label put over it. All I can say is if the 'health inspector' isn't getting rich, then he's dumb. I've called the Health Dep't. several times, & a now-deceased doctor's widow did also. She even called Baton rouge. Nada.
Once a year the people from the franchise come in & clean the place. I told one of them that I didn't buy much there. His reply: 'I don't blame you.'. I have some real horror stories about that place. They have a captive audience, too, since they are the only game in town.
Silvrlady
Silvrlady: I think we must be neighbors!
I returned four pounds of ROTTEN MEAT one day, after I'd dumped it into the pot to cook. I took it to the store and LOUDLY explained that the meat was green and stinky.
hehehehe.
I was soooo happy when Brookshires opened nearby. Hey, I'm all for mom and pop stores, but capitalism works for a reason.
Jen, also, you said "less freedom for kids to just be themselves nowdays. " What's that MEAN exactly?
----------
I was referring to the pressures that kids put on each other to dress a certain way, be sexually active so early, exclude others in order to "fit it", etc. The peer pressure has gone up a notch.
Me and my friends were fairly goofy, very MIDDLE class kids who did not wear brand name clothes, and weren't invited to the "cool kid's" parties (thank goodness!!).
Still, we felt confident in who we were and we fit in with our friends, unclassified and all.
I think the reason we felt the freedom to not give in to the pressure to drink, sleep around, etc, was because our parents were involved. Every homecoming/prom after-party I ever went to was at my house...and there was never alcohol, just good old fashioned goofy kids.
My mom knew my friends and made them feel welcome at my house.
I see so much wisdom in that now. Our house was Grand Central Station. It felt safe. No pressure to be anything but yourself. Your goofy self. :-)
I want my house to be that place for my kids.
Don't get me wrong, it wasn't perfect...mom wasn't waiting at the door with cookies and a smile everyday, and she didn't always know where I was after 10 pm, but her trust in me was the most valuable currency I had.
Jen, are you in NE La. If you say 'Yes', I think I know where.
Silvrlady
Beamish, were all your siblings like you at school?!!! Ya, I'm sorry; I wouldn't peg you as a bully but a scrapper, yes!!
My oldest brother was a high school state championship noseguard on the varsity football team. Gentlest dude you could ever get to know unless you put a quarterback with a football in front of him, which turned him into a cannibal. He joined the Navy, had a 20 year career in programming surface warfare artillery and guided missiles, now he has to fly all over the country and maintain precision equipment at various factories and companies when he's not just hanging out on a beach in Puerto Rico or the West Coast getting paid to look at women in bikinis while waiting for a service call. I'd say he's a success.
My older brother played football as well, 2nd string running back. He too joined the Navy, 20 years in as a nuke on aircraft carriers. He's now a maintenance supervisor at a civilian nuclear power plant making more money than he knows what to do with. Another success.
My little sister is the world's fastest typist, pretty much like me does her own jack of all trades thing, except her own thing has taken her to Egypt to teach children English.
Me, I was the runt of the litter among the boys. Football team equipment manager... tried my hand at gymnastics and wrestling. Was the bad boy of the chess club. Goofed off and partied too much in college after my eyesight and physical health problems kept me out of the military - I wanted Marine sniper school or Navy fighter pilot but it was not meant to be. Trying to get my schitt together and get into industrial robotics school.
Mine was Buddy Burnett, he's doing life in MCF Cedar Junction, I haven't kept in touch
One stark reality is that school teaches young people survival skills for complex societies. I think part of this training involves how best to react to bullies, drug pushers, creeps, divas, prima donnas, and jerks. I think it also involves dealing with success and failure. Life can be very difficult; our question therefore is this: “How do we best serve the interests of our young people?” Protecting them from every social reality may not be the best course of action.
Neither is lying to our children. We want to encourage them, but we shouldn’t do that by telling them they are exceptional in everything they do. Isn’t it true that there are no perfect people? The point is that sometimes nurturing has a harmful effect. Part of good mental health is having realistic expectations of self and others.
I don’t have statistics about suicide rates among school-aged children as they relate to individuals unable to cope with social reality. I do know that in some countries, significant numbers of young people commit suicide when they discover they are not in the highest achievement percentile within their own competitive society. People who harbor a death wish or see suicide as an appropriate response to failure or lack of achievement levels do not have good mental health. But if we prevented these people from taking their own life, would they only find an excuse to pull the plug later on? Are these people the kind that are more susceptible to drug abuse and other harmful behaviors? Is there an underlying message about people who, at an early age, would rather hang themselves than to stand up to bullies?
SAM,
My brothers are alive and well (Thank God). My childhood friend's older brother was killed in the '83 Marine barracks truckbombing in Beirut.
My fashion model acquaintance from college was wounded and scarred by a Palestinian suicide bomber in Tel Aviv, in 1998 if I remember correctly.
The USS Cole bombing is the closest that terrorism has come to my family, and it's quite likely the terrorists made dry practice runs against my brother's ship while it was in port in Yemen before the Cole relieved her.
I did discover that someone I went to high school with died in the World Trade Center on 9/11, but I didn't personally know him.
I've done some independent study of terrorism and its causes and principle actors, but I don't have any counter-terrorism training.
Funny thing is, when I I took the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) test in high school, I scored high enough that all four branches of the military wanted me to become an intelligence analyst / linguist / cryptographer, or a nuclear engineer like my brother. But, I was young, dumb, and full of... an eye for the ladies and wanted to party too much. Ah well.
"Then again, he told the principal of the school that I grew up in in Alabama"
Beamish..you grew up in Alabama, or your dad?
I did, too, and when I was in first grade, I used to put my head down on my desk as soon as the teacher started 'calling the roll' as they did back in the dark ages..don't know how they do it, now.
Anyway, the kids would snicker and giggle, and call me 'whistle britches' which they, somehow, got out of my name, and I would be so humiliated.
Also, in fourth grade, I got a part in a school play, and part of the costume required something which looked like a veil.
There was never extra money for much of anything, so my sweet mother tried to fashion one out of an old lace curtain. Of course, you have guessed by now, that some of the kids followed me home, shouting such things as, "Hey, window curtain!" and other things which caused great hilarity for them.
Then, as I began to develope in such a way that the boys were delighted, but made the girls extremely jealous, I had to listen to remarks from them such as, "Where'd you get those...Woolworth's?" Implying that...well, you know what they were implying. :)
But the most hurtful was when I was called, because of pure snobbery on their part, "white trash."
