Monday, March 21, 2011

LIBYA......"A LONG WAR"??

If I were president of a country like Libya and was incensed that America and her allies were going to bomb me, then what I would say is exactly what Qaddafi said Sunday:

TRIPOLI, Libya – Moammar Gadhafi vowed a "long war" as allied forces launched a second night of strikes on Libya on Sunday

And which brand of American (and her allies) would he know that would REALLY get to?   
If this doesn't prove dictators are watching our news and playing us like a fine violin, I don't know WHAT does.  They know what libs are saying about Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, etc etc..."IT'S TOO LONG A WAR! We can't have a LONG WAR!"

Of course, MOST OF US DO NOT WANT OR NEED ANOTHER WAR....GAD!!!   No liberals want it, no conservatives want it.   HERE is the John Bolton opinion of Obama's handling of the situation.   And, here in italics is a bit of the article you need to see:


Hours after the president warned that the United Nations was ready to launch a military strike to defend the Libyan people if their leader Moammar Kadafi did not halt his attacks on civilians and pull back from the rebel stronghold of Benghazi and three other cities, Bolton cast the president as indecisive, inconsistent and uninterested in foreign policy. ("Hours after..." as if to make it sound like Obama GOT RIGHT ON IT, as Bolton, below, suggests would have helped the situation mightily if he HAD...)

I think, better said, it might have been written "Days after the early stage of the crisis, Obama warned that the United Nations was ready to launch a military strike to defend the Libyan people if their leader did not halt his attacks on civilians and pull back from the ....., Bolton.........."

By the way, do presidents do the talking for the U.N.?   "Obama warned that the U.N. was ready...?"  Is that for American liberals to not get the idea that it's WE who were ready?   Don't they get it?  WE are leading this, no matter how much lipstick we put on this pig.  Here's more from the article:


"But the U.S. military, for the time being at the lead of the international campaign, is trying to walk a fine line over the end game of the assault..."    Yes, and Obama must be walking a VERY fine line at the White House with his liberal cohorts screeching "ARE YOU NUTS?   YOU'VE NOT COME OUT AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE, GITMO'S STILL OPEN, Z PAID $4.29 A GALLON FOR GAS TODAY (yes, i did!), AND NOW YOU'RE ALLOWING YOURSELF TO LOOK LIKE YOU'RE STARTING A NEW WAR?   DO YOU WANT TO WIN IN 2012 OR DON'T YOU?"

SO, GEEEZ READERS:   WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON OUR GETTING AT ALL INVOLVED IN LIBYA, AND DO YOU THINK OBAMA WAS LATE ON THIS, AND DO YOU THINK HE'S GOING TO HAVE A HELL OF A TIME WITH HIS LIBERAL BACKERS? and DO YOU THINK GATES IS GOING TO HAVE ANY OTHER COUNTRY STEP UP NOW THAT HE'S SAYING WE NEED TO HAND OVER LEADERSHIP IN A FEW DAYS?

By the way......I had to laugh last night while watching the little bit of Geraldo I can stomach:  He called the actions in Libya "an invasion".......apparently, some on the left think.we're INVADING Libya??   WHAT?   I guess like that's when the whacko libs called our actions in Iraq an 'occupation'.
:-)
Z

81 comments:

beamish said...
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beamish said...
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beamish said...

Well, I've already blogged my thoughts on this pointless war upon Libyan air defenses, but I'll summarize here.

- This was not Obama's decision. It was Hillary Clinton's decision. We no longer have a Commander-in-Cheif. Obama had to come down from a crack binge in Rio to realize Hillary Clinton had escalated this.

- Saddam Hussein CRUSHED the Shia and Kurdish uprisings against him after Desert Storm, on the ground, under Bill Clinton's idiotic "no fly zone."

- Libyan air defenses AREN'T oppressing the Libyan people. Muammar Quadafi IS. Why aren't we targeting him instead?

I understand that Democrats are epic failures at foreign policy, and leftists like Obama and Clinton are all without solitary exception championship-level competitive paint chip eating morons, but to claim this war on Libyan anti-aircraft guns is going to unseat Muammar Quadafi or that the Arab League supports and will participate in the action (when the very opposite is true) is just one more block in the pile of evidence that you should never put a party that can't get its shit together on a small village level in charge of the whole damned United States of America.

beamish said...

It's been a while since I protested a war. I didn't support Bill Clinton's air support of al Qaeda against Serbia either.

If this war's intent was to unseat Quadafi (and had Congress' authorization), I'd support it whole-heartedly.

But it doesn't, so I won't.

Always On Watch said...

Who are the rebels in Libya?

I read this morning that the Arab League, China, and Russia are having second thoughts about what the coalition forces are doing in Libya.

I say "coalition forces" when the truth is that the United States is carrying the burden.

If the Arab League is so gung ho to stop Gaddafi, then why isn't the Arab League taking the lead?

