Thursday, July 7, 2011

Are WE missing something here?

So, let me get this straight now;  However you feel about the Casey Anthony verdicts, you can actually have a daughter 'accidentally drown' in your pool, as the defense argued, and only do 3 years in prison for.....lying?   The child DIED, the defense suggests someone in the family knew that (it's clearly not Mrs Anthony, unless she's an amazing actress), and nobody reported her death.
People don't have to report it when a child DIES?  

An ex-friend of Casey's and others ares now trying to introduce a bill which would at least make it a felony to not report and get help for a child missing beyond a time the bills have yet to determine (some say 10 days, others say 15 days).
But the defense team says this child drowned and ...that's it?     Have we come to the point where families need to be threatened with indictment for not reporting when their child's missing??  or DEAD?
z

40 comments:

Thersites said...

A mother's "right" to choose a late term abortion for zygotes up to the age of 5 years, shall not be infringed...

Thersites said...

Call it "progressive". ;)

Always On Watch said...

People don't have to report it when a child DIES?

Apparently not.

Years ago, here in the DC suburbs, there was a child's accidental death. The parents were afraid that their other son would be accused -- he had some kind of substance problem, I think. So, they buried the dead son in the back yard.

No charges filed! The head wound on the body was consistent with an accidental fall. Apparently, it's not illegal to bury someone in the back yard -- or such was the case at the time.

The only reason the dead son was ever reported missing was that the school saw that he was no longer in attendance.

BTW, the family involved in the above incident was a fairly wealthy one.

Z said...

Thersites, good point. This actually does speak, in a way, to abortion, doesn't it.

AOW....I'm trying to picture if one of my siblings or I went missing and nobody in our neighborhood, friends or family notice....impossible.

Your story repulses me...I think it might be illegal to bury human bodies in some state backyards, it would be interesting to know that (who'd have thought we'd even be curious?!), but what kind of PEOPLE?
Then you have Mrs. Anthony who tried to lie for her daughter after her little granddaughter was killed. wow.

I just heard this morning that the people who worked so hard to find Cayley might sue for all the time and services they rendered while at least one Anthony knew Cayley was in the bushes.
He said he'd never ever (repeated ever on TV) seen a family more intent on protecting their child than grieving their lost one. And that George walked in and demanded angrily something like "Who the hell is the jerk I have to talk to now?" ...the 'jerk' he knew was in charge of teems of people searching for the little girl.

beamish said...

Have we come to the point where families need to be threatened with indictment for not reporting when their child's missing?? or DEAD?

We're talking about a state where families helplessly watch the carrying out of a court order that their daughter's feeding tube be removed and the daughter given painkillers "just in case" her damaged brain can sense the pain of starving to death over 14 days.

Casey Anthony ran afoul of Florida by not televising Caylee Anthony's final moments of agony.

Still, as messed up as Florida is, it's no Massachussetts, where a woman can "accidentally" discharge a PUMP-ACTION SHOTGUN four times, killing her brother with one blast and taking a hostage and stealing a car, and her crimes be indulged long enough for her to become a suspect in a mail bombing to her employer then moving to Alabama to become a college professor that winds up going on a shooting spree in a department staff meeting.

heidianne jackson said...

i remember that case, aow - and the reminder of it now is just as disturbing as when it ocurred all those years ago.

as for the travesty of justice for caylee, i blame the prosecutors. it was a heavily circumstantial case and they left holes big enough to drive a mac truck through. unfortunately, i think, the defense's responses to THOSE things (not so much the accidental drowning notion floated) is what gave the jury reasonable doubt.

seriously - how could the prosecution think that they make the statement that casey had searched 84 times for how to make chloroform on a computer that not only did others have access to, but that others were using. the prosecutor should have KNOWN ahead of time the grandmother was going to say she had made SOME of those searches. so who made the rest?

it's all very creepy. i can't imagine my mother not noticing AND reporting any of my children being missing. the neighbors would have known, too. but nowadays, do people even really know their neighbors?

Mustang said...

The jury didn’t find this woman innocent. They found her “not guilty.” The state charged Casey with Murder and lesser-included offenses; with all its resources, the state has an obligation to prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that (a) someone was murdered, (b) the cause of death was ____ (fill in the blank), and that (c) some named person committed the murder (or other heinous offense).