That was the thing that hurt most, and made me cry, many times.
My wonderful mother's words to me, and words that she told me to always remember were these: "Sticks and stones, may hurt my bones, but names will never hurt me." She said to me that I KNEW what I was, and that was what mattered, and what they THOUGHT, didn't matter at all.
But today? I just don't know, because violence, and the sense of self-importance makes such a huge difference when it comes to everything.
The matter of the President speaking of bullying, though, just smacks of hypocrisy, because never have I seen such bullying as I've seen, politically.
Ewwww.. GREEN MEAT!
That's why I order my steak rare in a restaurant. Restaurants tend to foist their bad meat on those who order their steaks well done to hide the dessication...
Bleeeeh.
Jan,
I was born in Birmingham. Lived there until I was 14, when I moved to Texas. Moved to Missouri when I was almost 17 and I've been here ever since.
My Deep Suthrin accent comes back when I'm around family or drunk or tired... hehehe.
I don't know what I'd do if I were a kid today in school, with people opting for gunplay rather than fistfights.
The advice of "take an ass-whoopin' or give one, but settle things and move on" doesn't work these days when the end of a fight leads to a funeral.
"They seem afraid of their children's moods, etc...is it guilt because moms aren't at home raising them? I don't know."
Z, I think that guilt may be part of it. I also think that pop psychology is involved. This idea that a spanking now and then will make a child someone who will hit first and ask questions later, is nonsense.
Children know when they've done wrong, and they know when punishment is deserved. If it's fairly meted out, they will respect their parents, and their rules.
If young children don't know it's their parents who are boss, they will take advantage, and end up running the darn house!
It seems to me, that spoiled children who always get their way, have excuses made for their unacceptable behavior, and are showered constantly with whatever they want, are much more likely not to have the ability to accept NO for an answer.
Plus, they grow up thinking the world owes them something, because they're used to getting what they want.
Pris
Hi beamish;
There is a declared war between two belligerents, one of the belligerents is the modern world, and the other part is a kind of thinking who lives in 1400 years ago where the ARAB Bedouins were burying their new born if it was a female.
In the new world, the female has the rights.
This reality of the Modern world do not match with the 1400 years ago thoughts.
That’s why the Islamism is drastically against the women, and this is the first amendment of the Islamism.
There are so many points that separates these two camps.
So, you want or not, there is a natural war between the ARIVISM and MODERNISM.
Now, imagine that, the Dinosaurs of 1400 years ago get the political power,
They will never be able to match with the new world.
The modern world, do not need an special weapon to defeat this PRE-HISTORIC enemy,
But, the fanatic monster needs a weapon, their weapon is the intelligent and programmable (Brain-Washed) weapon (Human Suicide BOMB ).
So behind any suicide Bomb, there is a programmer (Islamic Government).
The only weapon that the Modern world needs, is to keep and respect his own MODERN and DEMOCRATIC and SECULAR PRINCIPALS, this weapon is the ANTI-POISON of the Islamism.
To translate my last paragraph to a political language, we can resume that IF, the west do not appease and do not collaborates with the Islamism, the ISLAMISM will be melted.
Beamish;
Behind any Islamic Terrorism you will find an Islamic government backed by the west.
This is the BIBLE of the anti-Terrorism,
Now, if you want the details about Beirut, Telaviv Bombing (several hundreds), uss cool, and many others included 9/11, I can provide you.
SAM
"I was diagnosed a borderline sociopath due to the carnage I launched on his face with a baseball bat."
Really Steve....how much time in prison did you get? Or was it Parole with early release and a check in every week to a shrink too?
Mustang, you said "I do know that in some countries, significant numbers of young people commit suicide when they discover they are not in the highest achievement percentile within their own competitive society."
Here, kids are chastised by their peers if they do well....unbelievable.
School SHOULD teach the realities of society, get us ready to compete, etc....I'm not sure that's the case anymore...but that should be a big part of schooling.
Beamish...industrial robot class NOW? I hope so :-)
Jan! Your mother had a leg up on Bob Mackie and Carol Burnett's DRAPERY DRESS..remember? From Gone with the Wind!? :-)
SAM: You said "Beamish;
Behind any Islamic Terrorism you will find an Islamic government backed by the west."
that's something you say often and it still puzzles any American reading that...I don't think I"m alone. You speak in riddles and we need cold, hard facts! :-)
"You put a PENCIL thru a kid's hand and I LAUGHED MY youknowwhat off!! :=)"
Yup...I made sure I sat to his left on the aisle. He was a lefty...I a righty ( got the picture? ) when he laid his pen down...wham....filled him with # 2 lead. I'm sure Johnny M still has the scar. All the time I was looking straight ahead at the teacher to see if he noticed. He did....cause JM howled like a bansheee in heat!
It was my personal form of a one handed crucifixion! Nailed him thru the hand.
Steve, I am of Scottish descent, descended from a sept of the Clan Gunn from Sutherland in the northern Highlands.
Z-Man is the name of a sandwich created by Oklahoma Joe's BBQ in Kansas City, my favorite restaurant in the world. It is made with pulled pork and cole slaw.
SAM: You said "Beamish;
Behind any Islamic Terrorism you will find an Islamic government backed by the west."
that's something you say often and it still puzzles any American reading that...I don't think I"m alone. You speak in riddles and we need cold, hard facts! :-)
Z, this might be the cold hard fact you are looking for. Recall the Oklahoma City bombing and how that is always pointed to as being "Christian terrorism", even as recently as yesterday by Keith Ellison, the Minnesota Muslim? Also recall at the time of the attack that another Arabic looking individual was said to have been seen with McVey? A television reporter investigated the story and found solid evidence that this was the case. But alas that individual, even though identified slipped into the oblivion of anonymity and seemed to disappear.
Now that very individual, Hussain Hashem al-Husseini has reappeared and has been arrested in Quincy, Mass. Thanks to the reporting of Robert Spencer, Pam Geller and Doug Hagmann the arrest of a homeless man who was committing an act of mayhem (bullying?) on another homeless man. What are the odds that he'll be thoroughly investigated and properly prosecuted for the prior affiliation to an act of terror? Not good, methinks, since the government has bent over backwards to deny any evidence presented to it in the case.
You think the crazed Islamic lunatics are the worst enemies of humanity? There are worse sitting places of power and influence in the American government aiding and abetting the Islamic loons, IMO.
Waylon
P.S.
Z, don't you have the eyes and ears of a reporter on the ground near the site of this man's arrest?