No matter any justification to take out Gaddafi, this mess with Libya will play in the Arab world as a crusade: the West against Islam.

Always On Watch said...

BTW, this military move against Libya is being called "Odyssey Dawn."

The definition of "odyssey" is the antithesis of a short war.

Craig said...

- Saddam Hussein CRUSHED the Shia and Kurdish uprisings against him after Desert Storm, on the ground, under Bill Clinton's idiotic "no fly zone."

On February 15, 1991, President of the United States George H. W. Bush announced on the Voice of America radio saying:
“ "There is another way for the bloodshed to stop: And that is, for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters into their own hands and force Saddam Hussein, the dictator, to step aside and then comply with the United Nations' resolutions and rejoin the family of peace-loving nations."

The turmoil began in Basra on March 1, 1991. The rebellion in the North (Iraqi Kurdistan) erupted on March 4, 1991.

The Kurdish uprising collapsed even more quickly than it had begun. After ousting the peshmerga (Kurdish fighters) from Kirkuk on March 29, 1991, the Iraqi army rolled into Dahuk and Irbil on March 30, Zakho on April 1, and Sulaymaniyah, the last important town held by the rebels, over the next two days. The Kurds were pushed back to Kore, a small valley where a last stand was held. After the successful defense, Saddam ordered to halt his troops south of the valley. This battle is very famous within Kurdish lore and still inspires people to this day.

In the South, the government quelled all but scattered resistance by the end of March. On April 5, 1991, Iraqi Revolutionary Command Council announced "the complete crushing of acts of sedition, sabotage, and rioting in all towns of Iraq."


Source

On April 6, 1991, Operation Provide Comfort began to bring humanitarian relief to the Kurds. A No-Fly Zone was established by the U.S., the U.K. and France north of the 36th parallel.

Operation Southern Watch began on August 27, 1992. Operation Southern Watch was an operation conducted by Joint Task Force Southwest Asia (JTF-SWA) with the mission of monitoring and controlling airspace south of the 32nd Parallel.


Yeah, Clinton orchestrated all that while he was Gov. of Arkansas. beamish, I'm sure you can link me to the blogging lawn care specialist who can substantiate your "history".

Craig said...

As for Libya, I don't know. My gut says it's a mistake, but we'll see. Two things I do know, for sure. John Bolton is the last person to take advise from on foreign policy and Obama will be criticized by the Right, no matter what he does.

Besides, I thought Gadafi was now our buddy. Bush, Bolton & Co. had straightened him out.

Why Gaddafi's Now a Good Guy

The Bush Administration has been quick to stress Libya's comeback as a model that Iran and North Korea should now follow. But it may have been Gaddafi's rogue pursuit of nuclear weapons, more than anything else, that made Rice's announcement Monday possible. As Gaddafi sees it, Libya's nuke program gave him some much-needed leverage in his dealings with Washington. The bargain gave each what they needed: Gaddafi is a pariah no more, and the Bush administration has a success story in the Middle East.

Success!

Anonymous said...

I just feel comforted knowing this mission is being led by the French at the behest of the Arab league. Lets hope Obama stays on the golf course where he can continue to do no harm.

BTW look for Qadaffi to trot out another non existent child of his. Personally I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't know how to spebll his name.

Anonymous said...

Craig I suppose you're grateful Obama supported Mubarak being posted. Don't look now but Egypt is now releasing Al Queda members from prison. So yeah I think Bolton has a better clue.

Anonymous said...

Ousted

beamish said...

Craig,

In your zeal to be the first leftist moron to comment on this thread, you forgot about Clinton's extension of the southern no-fly zone in Iraq northward to the outskirts of Baghdad while Saddam was rolling tanks into the area of the northern no-fly zone, particulartly Irbil to crush a Kurdish uprising on August 31, 1996 and totally taking control of the virtually free Iraqi Kurdistan.

Not to leave your leftist stupidity without incandescent illumination, you then follow up with a link to the left-wing Time magazine, not the Bush administration, calling Muammar Gadhafi a "good guy."

I don't know any lawn care experts, but if you mow grass the same way you recount history, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to warn you not to stick your tongue in the blades. There's really not any ice cream in there.

beamish said...

And let's not forget...

On 29 September 1998, the United States Congress passed the Iraq Liberation Act supporting the efforts of Iraqi opposition groups to remove Saddam Hussein from office. The Act was signed by President Clinton on 31 October 1998. On the same day, Iraq announced it would no longer cooperate with United Nations weapons inspectors.

This after Clinton watched Saddam Hussein slaughter CIA-backed Kurdish guerilla groups in 1996, and before the beginning of the civilian-killing pointless bombing runs on Iraq under Clinton from 1998 to 2001, where more bombs were dropped on non-military targets in Iraq willy-nilly by silly Billy than any during the surgical strikes on military forces in preparation for the ground invasion in 2003 under Bush.

What is it about Democrats that make them so strategically stupid and tactically reckless in military operations of any kind?