In the jury’s opinion, the state failed to prove its allegations, and so under our system, Casey Anthony goes free. I personally think that George Anthony was complicit in Caylee’s death and that he and Casey conspired to cover it up.

It is already a felony to “hide” an accidental death, but the geniuses in the Orange County District Attorney’s office failed to charge her with that felony because they wanted a murder-one conviction.

Dopes.

Pris said...

The accidental drowning has been debunked by Casey Anthony herself when in jail, on video, she told her mother Caylee was kidnapped.

Why do people insist on this drowning story? Because it's convenient? Why?

Of course after a big case there are always those who want another law passed. I think if someone killed her child, she'd take the chance of this proposed punishment for not reporting her missing.

Casey got off, didn't she!

How many times have we heard that parents have reported their child missing, only to be told, the kid had a pattern of being a runaway?

So, everytime their child takes off if they don't report it, the parents are in trouble with the law, after the law wouldn't help them in the first place?

This law would not prevent murder.

Z said...

Mustang, how can an ex homicide cop be that clumsy?
And, I can't imagine why the wife of an ex cop would think calling 911 is where to report a missing granddaughter one thinks has been missing for 30 days. I'd have called the police station where my husband had worked or one of his colleagues; seemed very weird for Mrs Anthony to call 911 as if she was having a heart attack or being burgled...
SUDDENLY,she was frantic!?

If it's a felony to hide an accidental death, could they get Casey back into court?
I know there's no double jeopardy but if it's a new charge?

beamish said...

"So it is the defense's argument that Casey Anthony looked her mother who allegedly left the pool ladder down for Caylee to climb in the pool and drown in the face and told her the child had been kidnapped? May we play back the video of Casey looking into the face of the mother who allegedly caused this tragedy with her own daughter to occur by her neglect and claiming the child was kidnapped?"

The prosecution didn't even try to win this case.

Sue said...

Z. I watched the coverage ALL WEEKEND LONG. There is not a shadow of a doubt in MY mind that Casey Anthony got away with the murder of her beautiful child. The reason that Cindy was "suddenly frantic" is that Casey AT LAST told her the story that the nanny had kidnapped Caylee. For the past 31 days Casey had been plausibly lying to her mother...Got a new job as an event coordinator (flexible hours). Going to Tampa for a seminar, then on to Busch Gardens. Taking Zanny the nanny. Oh, Zanny was involved in an automobile accident. Can't leave her alone in the hospital. Going to Jacksonville with Jeff Hopkins (the imaginary rich boyfriend who has a child the same age as Caylee). Oh, Jeff's mother just decided to re-marry. Going to stay for that. And on. And on. And on. UNTIL George and Cindy receive a notice from a tow yard that Casey's car had been towed. They found the car with "the smell", and then found Casey. Cindy demanded to see Caylee. That is when she was "asleep" at Zanny's house. Can't wake her up. Brother Lee gets into the picture saying the cops that Grandma was threatening to call would go get Caylee themselves. Finally, TRAPPED into the "truth", she told them that Zanny had forcibly taken Caylee and that she (Casey) had been doing her own investigation. After the police finally DID become involved, her lies were so sustained that she even led the police right into Universal Studios, right down a hallway until it ended, turned around, stuck her hands in her back pocket and admitted she hadn't worked there in years! At least this is what Jeff Ashton reported. I became convinced beyond ANY doubt (reasonable or otherwise) when he so chillingly explained the THREE pieces of duct tape they found on Caylee's skull and how they couldn't have been placed there after the death. I believe the jury were young morons. Sorry. What did juries do BEFORE DNA testing? They used COMMON SENSE! I have been on a jury that let a man go because we didn't think the state proved the robbery. This was wayyyy different. OK, I am finished now. I am just glad there is a highter judgement. And I am sorry I feel that way about the jury, but I can't help it. Praying for forgiveness for it...

Silverfiddle said...

Alan Dershowitz had the best explanation of this verdict. The evidence of how and when she died was just not there. Without a how and why, you can't pin it on a who, especially if you can't even establish is was a wrongful death as opposed to a horrible unfortunate accident.

Legal brains are also saying the DA did not bring the right charges, so they ended up boxing themselves in, and a mom who murdered her beautiful daughter skips off scot free.

Mark said...

I think most rational people can't conceive a scenario whereby nobody reports a missing child.