So, RedWood, maybe you ought to change your screen name to PILATE? :-)
WAYLON:
But WHY? What is the objective of islam here in this country and why would good Americans be behind this?
VANITY FAIR magazine had an astonishing article by Gore Vidal about Timothy McVeigh....it was about how McV had started hanging with Arab young men. His sister attested to that, too...Believe it or not Vidal was one of the few people McV opened up to in prison; that's why his sis talked to Vidal.
Then, you're right; soon after the OK bombings, eye witnesses said a dark swarthy guy was in the truck with McV and I THINK some other dark guy was hanging around somewhere.........
Vidal told all about this...on and on........I remember being intrigued and I think this was July 2001 because I was living in Paris and was so lucky to find a VANITY FAIR (which cost $12, I think!)...ANyway, when 9/11 hit, I remembered that article, remembered the Arab connection and, of course, couldn't help wonder what was up with that....could there be a connection?
But, the Arab thing disappeared quickly. People kind of sloughed it off as if all the eyewitnesses were blind! !
Waylon, all that's fine but WHY? WHY would our gov't be in cahoots with Islam? Was it just lip service that the Republicans gave about drilling when they knew that the Democrats wouldn't allow it? WHy have we allowed ourselves to be so deeply in need of arab oil when we've got SO MUCH?
Is everybody in on some big scheme? It can't be! NO secret can last like that...unless peoples' lives are threatened; or that of their children. Then you get Michelle Bachman and others who are all American and ready to fight till the death (at least it seems so)
Who and WHAT is doing this? WHY the Muslim connection?
My stepson just told me he read my blog about the Minnesota Muslims and how muslims all over America suddenly are making demands and he said he just can't believe America's not saying "So, you won't cut pork? Get another job....so you won't study with dirty feet,was at home!"..but, of course, he admits it's the same in Germany...
WHAT IS UP?
Z, I don't know why "good Americans" would side with a primitive dark age ideology any more than I can answer why "good Americans" or any other nationality for that matter would become enthralled with the enslaving ideology of socialism and all that it has shown itself to be over the twentieth century.
Why would "good Americans" as far back as the early decades of the last century look for ways to weasel socialism into the seats of power in the country as a replacement for the founding ideals of those who founded the country? Maybe all people in some ways or others have a potential for both good and evil and without constant vigilance evil takes over from the good within the soul of the individual. Just a guess ...
Waylon
Z and Waylon;
The answer of your MULTIPLE WHY is just a simple word.
A magic word.
The Italians who are expert on the WESTERN/Spaghetti films have made a very significative film and have explained it with your American WORDS.
Those MAGIC American WORDS are << FOR A HANDFUL OF DOLLARS >>.
See that film, and you will find that how the American EDUCATED CIVILIZED CHRISTIAN Patriots can monetize COUNTRY, NATION, Constitution, CHRIST, MOTHER and FATHER and SISTER and BABY for a HANDFUL of Mullah Dollars.
a very short example at 2007 " Collin Powel, Madeleine Albright, and 3 other EU ex. F. Ministers held a conference on Colombia University to promote the peace (for Ahmadinejad) and smash BUSH (he was warmongering)”.
Each one of those conferanciers was paid 2,5 Millions of USD by Ahmadinejad.
SAM
Call to action
part one
March 14, 2011
The President of the United States of America
The Honorable Members of United States Congress
The Honorable Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton,
The Honorable Secretary of Treasury, Timothy Franz Geithner
Re: NIAC lobby invitation to State and Treasury Department to attend a seminar sponsored by Iranian-American businesses aimed at easing critical trade and economic sanctions
We, the undersigned Iranian-Americans and friends of Iran, formally request that the members of Congress ask President Obama to direct the State and Treasury Department staff to decline the invitation to participate in the upcoming National Iranian American Council (NIAC) sponsored seminar to be held in California, on April 22, 2011.
NIAC, an obvious Islamic Republic lobby group, founded by Mr. Trita Parsi, which has been an advocate for dialogue and diplomacy, as well as, the lifting of trade and economic sanctions against the Islamic Republic of Iran.
For my fistful of dollars, see.
I was long tall and skinny but very fast. Was bullied on a regular basis every year from age 4 until I was a senior in HS. By HS senior year the bullies had figured out that I was crazy and would beat your butt to a pulp cause I didn't know when to stop, punching, kicking and stomping.
Last one was junior year of HS. I was 6-2 and 155 dripping wet, bully was All conference lineman, 6-4, 240. Not a good match but he insisted by pushing me and shoving me from the lunch room to the Mechanical Drawing classroom building. Inside I asked him to stop, one more time, he came on like a bull, I ducked, sidesteped, picked up a mechanical drawing stool and kept coming around until the stool met his ribs as he has pitched against the table in his lunge at me. Four broken ribs didn't make the football coach love me at all but the bully left me alone. It took a 6-6 basketball player and a 240lb lineman to keep me off of him as he hit the floor screaming in pain and by that time his face was bloody from my trying to kick his face in. Teacher was not happy with me but the rest of the class stood by my story. That was the last bully I ever had to contend with.
My dad always said, "You had better never start it, but you dang well better finish it!"
I didn't like to see other kids bullied and would often step between them and the bully to see if they wanted to take on someone who was not afraid of them. Usually ended with them walking away and leaving the other kid alone. A couple of times they had to learn the hard way not to bully.
Didn't like fighting then, still don't but as the old song goes,
You don't pull on Supermans Cape, Don't spit in the wind and you don't mess with Ticker. Aw well, close enough on the song.
Beamish: SAM had said "a very short example at 2007 " Collin Powel, Madeleine Albright, and 3 other EU ex. F. Ministers held a conference on Colombia University to promote the peace (for Ahmadinejad) and smash BUSH (he was warmongering)”."
So you're right...to not go to war was the point....to make Bush look like a warmongerer.
Let's all remember how fast Powell turned against Bush on the war.
WAYLON...yes, I get that, but ISLAM IN AMERICA? WHY?
WHY is it such a BIG DEAL only since 9/11?
My own German stepson who's visiting said just today "We had no problems with muslims until after 9/11....sounds like the same for you here, why is that? They lived their lives, we lived ours, nobody cared who worshiped WHAT.."
WHY? THAT's the WHY I mean.
SAM...this Islamic Republica lobby group is paid for by Ahmedinejad, right?