Anonymous said...

Obama would call it a job creation initiative Beamish.

Z said...

"John Bolton is the last person to take advise from on foreign policy and Obama will be criticized by the Right, no matter what he does."

Odd, I think he's about the only person, especially counting the Obama administration, to take advice from. He was certainly right in the article. Yes,we might have been out of there by now...however.......

Also, what's with the president not going to Congress for this? Some politicos are pretty upset.
If Obama was a Republican, the NYTimes would be all over this, of course.

Beamish, I don't get why we don't target the bums instead, you have a point. We tried that with Saddam for years, tho, and never got anywhere.

I'm beginning to cringe when I hear "U S Intelligence says that..."

I remember watching the Desert Storm war with Mr. Z who'd spent tons of time in Iraq... it was about the second day, and Schwarzkopf was reporting with glee that we had all Saddam's jets....Mr. Z turns to me and says "they don't have them, they're in bunkers"

Hours later, that news comes over the airwaves....Mr Z knows more than our intel? From visiting there? Okay, he had mtgs on 'that subject' but shouldn't OUR GUYS KNOW THAT? geeeZ

Z said...

Anonymous said...

Obama would call it a job creation initiative Beamish.


:-) Sort of like using the Census as a job initiative. Only the WH was dumb enough to tout better numbers during that period and THEN worry that joblessness increased right after the census was over...that census which had people charging us by the hour and calling me at least four times, and coming to the house twice $$$

Dan said...

I heart Beamish! I'm going to check out his blog right now so that I too may one day, if I practice real hard, between lawn jobs, may wield words as he.

Z said...

Dan, brilliant, isn't he! :-)
I have to admit I think he does his VERY BEST WORK right HERE (heh!)
I LOVE IT!

beamish said...

Obama would call it a job creation initiative

LOL!

Like littering on the highway to leave something for someone else to clean up.

Man, I thought my humor was dark...

beamish said...

Aw Z,

Your blog is much cooler than mine.

I'm better at commenting than blogging is all.

Z said...

I like your blog, too, Beamish, but your spontaneous stuff here makes me bust a gut!
That line about lawn mowers and ice cream.....what a MIND! :-)

Speedy G said...

Where's Congress' Declaration of War and how many Anti-War Progressive Democrats voted FOR going to war? UN Resolutions carry no water in mMY book. The 60 day "clock is ticking"...

They may not have had to get their votes on a 2011 "Budget" on the record, but I sure as Hell want their wars votes on the record before the 2012 campaign moves into high gear.

btw - Perhaps when the duck get's back from the Berkshires he can explain the "End Game" for us.

Anonymous said...

Cheer up Craig, Michael Moore just tweeted and he agrees with you

Anonymous said...

And he wants his Walmart shopping cart back.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

I echo Beamish. If we aren't out to simply kill Kaddafi, then let the UN do what it will and stand on the sidelines.

BZ

Z said...

BZ and Beamish..do we know who would fill the void if we DID kill Qadaffi?

And isn't that exactly what we tried for months and months to do to Saddam?..in secret? rub him out?

Anonymous said...

I'm for getting Gadhafi out of there, preferably in a body bag. But, of course he won't be staying in his tent I'm sure.

To me the most foolish thing Obama did was to tell the world we won't be sending ground troops in. That was done to mollify the left in this country, while informing the enemy what to expect.

This emboldens the enemy. A gift of certainty with which to plan a defense and continue to kill his people with abandon.

A strong CIC never takes anything off the table. If he decides against ground troops, that is not for public consumption. You have to keep the enemy guessing.

If a no fly zone is the end result, it won't stop what's happening on the ground IMO.

If this had been done when the Libyan people had the momentum, this may have been enough, but now, Gadhafi has regained his footing, and has greatly weakened the resistance.

But no worries, Obama's having a nice vacation in Rio!!!

Pris

Craig said...

beamish,

I'm not defending Clinton. I'm pointing out that you completely ignored Daddy Bush egging on an insurrection then ordering our troops to stand down while Saddam slaughtered anyone who took Bush's advice. I also pointed out that G.W. initiated the no-fly zones. Fixed wing aircraft only. Saddam used his helicopter gunships to kill and run off 1.5M Iraqi's.

No word about that from you. Are you dishonest or stupid? Or both?

Okay, Bush didn't call Gaddafi a "good guy". He just normalized relations with Libya after Gaddafi paid off the families of those he murdered. I believe you guys call it appeasement.

Z said...

Pris, it looks to me like Obama's fighting less a war and more a campaign.

The whole thing's disgusting and I wish we never had to go anywhere else but just took our soldiers and placed them effectively at airports and on the borders....sometimes, I feel that's the only thing we have left.

The world's not afraid of us anymore now that Hillary and Obama are in control; the left thinks that's a good thing, I think it's ridiculous. They had awe and hope and admiration for our American forces but our left's talked ourselves so down, looking for ANY SLIGHTEST problem our American soldiers could POSSIBLY do, that we have little to stand on now....
Abu Ghraib was AWFUL, so we have to broadcast it forever.....etc etc...
we're weakened so much, as if nothing like that happened in WWII!? BUt, we were proud of ourselves and we didn't gloat in our transgressions, we handled them and moved on.......
we didn't advertise them and make ourselves look bad like we do now.

I don't know where this leads...but it's nowhere good.

And, if anybody think we're leading in Libya for only a few days now, as Gates has promised, they ought to go to the store and buy their favorite ice cream and a lawn mower,...like Beamish said. :-)


Craig, who the heck cares about Clinton and BUsh anymore; it's time we start solving problems and stop blaming.

Steve Harkonnen said...

As usual, I'll take this to a new level.


Who are the rebels in Libya?

al-Qaida operatives bent on being on the side of the so-called "rebels" we are now defending.

Just my two cents on the distinct possibilities.

Anonymous said...

right Steve and St. Louis is full of KLA refugees (aka Al Queda)

Dan said...

Z said: That line about lawn mowers and ice cream.....what a MIND! :-)

Me too Z. That made me think: with a mind like that you never have to worry about adult truth #2.

Ducky's here said...

Well, we have a poor history of neglecting no fly zones. Some may remember Colon (sic) Powell (the hero of the My Lai cover up) giving permission to Hussein to fly attack helicopters after we encouraged an uprising. Much carnage.

So maybe this time we can give the rebels a chance knowing that the alternative may be a massive bloodbath by this madman.

I'm sure he will be second guessed for the duration.

Z said...

Dan, right!

Ducky, I heard the Berkshires are getting tons of snow, did you go or stay home after all because of that?

Anonymous said...

I don't know which is more ridiculous, France 'running' a war, since they aren't very good at winning one, or Obama making decisions about it. Why the Hell do anything if you're not going after the head honcho? Teach him to sing 'Kumbaya', maybe?

I can only hope Obummo's enjoying the continuation of his 4-year long vacation at our expense.

Silvrlady

Craig said...

Craig, who the heck cares about Clinton and BUsh anymore; it's time we start solving problems and stop blaming.

Your boy, beamish, does.

- Saddam Hussein CRUSHED the Shia and Kurdish uprisings against him after Desert Storm, on the ground, under Bill Clinton's idiotic "no fly zone."

His example that,

I understand that Democrats are epic failures at foreign policy,

He dishonestly leaves out G.H.W.'s abandoning the Iraqi people that he had exhorted to rise up against Saddam.

From Jeff Jacoby (he's no Lefty),

Long-suffering Shi’ites in the south and restive Kurds in the north answered the president’s call. Heartened by the assurance that America was with them, and knowing that 400,000 coalition troops were nearby, they seized the moment to break free of Saddam’s tyranny...But at the decisive moment, Bush denied the Iraqi people the limited American assistance they needed...And so, with US troops looking on, Saddam’s forces proceeded to crush the uprising with nightmarish barbarity.

Don't you think we should learn from history as we "start solving problems"? I mean real history, not beamish's selective history that he cooks up in his brilliantly addled little brain to prop up his "DemocRATS are dumb" meme.

So far, all I've heard from the Right are reactive pot shots. Bolton would have acted unilaterally. Machismo is not a foreign policy. If it were up to him, we'd be in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Bahrain, Egypt, N. Korea and maybe Russia. He's a loud mouth, belligerent fool.

No wonder you like beamish, too.

WomanHonorThyself said...

ah Z..this is hopey changey war that all the Libs will defend!

Anonymous said...

"Bolton would have acted unilaterally. Machismo is not a foreign policy."

Craig, that's not machismo, it's leadership. If we had acted sooner when Gadhafi was more vulnerable, success was more possible.

But, Obama didn't want America to be seen as the leader. He'd rather vote "present" as he has always done.

Furthermore, he's trying to keep the far left in line for political reasons.

If you join the war, it's best to have winning in mind, not a bandaid and hoping for the best.


Pris

Anonymous said...

"All initiation of force is a violation of someone else's rights, whether initiated by an individual or the state, for the benefit of an individual or group of individuals, even if it's supposed to be for the benefit of another individual or group of individuals."


Ron Paul

beamish said...

Don't you think we should learn from history as we "start solving problems"?

Sure thing, Craigie. What lessons from history do you expect Obama to have in him as he tries to set up a no-fly zone over Libya and support an uprising against Gadhafi without deploying troops on the ground to back them?

What makes my point about the stupidity of Democrat Presidents and the leftists that vote for them is precisely the lessons from history. You want to sloganeer about "learning from history." Well pooky, I already have.