Let me get this straight: The NIAC wants sanctions lifted, they don't want America to go to war against them, ..etc. WHat's their stand on Iran's nuclear hopes of weapons?
And, if they want sanctions lifted, why would they not want our Treasury and State Dept staffs to hear a discussion on that?
Sorry, I'm confused.
Ticker, You said "You had better never start it, but you dang well better finish it!" was what your dad told you.
Today, I'd wager a bet that young dads tell their kids today "You had better never start it and you'd better walk away if somebody else does because sticking up for yourself or anything else, even if it's important and of good values, isn't the right thing to do....."
Z,
Who was Bush going to run against after 2007, that he needed to be painted as a warmonger?
I'm no expert, but SAM's intelligence analysis seems to lack both intelligence and analysis.
Z, you are correct. We have become a nation of "girly" boys and men. I told my daughter the same thing. She was no bully but could more than take care of herself as she did against one of SW Guilford's biggest football players who couldn't keep his hands to himself.(he reached his hands between her legs and groped her as she was at her locker) She nailed him against the locker and he came away with a "pair" the size of tennis balls plus a bloody face from a broken nose. He was lucky! The boys dad wanted to know why my kid was bullying his son who was a star football player .As he ranted I pointed to my 5'5" 125lb (track star)daughter and said, uh you mean that "BIG BULLY?" End discussion. The rest of the team ostracized the punk for being a jackass and told coach to put my daughter in the game in the punks place cause she had more "balls" than the other player did. I know hers would have been much smaller for sure. He required a trip to the hospital for both his nether regions and his broken nose. He started it, she finished. Case closed. No one bullied her period.
Beamish, SAM is there and does practically nothing BUT study what's going on in IRan and has lived through this stuff; we respond to the newspapers and television's versions.
I have no problem believing that Powell and Albright wanted peace so they'd support Iran-perpetrated language like COWBOY and WARMONGER.
2007?? the point was that Iran wanted sanctions lifted, for our people to paint Bush as the bad guy and it worked.
Ticker, your daughter's got PLUCK!!
FROM SAM:
Beamish...SAM is being filtered, he simply can't comment with this stuff on my site so he went it to my email and I'm publishing it. I"m tired of feeling afraid of whatever the gov't thinks. Here it is:
Powel was never right or wrong about the Iranian Nuclear BOMB, Powel is an spin, look at these powel's spinnings:
(Colin) Powell: Iran is a long way from having nuclear weapon
Source: AP
19 NOV. 2007: KUWAIT CITY: Iran is a long way from acquiring a nuclear weapon and is "foolish" for not investing its resources in its people instead of a nuclear program, former U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday.
"I think Iran is a long way from having anything that could be anything like a nuclear weapon," Powell told a gathering of bankers, businessmen and diplomats;
<< http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3070712 >>.
But on 18 NoV 2004, he himself said that Iran Closer to Nuclear WEAPON!<< http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/video-shows-devastating-japan-earthquake/6pcbgi0 >>
So, how is it possible that Iran which was closer to NB at 2004, it becomes suddenly far from NB 3 years later.
Beamish is able to analyze this BACK SPIN,
Powell and many USA high ranked politicals are payed with the MULLAH DOLLARS.
They are the Islamists hand in USA.
SAM
Z: Beamish.. what do you think?
What do I think?
I think what I've always thought - Colin Powell is an idiot.
That said, the STUXNET computer virus that hit Iranian nuclear plants did set them back for years, how many is anyone's guess.
"IF THEY HAD MARCHES AND PROTESTS SAYING THOSE PEOPLE DON'T REPRESENT THE MODERN DAY MUSLIMS..."
Nah...I doubt that 10 years after the fact would have any meaning whatsoever to the majority of thinking Americans. They had their chance to nullify the cheering and laughter in Jersey City and throughout all mooslim mud holes.
Yet they still push their friviolus disgusting demands upon all of us. The NYC mosque, underwear loons and on and on.
17,000 mooslim attacks so far...Christians / Jews...zip...nada.
Besides Ms. Z....it's their duty to lie and obfuscate. Even that toad Bill Maher had ellison on his "show" and put it to him.
Cause Maher knows damn well that his brand of "entertainment" and atheism puts him and his ilk on the short list to allah's nirvanna.
"iceberg lettuce, ICEBERG!, is over $3.40 a head!"
I say LET IT ROT in their produce bins. No one needs lettuce to survive.
Let it all ROT until they get the message.
We can fight back.....we just don't buy it...yes?
beamish;
staxnet was at the end of 2010 and in the begining of 2011.
Powell's comment was on 2007, when BUSH WAS THERE.
SAM
SAM, is it your understanding, if you are involved at all or have acquaintances involved as you've told me in the past, that the virus DID put the Iranian nuclear capabilities back a few years?
And Germany was involved with America, right? SIemens, I believe?
Yes Z;
This is not my words, this is veridict and exact, USA forced Siemence to collaborate, and Stuxnet was partly made by the Israelis, but all these happened 3 years after Powell's comment.
Z; the plot was to smash BUSH, because BUSH was the only president who wanted to fight Islamism, BUSH was the only president who didn't followed the BB's AGENDA after 2004.
BUSH was completly different after 2004, HE JUST WACKED UP after 2004,
That's why powell resigned, and the world became UPSIDE DOWN to GWB.
SAM
Sam, thank you, but please explain this better. "BB"??
Z; the plot was to smash BUSH, because BUSH was the only president who wanted to fight Islamism, BUSH was the only president who didn't followed the BB's AGENDA after 2004.
BUSH was completly different after 2004, HE JUST WACKED UP after 2004,
That's why powell resigned, and the world became UPSIDE DOWN to GWB.
Do you mean you think Bush went bad after 2004 somehow? What do you think happened?
WHY do you think Powell resigned? Our news was that he didn't feel the Iraq war was necessary and, personally, I think he was embarrassed by the information he presented that day to the U.N., though he surely must have reviewed and checked it himself.
BB is the Bilder B.
Bush was encouraged to remove just Saddam, this is what he did.
Bush designated Gen. Gardiner as Iraqi Governor.
Gardiner was a MILITARY MAN and he wanted to securise and stabilize IRAQ, and he wanted to construct an strong IRAQ, BUSH liked Gardiner's AGENDA very much.
But, the BB behind had another AGENDA which was spreading the Islamism in the ME.
That's why, Gardiner was replaced by Paul Bremer after 3 weeks.
and Bremer engaged QODS FORCES to dissmantel Iraqi infrastructure.
and Iraq was delivered to IRAN.
And USA leave IRAQ.
BUSH, after 2004 didn't want to follow the BB's AGENDA, he wanted the democracy be instaled in the ME and not the Islamism.
I will try to find those 2004 Documents which shows the plot against BUSH.
Do you remember that on FPM I told it to you and I wrote about it?
I was filtered several times and I was discovered by them.
SAM
Now, see this Please, it was just 10 days ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR6B1pAhUrw
SAM
http://www.ncr-iran.org/en/images/stories/il-310-ukconference-l.pdf
Louis Freeh
Director of Federal Bureau of
Investigation (1993-2001)
De-list PMOI now,
it was listed without
consulting FBI
2 - With respect to the designation of the MEK... I was not consulted in 1997,
that the Department of State had listed the MEK... In 1997, the government
of Iran duped the US government by inducing it to list the MEK as a foreign
terrorist organisation, without consulting the FBI, which you might find
interesting. Well, the successful duping of the United States occurred,
because the United States government believed that the president there
was a moderate, the president under which all the nuclear programs
had been developed, and this was going to open up the dialogue with
Iran. Well, obviously it didn’t work. The Bush administration was similarly
duped in 2003 with the carrot that the Iranian forces would not actively
attack US forces in Iraq which, of course, was not only a travesty before
that progress was made, but was a travesty after a promise was made.
Most of the IUDs were by the Iranian forces.
We have administrations being duped... We now have in this new
administration the opportunity to do the right thing, but it should be
now... the delisting has to immediately take place. There is no reason to
wait for another third Court of Appeal petition by the people of Iran who
were oppressed by this. The administration has a great opportunity to do
it, so we are not days behind the events that are happening around the
world again. Insist and use the influence we still have in Iraq to ensure the
safety of those people [in Ashraf], and support the engine of freedom...
SAM
Okay, Sam..why does the BB want the spread of islam throughout the Middle East?
ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
Islamic Kaliphat can be a good partener for business.
This is the BB's resumed AGENDA.
If 1,2 Billions muslims becomes a unified power under the control of the Mullahs of IRAN, even with a Nuclear Bomb, is good for their AGENDA.
SAM
Oh for fuck's sake. The Bilderburg Group?
What about Rod Serling and the inventors of velcro?
The people who replaced tan M&Ms with UN Blue ones?
John Bolton on MEK;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxsQG7HNXmk
SAM
The MEK is not listed as a Foreign Terrorist Organization because of the "Bilderburgs."
The MEK is listed as a terrorist organization because:
- They were extremists even in the Iranian Islamic revolution against the Shah.
- They assassinated several American soldiers and civilian contractors
- They participated in the hostage taking and capture of the US Embassy in Iran
- After turning their violence upon Iranian religious leaders, they were expelled from Iran and are hated by the Iranian people, a hatred inflamed even further by MEK's service to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war.
- MEK was given UN food-for-oil money by Saddam Hussein to continue their arming and terrorist training activities. MEK also participated in the slaughter of Kurds and Shia for their host and benefactor Saddam Hussein.
My conditions for removing MEK from the US State Department terrorist organization list:
1. MEK must raise every American, Iraq Kurd, and Iraqi Shia it has killed from the dead.
2. Maryam Rajavi must be turned over to the Iraqi Kurdish people for summary execution for her role in commanding MEK tanks to kill Kurds for Saddam
3. Every member of MEK must write a letter to every American citizen that has been alive since 1979 sincerely apologizing for breathing oxygen produced by American trees.
4. Every member of MEK that has lost a family member to US bombing in Iraq must write a letter to the Pentagon thanking them for killing their family.
Until MEK is willing to see things my way, they can stay on the terrorist list.
SAM, you've addressed already some of Beamish's accusations:
when you have time, please do more.
Beamish, you can think what you want about the BB Group but what the hell do you think they're doing? Just happy meetings talking about the world economy and ...what? I'm curious.
beamish;
All you wrote is the Mullahs Propaganda against MEK, the Mullahs know what you hate, and it is done.
To find the truth inside those intox is very easy, go to the INTERLINK site, this is the Mullahs outside site, and you will find what you wrote there.
These INTOXS are repeated in the Regime's funded sites.
you have the choice to believe on Mullahs Propaganda or your congressmen and responsibles from Democrats to republicans.
SAM
beamish see this video, the first 5 Mn is Maryam Rajavi, and other 15 minuts are the Americans that you may trust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jXVAXuQ4WI&feature=related
SAM
beamish we are in a overall war against ISLAMISM.
In this war, Information and Intox are used as ARMS.
The Islamists are welcomed in USA and your corrupted left became the Islamists tool,
While our RESISTANCE is listed terrorist and MEK is not allowed to be heard.
I think that this is not acceptable by your constitutions, isn't it?
I brought you your own documents, from your very respectful people, the people who admit their mistake about our RESISTANCE.
I hope that you will find to read the comments of the trust able people rather than MULLAHS PROPAGANDA.
SAM
And I brought you the history of MEK in the context of international terrorism and war crimes on Iraqi soil, SAM.
Are the Kurds and Shia in Iraq that survived Maryam Rajavi leading MEK tanks to attack them for Saddam Husein lying?
What does MEK think about Saddam Hussein, the guy that gave them money for terrorism that was supposed to go to the Iraqi people for food?
Why does MEK have so many names? [MKO; Mujahedin-e Khalq; Muslim Iranian Students' Society; National Council of Resistance; National Council of Resistance (NCR); Organization of the People's Holy Warriors of Iran; The National Liberation Army of Iran (NLA); The People's Mujahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI); National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI); Sazeman-e Mujahedin-e Khalq-e Iran]
Do MEK leaders sit around changing their name because they think it fools intelligence agencies? Or because it helps them trick people into financing them by hiding who they really are?
beamish;
All those names are the different Resistance organizations in relationships with MEM, But, MEK, MKO, OMPI, Modjahedine Khalgh, Sazemane Modjahedin Khalgh are the Multiple Appelation de MEK, But MEK, MKO, OMPI are the Abreviations that the Americans have given to the Resistance,
NCRI or NCR, is a Coallition of all the forces and paties and personalities who want the regime change in IRAN according to an AGENDA, and MEK is one of those organizations in the CONCIL.
NLA is the National Liberation ARMY.
OK, if you believe that Sadam was funding MEK, after 2003, who FUNDS MEK?
beamish, my own family is massacred by the regime, I pay everything that I gain to support MEK, there are the millions of the IRANIANS who fund MEK.