Pointing out GHW Bush's failure to take down Saddam Hussein or militarily support the uprisings against him after Desert Storm works as a faux warhawk Al Gore campaign speech... in 1992. Not so much after eight years of Clinton-Gore doing absolutely zip-nada-nothing about Saddam Hussein or his "known ties to terrorism" Al Gore was screaming about in '92, and certainly not ten years after they left office with a track record of 17 terrorist attacks on Americans around the world sponsored by Saddam Hussein's friends in al-Qaeda.

Perhaps VP Al Gore would have been all up Clinton's ass and down the other side to get him to follow through on all that anti-Saddam Hussein election campaign reasoning they stoked up against GHW Bush if Saddam Hussein had, I don't know, refused to put "Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics" stickers on his fuck yous to the UN weapons inspectors, but...

So what should we learn from history?

I've learned Democrats are full of shit.

I can take a swat against GHW Bush for his failures in Iraq during the less than a year and a half that was on his plate. He was very Democrat-like in that regard.

beamish said...

Psst. Ron Paul,

Thanks for going on record to defend the "rights" of the guy that initiated the bombing of civilians on Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.

Don't forget the "rights" of all the terrorists initiating hijackings of civilian aircraft in the 1970s.

Don't forget to take your Donepezil tablets.

Impertinent said...

"The whole thing's disgusting and I wish we never had to go anywhere else but just took our soldiers and placed them effectively at airports and on the borders....sometimes, I feel that's the only thing we have left."


At a million bucks a pop...think about how effective those cruise missles would be against Juarez or on the border.

Think I kid? We need to contract our "Imperial" desires on the world.

We need to reduce our so called "responsibilities" over mutts in the ME struggling to excersise their love of the "religion of peace".

We are facing something greater than 911 as payback by these savages...if we don't mind our own business.

Let the Arabs kill each other and clean up the mess....what good are the billions of weapons we've sold them if they can't use them in their own...errrr..."defense"?

We need to taake care of us and repel and deport muslims and Mexican invaders before we become the premier welfare state...after Great Britian.

Major said...

"Investigators at Der Spiegel unearthed approximately 4,000 photos and videos taken by the soldiers. The accompanying article in the magazine provides shocking details about the depraved, sadistic behavior of the men. In one alleged incident from last May, a mullah captured by the team is forced to kneel down in a ditch, where he is summarily executed."


The OLD Nazi's obviously have forgotten...THEY"RE DEPRAVED INDIFFERENCE TO HUMANITY.

The balls...the "hustpaza" of these frauds and converted murdering Germans to compare us to their genocidal , murdering ways.

Trophies....we've always had them. The Japs did...the germans did...we had then in Nam....it's a centuries old custom.

But...you...who know nothing about war...let alone REVENGE...think war is a soccer game?

Assholes....grow up.

Major said...

"The accompanying article in the magazine provides shocking details about the depraved, sadistic behavior of the men.."

This...I know...works. The mooslim scumbags, savages....understand such actions.They see that Americans are willing to employ the same barbaric ( necessary ) tactics against their muhajadeedejeen (?) as they are against us.

You comfy...HBO, Dancing with the Stars....channel 5, 10, 4...have no fooking clue....what your troops have to face...against these pieces of shit, animal, savage, 7th century , mooslim degenerate, anti christian, anti democratic animals.

You..HAVEN"T a CLUE.

Hey...BTW....I know I'm not liked here. WHY? Because I give you the real shit that you'd rather not believe.

Muslims....need to kneel before the US Constitution...or the Queeran...decide you moronic traitors.

Elmers Brother said...

Has anyone seen the beheaded pictures of our guys with their mutilated private parts shoved down their throats? Its happened dozens of times but you don't see those displayed as an example of the barbarity of our enemy? Why not?

Z said...

Craig, I like Beamish because he's brilliant.
And I admire Bolton tons more than Hillary, that's FOR SURE.
And MACHISMO is all enemies understand, but trust liberals to try to make friends with the gloves on. I know terrorists/extremists are going to be tamed by our kindness...don't you? (what a joke)

Major, you're wearing me out....
And stop with the "old Nazis"..there must be blogs which eat that hubris up, THIS isn't one of them.
You're not disliked here...you just simply wear me out with the constant language and constant hate.
It helps NOTHING.

And calling me and my commenters "assholes" isn't exactly ingratiating.
I know, you don't care.
But, bub, this is my blog, and I DO CARE. THanks.


Elbro (I almost typed your real name just now!!): ya, the lefty media's making a deal out of the American soldiers and the horrid things they've apparently done...but NOBODY goes wild over Daniel Pearl's execution; no name calling, no inferences....that's just a 'flash in the pan, wild eyed extremist'....if five Army guys who are on their fourth deployment and missing their kids and hot as hell and carrying pounds of stuff on their backs and dodging bullets go wild, it's the ARMY, the AMERICAN ARMY, that gets nailed.
@#(*$&@(*#$&(*#& this pisses me off beyond BELIEF>

Elmers Brother said...

I'm not trying to rationalize the soldiers behavior, I'm suggesting as you say that the media is one sided.