Listen to Maryam Rajavi, she says >> we don't want your money, your help, your war, leave us, we will change this regime.
beamish,
who don't want American dollars?
what is the difference between American Dollars and Saddam dollars?
If MEK was fund by MEK, why Maryam declares that she don't want your money?!
How do you explain your non logical statement.
BTW, why you are so afraid to watch those VIDEOs, are you afraid from your own people's truth?
watch those Video, and comment the US GENERALS views on MEK.
DID you heard Odierno's statement about MEK?
SAM
beamish;
When you face the hard reality you chose the personal attack, and expulsion.
Post your ORDER to Z to ask me to go out.
and I will disappear immediately.
But you can watch those video alone if you wish.
English is your native language but you finish your posts by insulting, your literature hurts the HARD REALITY!
SAM
SAM,
Your position is binary and simplistic. You think whoever's not for you and MEK is "for the Mullahs" when that is not necessarily true.
You are overlooking another possibility for me:
I can dislike the Islamist mullahs AND the socialist MEK terrorists simultaneously, just like most Iranians do.
Z,
Beamish, you can think what you want about the BB Group but what the hell do you think they're doing? Just happy meetings talking about the world economy and ...what? I'm curious.
I suspect that these days that they're still keeping cooperative ties and dialogue between the United States and European nations strong as they did against Soviet Communism during the Cold War.
That is when they're not illegalizing drugs that can counteract their secret orbital mind control lasers.
:P
Seriously, does it bother you that the Pittsburgh Steelers hold meetings behind closed doors and won't give their playbook to other teams?
Obviously, they're plotting to put flouride in bong water.
beamish;
What I said that put you on a red anger?
Did I insulted you?
Is there any insult in those Videos?
The only thing that those honorable American say are against the Mullahs.
So, why are you ANGRY?
Those honorable Americans are decoding the real nature of ISLAMISM, They have found their natural friends and allies in MEK.
Why, you are so heated?!!
Any time I ask you to watch those Videos, you lose your own control.
So, my answer to your personal attacks and insults is HEY MAN, WATCH THOSE VIDEOS.
I think that I have touched a very sensitive point on you.
The Honorable Americans witnesses is the GREATEST insult to you, that's why, you became so MAD.
beamish;
look at the face of LOUISE FREEH, the EX; FBI director, you don't detect the ANGEL TRUTH? on that clear face?
He is American, I'm Iranian, HE IS MY BROTHER, HE IS like HOWARD OF BASKERVILLE.
THIS IS THE GREATEST INSULT TO THE MULLAHS;
YES, by SALUTING LOUISE FREEH I Insult the MULLAHS;
What a divine arm the truth, like an sword, it tears the curtains which hidden the liars under any cloth.
Watch those VIDEOS
SAM
SAM,
I've watched the videos.
How many times do I have to watch the videos until the American soldiers and civilian contractors killed by MEK in Tehran in 1979 come back to life?
How many times do I have to watch the videos until MEK gives back the UN oil-for-food money Saddam Hussein financied them with to the people of Iraq it was supposed to go to?
How many times do I have to watch the videos until history changes and American troops didn't encounter starving Iraqis in 2003 while MEK wasn't missing a meal under Saddam Hussein's protection and financing?
How many times do I have to watch the videos until the Kurds in Iraq killed by MEK tanks come back to life?
How many times do I have to watch the videos until MEK reinstalls Shah Pahlavi to the throne in Iran?
How many times do I have to watch the videos until MEK stops making propaganda and using front groups to circumvent anti-terrorism finance laws and just turns over the MEK terrorists that killed Americans and helped take Americans hostage in the Tehran embassy?
How many times do I have to watch the videos until Maryam Rajavi comes out of hiding and surrenders herself in to the Iraqi Kurds for trial and execution for ordering MEK to run them down with tanks?
There's a problem with your videos, SAM. They don't change reality and history.
Those American officials may be willing to forgive MEK for the toppling of the Shah, the killing of Americans, the taking of Americans hostage, the slaughter of Iraqi Kurds and Shia, and the MEK terrorist bombings outside of Iran.
I am not.
read all about the MEK monsters
[heavily documented article with links to lots of material proving MEK is a terrorist group and cult]
Particularly interesting is the PDF files of letters between MEK and "Imam Khomenei" in 1979 and 1980 back when MEK didn't have any problems with the Islamists at all, as long as they were killing Americans.
MEK has been an anti-American terrorist group since the 1960s, a lot longer than it's been having a tiff with the mullahs over....
...letting the American hostages in Tehran go in 1981.
Case closed.
So Beamish,
What do you think of Bolton, WOolsey, Tom Ridge and Giuliani, to name only a few, who are demanding MEK be taken off the terror list today?
You think we know more than they do of recent MEK actions?
Z,
I think they're far too forgiving of a group that worked to overthrow the US friend Shah Pahlavi, that killed Americans,
that helped take the US embassy workers hostage, that wanted to EXECUTE those hostages, and that split with the mullahs and joined up with Saddam Hussein only because those American hostages were let go.
It takes a very profound hatred of the United States of America and a masturbatory desire to see Americans killed to overlook the history of MEK.
"...of recent MEK actions."
That's rather salad bar picking of history.
I'm fairly certain you don't hug Turks that deny the Armenian Genocide occured and that their grandparents and great-grandparents carried it out.
MEK is worse. They participated in the taking of American hostages. They participated in slaughtering the Kurds in Iraq. And deny it to your face.
Martyam Rajavi is wanted for war crimes in Iraq.
MEK worships Maryam Rajavi. No, literally. It's a violent terrorist group that has become a violent brainwashed personality cult.
Why do no other Iranian opposition groups want anything to do with MEK?
MEK says it's because they're "tools of the mullahs."
They say it's because MEK is bat-shit crazy.
Exactly like that.
They're damaged goods. Far too much anti-American baggage for my tastes.
Iraqis starved and died so Saddam could arm and train these terrorists to attack Kurds and Shia.
I can understand why Guiliani, Ridge, and Woolsey like them because they're idiots. Bolton's a surprise.
But they're all operating from a shallow enemy of my enemy is my friend perspective that ignores key historical facts.
They seem to want a civil war in Iran agianst the mullahs and don't care who gives them one.
Rather short-sighted thinking.
Another analogy (I like analogies) - imagine if Che Guevara and his followers were still around and alive, and they had a falling out with Castro, and began lobbying the US Congress for money to overthrow the Cuban government.