Anonymous said...

Today is the FIRST day of SPRING, and it's our Persian first day of the year, we call it NO-ROOZ which means NEW DAY; so HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR ALL.

That's why I'm so late on this colomn;

Indeed, if Obama did not hesitate and had not wasted one month, Gaddafi was an old history.

You know, in a revolution, the best elements are killed the first days.

8000 of the Most courageuos were killed before the first Mirages and Raffales of the French Airforce fly over BENGHAZI.

I don't know your medias temprature, but EU news was showing that the people were very upset because of the international inaction.

USA is the only country that has the ANTI-RADAR Missiles, without the first step of US ARMY, to apply the noflight zone is very risky.

So, if a Butcher like Gaddafi dares to talk about a long term war, because he knows very well the soft power who is governing the SUPER ARMY OF THE WORLD.

SAM

beamish said...

do we know who would fill the void if we DID kill Qadaffi?

I've thought long and hard about this, and the best answer I can come up with is "I don't care." Killing Gadhafi NOW buys us a seat at the table of the people most happy about it.

Anyone who comes to power in a post-Gadhafi Libya is going to be a lot easier to knock down if need be, and also, a lot more amenable to US backing to stay there.

This is all speculative of course, as Obama has no intention of killing Gadhafi or removing him from power, and by the time the 2012 elections replace Obama with really anybody at this point, Libya will be too duffed up and lost for any coherent post-Gadhafi policy as ALL of his opposition will be DEAD by then.

beamish said...

Major,

What exactly are you compensating for? Do you need the cheat codes for Call of Duty 3?

beamish said...

Impy,

If you leave sticky sugary things and garbage piled everywhere in your home, in short order flies, roaches, rodents, and parasites become attracted to it.

Swat, stomp, bomb, spray, and trap all you want, as many as you can, but the pests will keep coming for the sticky sugary things and garbage.

To complete my analogy....

The welfare system could not be abused by illegal immigrants if there was no welfare system.

Not many clean freaks ever have to spray for bugs.

Z said...

Elbro, I'm trying to rationalize their behavior! Didn't think you were....I just we'd cut OUR GUYS the same slack we cut murdering cutthroats and I know you feel the same :-)

Ron Paul; I don't dislike everything he says buy that phrase is completely disingenuous....'Gee, we hate to violate a lying, murdering dictator who brought down our plane's RIGHTS" man. We need him dead so WE don't get dead.

SAM; Our media thinks Obama did everything just right because it's mostly leftwing media who doesn't think but just LOVES OBAMA...Obama can DO no wrong in the eyes of Democrats.
The Europeans have no right to insult US for not going in sooner because they will be insulting us the minute any slightest thing goes wrong with our actions there...the Americans are "ALWAYS WRONG" to the European press and so why should we pay much attention to what they say? We should also get OUT of the United Nations, which is ALWAYS against us. ...as they take our $$$

Most of us rightwing people agree with Bolton, your friend, and know Obama should have helped get Gaddafi RIGHT away when this first happened.
I'm a little sick and tired of hearing Arabs blame America when we finally DO help them, however, because, TRUST ME, WE will be blamed soon for whatever happens.
They don't have the respect or fear they had of us before, now that Bush is gone....and the Arabs are playing into the hands of our leftwingers, which is why I wrote this post. Gaddafi said "This will be a LONG WAR" because HE KNOWS WELL that our left has not the stomach for ANY war and Obama must try to make this look like a very short war or he might suffer in the polls........when Gaddafi says LONG WAR, the leftwing media goes NUTS, they get angry, they will blame Obama, SO, this was a message from Gaddafi to Obama "get out soon, or YOU will be out of your government"...and lefties are weak and comply to murdering dictators.
I'm gratified YOU AGREE WITH BOLTON as you are much more aware and approving of all of his stances in the past than most American power-resenting Americans...like Craig.

Beamish, you said:
Major,

What exactly are you compensating for? Do you need the cheat codes for Call of Duty 3?"

I'll just bet that is ONE FUNNY LINE...right? ????!!

Anonymous said...

Z;

We can talk about EU WORLD, American world, Left medias, Right media,

BUT, we can not talk about ARAB MEDIA.

Is there any democratic ARAB or MUSLIM country?

The News and the journalism is directional on all these countries.

Look, the only Libian free reporter who had uploaded the most pictures and films from the First days of the Libian Uprising from the VERY dangerous places and balltes fields was shooted by an sniper last night, he was in BENGHAZI.

And Benghazi is in the hands of the Anti-Ghadaffies.

All the Arab FOLKS are happy, the ARAB LEADERS were forced to follow their folks and support passively the international efforts.

Germany and India joined China and Russia and lost their chance to have a permanent seat in the UNSC.

In France, everybody aproves, Mary Lopin, the extrem Right Fascist do not aprove.

American Missiles have hitted two times Kaddaffies PALACE, and the People start to like USA.

No, this time is a good time, it is different from IRAQ.

IRAQ, was a Monumantal error, and you see the result, it is offered in a golden plate to the Mullahs.

But Libya is far from IRAN.

About the EGYPT, the people have beated Al-Bradeii(the ex IAEA director, because he is proIranian, Pro-OBAMA and ANTI BUSH.

SAM

beamish said...

Z,

I just thought a video game would be more helpful to Major than pushing so many buttons on a keyboard to obsess about killing people.

FrogBurger said...

Hi Sam,

Your spelling of Marie Le Pen cracked me up. You make her look nice with that spelling.

I'm divided on this intervention. The fact Congress was skipped irks me.

We could have arrested Qadafi when he came to NYC a few years ago as well for the crimes he committed.

Z said...

Isn't it a darned shame that someone who speaks about the rich French culture staying as it is, and trying to stop people from trying hard to bring another culture to France, and who tries to stop the paying of Frenchman's money to people who come to live off of them and who burn buildings and pray in the streets, which is illegal, is considered FASCIST?

FrogBurger said...

Z, she may be fascist indeed. I haven't been following the National Front evolution since I left.

It just fills a void b/c the regular "conservative" party like Sarkozy's don't have the balls to say it as it is.

A bit like our Republicans here.

It's sad to see our parties being afraid of the left constant labeling when you don't agree with them,

FrogBurger said...

Z, don't forget Le Pen and many of his goons described the Holocaust as a "detail" and some deny it.

Mark said...

Obama is attempting to position himself on the right to appeal to independent voters in preparation for the presidential election of 2012.

Obviously, he doesn't think Liberals alone will be enough to propel him into a second term.

He has one, and only one objective: Continue to be President. He thinks only of himself. Libyans be damned.

Mark said...

Liberals are strangely quiet about Obama's decision to enter this conflict. The interesting thing is, That are a lot less reasons for us to be in Libya than there was for us to be in Iraq. There is a great chart here.

Impertinent said...

Beamish:

"The welfare system could not be abused by illegal immigrants if there was no welfare system."

You make a valid point. However if there's going to be welfare ( and there will be ) I'd just say it's only available to legal American citizens, not the runts coming across the border for that reason only.

Alas...I stand corrected.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Very foolish for us ever to have assumed the role World's Police Force.

Let the stupid bastards kill each other off.

Anonymous said...

Just out of idle curiosity does anyone know the precise date that Beamish took over the directorship of this blog?

Is Z aware that her powers have been usurped? Or was she happily complicit in this change of dominating influence.

beamish said...

Just out of idle curiosity does anyone know the precise date that Beamish took over the directorship of this blog?

April 30, 1945

Is Z aware that her powers have been usurped? Or was she happily complicit in this change of dominating influence.

Shhhhhh! Don't tell her. She'll think you're an idiot. ;)

Z said...

Beamish ALWAYS shows respect to me, has NEVER in all these years said the least cruel or demeaning thing to me and backs off the second I suggest he's gone too far for geeeeZ.
And you have the nerve to insinuate what you do today? :-)

Physician, Heal Thyself.

I deleted a lot of comment here because I don't like to hurt but sometimes people just need it for some reason. Why IS that?

THanks, Beamish.

Anonymous said...

Thank you annonymous for the correction about Female Le Pen.

Z,
Marie Lepen et Front National are in love and in BED with the Islamism, they are Invité D'Honnour de tous les CEREMONY de L'ambassade D'Iran, Ils sont extremement ANTI-BUSH, because BUSH said Iran is the Banker of the Terrorism.

They are in BED with JIA (Algerian Islamic Jihad.

The Fascism Hitlerian and Fascism Islamic join each other.

She is Anti-ARAB, yes she is anti small people, but shie is the best friend of all the ARAB POLITICS.

She is a DIRT.

Don't mix the conservatism and EXTREM RIGHT who cherish Hitler.

SAM

Z said...

Imp, thanks for your civil and mature response to Beamish because he corrected you.
I really appreciate that...

Anonymous said...

Now Sarkozy will be in charge, & we know the great war-winning record of the French. Well, they won one, the Fr. Revolution----against themselves. But maybe Sarkozy will try to kill Gaddafi, since Dodo doesn't want to do it. Dammit, don't go to war if you don't intend to win!

If we had been subjected to this bunch of arschlochen during WW II we'd all be eating sauerkraut with chopsticks.

Silvrlady

Z said...

SAM, you are suggesting that Marie Le Pen welcome Islam to France? NOw I think you're delusional.

I would very much like proof of that.

Z said...

Free Thinker, by the way, if you think insulting me AGAIN in this way is getting you anywhere, you're so sorely, sadly mistaken.
I'll be ignoring you totally and probably deleting everything in the future.
You've given me no recourse.
Sorry,...I don't have too many rules around here but EVERY other commenter adheres and I need to protect them, myself and my blog now.

Anonymous said...