Would you ignore all of Che Guevara's history and the Cuban people's own hatreds of Che Guevara just for the opportunity to have a proxy force to fight Castro?
Would you expect the Cuban-Americans in Florida, people with relatives slain by Che Guevara, to sit quietly while some tone deaf Americans wear Che Guevara t-shirts and make historical revisionist propaganda movies about him? Of course they wouldn't (and don't).
That's what US support of Maryam Rajavi and MEK will bring from the Iranian-American community.
Not to mention the Iraqi Kurds and Shia starved and killed by Saddam Hussein so Maryam Rajavi could run tanks over them when they complained.
The Iraqi government wants to try Maryam Rajavi for war crimes.
We should be helping Iraq find Maryam Rajavi so she can be tried and executed by them.
Did we fight to overthrow Saddam Hussein and bring justice to the oppressed Kurds and Shia there so that when they form a post-Saddam government and started executing people like Saddam Hussein and ordering the execution of Tariq Aziz (which for some reason they haven't yet) that the MEK leaders that DIRECTLY participated in the slaughter of Kurds and Shia should be let off the hook and PROTECTED by America?
Maybe the foreign policy "geniuses" do, but I think differently.
And not just because MEK killed Kurds and Shia.
They've killed Americans too.
MEK has not always been enemies of the mullahs in Iran. They used to be hand-in-hand and only split because the American hostages in Tehran were let go instead of executed!!!!
To support MEK is sickness.
Or a depth of cynicism I can't muster.
Cynical like Klansmen and white supremacists that chuckle when black street gangs kill each other.
...as long as they keep making rap songs about it.
For Woolsey and the rest to 'forgive' means there's a lot of change since Saddam, in my opinion.
And a LOT we don't know about.
Yes, killing Americans should NEVER BE IGNORED OR PUT UP WITH......still, I've got to go with Bolton.
The only thing that's changed with MEK since Saddam is that now instead of "Death to America" they say "Death to America because they're tools of the mullahs."
Nobody in actual Iranian opposition groups takes MEK seriously. Most shun them. The Iranian people themselves would string them up just for helping Saddam alone.
MEK created the mullah monster mess in Iran with their work for the Soviets in deposing the Shah in the first place.
If you were an Iranian living in Iran where MEK catapulted the oppressive mullahs into power over you with a Soviet-fed anti-American line, would you want them coming to "liberate" you?
MEK has quite a resume for terror.
First they worked for the Soviets.
Then they worked for the mullahs.
Then they worked for Saddam Hussein.
I don't think we need to hire them to. Let's support people who actually care about Iranians.
...and not Maryam Rajavi's bank account.
In short, MEK hates the mullahs not because the mullahs are evil, but because the mullahs are not evil enough for their tastes.
As for Guiliani, Woolsey, Ridge, and Bolton, they probably ought to be investigated to see if they're providing material support to a terrorist group like MEK, and if found guilty, sent to prison.
....preferably some federal prison that can guarantee in writing that they'll be raped every night.
...because there is no credible question that MEK is a terrorist group.
The Nazis killed millions of people but Hitler loved dogs! Let's put neo-Nazis in charge of the ASPCA!
Doesn't wash.
beamish, I think you've made your point, thanks!
beamish said...
As for Guiliani, Woolsey, Ridge, and Bolton, they probably ought to be investigated to see if they're providing material support to a terrorist group like MEK, and if found guilty, sent to prison.
....preferably some federal prison that can guarantee in writing that they'll be raped every night.
March 13, 2011 5:43 PM
Anonymous,
You quoted me correctly.
I used strong words against anyone in American government seeking to redeem and rehabilitate MEK from their bloody anti-American history.
Believe it or not, I softened the words that immediately came to mind.
But, I question whether or not there actually is a serious effort in Washington to take MEK off the Foreign Terrorist Organization list. My investigation of the matter points to it being smoke and mirrors propaganda presented by MEK itself, and not really anything but MEK trying to pretend it has friends in the US Government that it actually doesn't.
Guiliani, Ridge, Woolsey, Bolton... what branch of government are they in?
::crickets chirp::
... working with the MEK would mean to cease speaking to the Iranian people. Furthermore, it would provide validation for those voices in the Iranian regime that have long accused the U.S. of meddling in their affairs, unnecessarily strengthening the domestic position of hardliners within the system. In a country with varied opinions on all subjects, the contempt reserved for the MEK is nearly universal."
As it should be in America as well.
Where did SAM go?
Surely he believes his cult leader, er, "president in exile" should return to Iraq to face trial for killing Kurds and Shia and serving as Saddam Hussein's personal army, right?
Surely SAM would like to see Maryam Rajavi executed for ordering MEK tanks to kill Iraqi Kurds, right?
Beamish, can you stop, please?
Isn't this a little much?
We get it...
Please, it's over....What can Sam say to you that won't set you off again? what's the point?
Please, Beamish.....
Z;
Why you don't let him to expose his real nature.
Rape, Executions, Slandering, Diabolizing, Torture, are the elements of the Mullahs.
Here, with no efforts, the same nature, presents himself.
What I asked him, was to watch those videos;
and he did.
and his is exploded.
The truth is a DIVINE ARM.
Let him continue.
SAM
What can Sam say to you that won't set you off again?
Lots of things.
SAM could stop denying MEK's role in killing American soldiers and civilian contractors in Iran in the 1970s, and admit to it.
SAM could stop smearing everyone that disagrees with MEK as "tools of the mullahs."
SAM could call for Maryam Rajavi to be tried and executed for her war crimes against the Iraqi Kurds.
Or, dare I say it, we all, including you, Z, could call for Maryam Rajavi to be tried and executed for her war crimes.
Surely I'm not the only one viscerally disgusted by Maryam Rajavi.
Why you don't let him to expose his real nature.
Rape, Executions, Slandering, Diabolizing, Torture, are the elements of the Mullahs.
And running over Kurds with tanks is your element, SAM.
Admit it. MEK didn't hate the mullahs in Iran until they let the American hostages go.
No bullshit video is going to change that fact of history.
So Mullah beamish read this, and explode again
http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=3017
SAM
Or, if you prefer...
Va te faire enculer, SAM.
You "B'mokh."
For those who care to know, "b'mokh / bimokh" means "brainless" or "mindless" in Farsi.
I aim with precision weaponry.
http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/amibeing.htm
What is bullying? (Selected)
• constant nit-picking, fault-finding and criticism of a trivial nature - the triviality, regularity and frequency betray bullying; often there is a grain of truth (but only a grain) in the criticism to fool you into believing the criticism has validity, which it does not; often, the criticism is based on distortion, misrepresentation or fabrication
• simultaneous with the criticism, a constant refusal to acknowledge you and your contributions and achievements or to recognise your existence and value
• constant attempts to undermine you and your position, status, worth, value and potential
• where you are in a group ... being singled out and treated differently; for instance, everyone else can get away with murder but the moment you put a foot wrong - however trivial - action is taken against you
• being isolated and separated from colleagues, excluded from what's going on, marginalized, overruled, ignored, sidelined, frozen out, sent to Coventry
• being belittled, demeaned and patronised, especially in front of others
• being humiliated, shouted at and threatened, often in front of others
• having your responsibility increased but your authority taken away
• having unrealistic goals set, which change as you approach them
• finding that everything you say and do is twisted, distorted and misrepresented
• being subjected to disciplinary procedures with verbal or written warnings imposed for trivial or fabricated reasons ...
• being coerced into leaving through no fault of your own ...
مریم رجوی شلخته و فاحشه است.
Yeah FeeThinky,
I'm "bullying" someone representing a known terrorist organization because I'm a "rapist, an executioner, a slanderer, a diabolizer, and a torturer."
Why are you piping up, FeebThinky? Don't you have some Holocaust Deniers Anonymous meeting to attend with Alex Jones and Noam Chomsky?
FP, please stop.
You wouldn't want to hear my thoughts on who's a bully.
And the American soldiers and civilian contractors killed in Iran in the mid-1970s by MEK, before there ever even was an Islamic Revolution in Iran, they must have been tools of the mullahs too. Time traveling from the future.
I'm not attacking anyone, except perhaps SAM. I do have an informed opinion.
I'm just sitting here quietly soaking up and chillin' while being called a "rapist, executioner, slanderer, diabolizer, torturer" and a "tool of the mullahs" by a member of an warped America-hating terrorist cult who's only real beef with the Iranian mullahs is that they didn't execute American hostages when they had the chance.
You should see me when I'm pissed off or "embarrassed."
Then I'd start pointing out that there are also MEK mercenaries that are currently killing people in Libya for Quadafi.
Something SAM also won't tell you.
This Japanese tsunami thing is a bummer. Totally took Charlie Sheen off the front page.
"sent to Coventry" ????
Z, believe it or not, the word verification is "psych" I kid you not.
Beamish, can you stop, please?
Isn't this a little much?
We get it...
Please, it's over....What can Sam say to you that won't set you off again? what's the point?
Please, Beamish.....
Words of sanity. Words of wisdom. Words of hope.
How was the Holocaust Deniers Anonymous cross-burning, FeebThinky?
Did you get enough to eat?
Man-o-man...wasn't this a post about bullying??
"But I do have to say that girls can be horrid, Z."
And HOW! My 2nd grade daughter has been bothered by a sometime-friend-part-time-bully lately; the kind of kid who's fun enough to play w/, but gets real jealous/possessive when other friends come around.
We had already started declining invitations from this child, and not issuing them (which was fine w/ our dau.). But the school bus is a different animal...Our dau is quite a talker, & will not be bested in an argument (God promises me this will serve her well -- one day!). So this child started badgering her on the bus last week, my girl argued back. When she wasn't looking, this child (older & twice as big) PUNCHED my little sprite 4 TIMES! She was horrified, & I was aghast when I heard.
Long & short, the mother of the other child brought her kid over, ostensibly to apologize, then proceeded to try & shame my child into apologizing the HERS!!! (She was then escorted out.)
Not to stop there, this mother arrived @ the school @ 6:30 the next am, to try some CYA garbage -- also trying to blame my child. (what the h@##?)
I know that having a Presidential conference on bullying is ridiculous, & beneath the office. BUT, all I had to do was to email the Guidance Counselor w/ "Bullying on bus 180" in the subject line, & my problem was all but solved. Sometimes, you have to let the system work for you...
"Today, I'd wager a bet that young dads tell their kids today "You had better never start it and you'd better walk away if somebody else does because sticking up for yourself or anything else,"
Sorry, darling Z, but you'd lose your bet - at least @ our house! We had a family 'meeting' that night about fighting/bullying. My husband said (to all 3 of our kids), "If somebody's looking for a fight, do your best to stay out of it. But if somebody's getting picked on, stick up for them...I'd better not hear that one of you STARTS something, but if somebody starts it w/ you, all bets are off. And if you get in trouble for that, tell your principal to handle it with me."
So, do you owe me $5 bucks, or what? An ice cream cone? ;)
Susannah, how'd the system stop that kid and her mom?
I am very aware of bullying and girls, it's in my post :-)
As for the bet? I"M THRILLED! Bravo, to Mr. Susannah!! Raising REAL MEN AND WOMEN, I LIKE THAT!
A la recherche de temps perdus:
All the best to SAM from "Jinni" (of FPM.)
Ne permettez pas les batardes, les etourdies et les egoistes mals vous blesser, Monsieur. Vous etes toujours un gentilhomme.
Bonne chance.
Oh, JINNI,
you stayed always JINNI
THANKS
A+
SAM
Z, saying "the system work for you" didn't mean so much that the 'system' stopped the kid. What I mean is that b/c "bullying" has gotten so much attention, all I had to do was use that word & they responded IMMEDIATELY. (Even if I think BHO is silly for doing his 'bully-thing', I used it to my advantage, see?)
As soon as they got my email, they responded: forwarded it to the Principal, who called our home & spoke w/ my husband. I think, also, b/c I hadn't marched into the school & gotten in the principal's face (not my style), they discerned whose 'story' was more credible.
The other child continued to pursue/badger mine for another day or so - and I had to intervene again. They then put both girls in "assigned" seats on the bus. I wasn't wild about my child having to be 'assigned' (she hadn't been the problem). But she didn't care, and was glad to be free of the issue.
So 1) no matter what situation (public or private school, MD's office, sports, etc.) a parent must be a fierce advocate.
2) When the problem is handled (girls were separated), let it go & don't invite trouble by nit-picking the issue.
Oh, & I passed your kudos on to Mr. Susannah! ;)
Seems to me that bullying didn't hurt Obama too much. Isn't the whole point of addressing the problem is children's self esteem?
It didn't affect Obama's self esteem at all. He still thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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