Z;

Front National is against the Maghrebain workers, but Front National Admires Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs for their Anti Jews, anti WEST and Anti-American positions.

in all the IRI CELEBRATIONS in PARIS, J.M. LEPEN and his daughter are in the first ROWS.

And Front National has IRI as Sponsor and they never deny it.

Well, we kbow that Front National sells himself to whom who pays, But Front National Gains his 90 persent of his income from the Mullahs payement.

French Extrem right is always invited to IRAN by Ahmadinejad to attend the yearly anti-jews meeting.

SAM

Anonymous said...

QUESTION: What possible hope could there be for the survival of sanity in an insane world?

ANSWER: None!

Major said...

"I don't have too many rules around here but EVERY other commenter adheres and I need to protect them, myself and my blog now."


I promise...I too will tone it down. My anger, my disgust with my country does get the best of me.

And I do appreciate the opportunity and the privilege of venting my enormous spleen here too.

Thank you for tolerating me Ms. Z.

Z said...

Major, I appreciate that very much.
Thanks.

FrogBurger said...

Oops -- it's Marine Le Pen.

Sam is indirectly right in a way. Le Pen and the FN (Front National) needs culprits to maintain market shares.

The same way the Dems need welfare and food stamps.

FrogBurger said...

Sam, let's not forget that the French Communist Party's demise is also due b/c its former electorate votes National Front.

Atlanta Roofing said...

We must realize that our country supports a very costly empire around the world. This empire has very little to do with any real security of American people. In fact, its corrosive effect is killing our republic. You can see evidence all around if you care to see it. Empire starts torture abroad and brings it back home. Empire undermines democracie¬s abroad and it eventually uses the same techniques to undermines the democracy at home. Most Americans are utterly unaware of these mortal dangers.

beamish said...

Silverlady,

As much as enjoy a good bashing of French military history, I would point out in fairness that EVERY time France has deployed militarily into North Africa, they've done nothing but whip all manner of ass, on an extreme level of driven, merciless purpose. You might say kicking ass in North Africa is the only thing France military campaigns have proven particularly skilled at. If the United States won't take the lead on Libya, I can think of no better substitute, save that France has never demonstrated the restraint about possible civilian casualties that we tend to do.

I just hope that Sarkozy is willing to do what needs to be done to remove Gadhafi.

beamish said...

***notice - reposted because Blogger ate it***

Z,

I appreciate the principled fairness by which you direct your blog. Unlike the single "anonymous" obsessed twit FreeThinke, I will not overstay my welcome here by even one second.

Ask me to leave, and I will depart.

But while I am welcome here, I will continue to call out and refuse to tolerate or entertain any unhinged and delusional anti-Semitic and racist comments and commenters when encountered, such as your most unwelcomed perennial pest, because such things need to be dealt with, forcefully, for the sake of civil decorum and also for the Jewish and non-white posters who also enjoy this blog.

While I am welcome here, I will continue to call out and refuse to tolerate or entertain horrid and infantile "kill all the Muslims" rhetoric when encountered - not only is my younger sister a Muslim AND that there are Muslim posters here - also because such things need to be dealt with, forcefully, for the sake of civil decorum and the enjoyment of this blog.

While I am welcome here, I will continue to call out and refuse to entertain patently offensive and mendacious Westboro-style micharacterizations of Biblical theology attempting to masquerade as "true" Christian doctrine when encountered, because such things need to be dealt with, forcefully, for the enjoyment and civil decorum promoted by this blog.

While I am welcome here, I will continue to call out and refuse to tolerate or entertain historical revisionism, such as Holocaust denial, denials of the Armenian genocide, whitewashing and . or denials of designated terrorist groups and their role in slaughtering Kurds in Iraq, or any other sort of nonsense in that mode or genre, because such things need to be dealt with, forcefully, for the sake of civil decorum and enjoyment of this blog.

I will continue to call out and refuse to tolerate or entertain the smears and mendacious lies proffered by leftists and their complicit and / or unwitting cryptoleftist comrades when encountered, because such things need to be dealt with, forcefully, for the sake of civil decorum and the enjoyment of this blog.

I will continue to act upon all those situations and under those conditions and circumstances listed above until asked to leave.

And, should I be asked to leave, by your unsoiled and pristine reputation Z, I know that I will honestly deserve the invitation to depart, and I will perform no pathetic months-long histrionic "death scene" of self-indulging pseudo-martyrdom as is currently ongoing with your most unwelcomed immature and obsessed pest "FreeThinke."

If I am asked to go, I will simply do so.

Thank you for the opportunity to express the blatantly obvious.

beamish said...

Frogburger,

Exactly. If Le Pen is "far right" by any coherent application of the term, then so was Mao Tse Tung.

beamish said...

Atlanta Roofing,

What "democracies" abroad has America undermined?

Granted, Saddam Hussein usually got more votes than the other choice - the firing squad - but is that really "democracy?"