Heck, I had a child go missing a couple of times when they were little, and we were calling the police after 10 minutes.

Leticia said...

Children and the unborn are becoming non-people and it seems that no one cares that they are, in fact, human beings and they deserve life and justice. Just like any adult.

Little Caylee got neither. Her mother partied and got a tattoo while her child was "missing."

Welcome to the world of liberalism.

Impertinent said...

" The evidence of how and when she died was just not there.."

Then how about the lesser charges that didn't involve the death penalty? I actually heard one brain damaged putz say she was a "good mother"? WTF?

She was guilty of aggravated child abuse..Period. They in their brain damaged, sun stroked delusional "minds"...didn't even consider that?

Give me a break trying to excuse these misfits of having the brains to sit on a jury.

Geraldo is right.....she better not show her face in Orlando.

Bob said...

I think Sue got it right.

In previous posts I have taken the position that the prosecution offered no evidence, other than circumstantial, that Casey murdered her child.

The jury, however, could have taken another route to come to something like a manslaughter verdict that recognized the facts of Casey's crime.

Here is a link to a blog by a statistician who reminds us that NOTHING is 100% certain, and points out that there is a difference between "a reasonable doubt" and 100% certainty.

So, even though no physical evidence was presented that could be tied to Casey, the circumstances of the case demand that somebody pay for the death of a a defenseless child.

I believe the prosecution was inept, and the defense was able to confuse the jury. Me, too.

As to the requirements (or lack, thereof) in Florida for parents to report when children become missing, we have seen that Florida can be a real circus in the legal world. Remember the 2000 Presidential elections?

Z said...

Leticia...'bella vita', imagine? On your shoulder, in BIG letters, tattoo'd while your daughter's supposedly missing and you don't know supposedly where she is?
I'd have been so distraught I couldn't see straight.

I've seen survivors of people who have been killed the day before or two days before interviewed on TV and I think "How can they DO THAT? HOw do you speak on TV about a loved one's death without falling apart?"

Strange.

Z said...

I simply can't believe Casey is innocent of the death of her daughter, either.

Sue, thanks for so much info...


all of you have good input; thanks.

Is this a lack in our judicial system? That just because the wrong charges were brought, she's free? Maybe we need a 'blanket cause' put in the law..' Anybody who dies must be charged with all these proscribed counts'?

SO, CAN she be tried on a count NOT charged to her in this past trial?

Impertinent said...

Anthony is such a slut that she was offered a part in a porn flick. She was told she could help write the script and pick her "partners"!

They rescinded the offer cause they knew even she wasn't worth the price of public outrage or a condum.

But....with her party girl persona and personality...along with her penchant for tramp stamps ( Bella Via ) can I be or anyone be blamed for seeing her as a....fill in the blanks.

Impertinent said...

"SO, CAN she be tried on a count NOT charged to her in this past trial?"


Why not? Reckless endangerment sounds appropriate enough to me. Tell me she wasn't a danger to that child?

Sue said...

I know this is annoying, but this is JUST how I felt when I heard the verdict. OUTRAGED at the jury!!! I know there are people who think they got it right. I just happen to not be one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdM9FoMQAx8

And no, Z, I do not believe they can re-visit the case in any way other than persons bringing civil suits against her...I PRAY I am wrong.

beamish said...

SO, CAN she be tried on a count NOT charged to her in this past trial?

Not while the writ of habeas corpus and protections from double jeopardy and ex post facto law remains intact. The prosecution is bound to specify precise charges and present evidence to establish their claim. There was only one body, Caylee's. It would be illegal to present multiple murder charges (distinguished into "kinds and degrees of murder" by law) for just one death.

Ironically, Casey Anthony may be able to sue her own mother in a "wrongful death" civil suit while fending off defamation of character and criminal harrassment charges from her parents and brother. The piles of money to come from the interviews, books, movies, and action figures will be slung around to pay off each other, and when the dust settles, they'll all have the "Betta Vida."

That family's gotta have a great time at Christmas dinner.

Silverfiddle said...

Bob: I say this in all charity, especially since you are a fellow William Briggs fan.

How would you like to be convicted although there was no physical evidence? That is how people are wrongly convicted. Our judicial system was set up so that "it is better for 10 guilty defendants to go free than for one innocent defendant to be wrongly convicted."

It's based upon Abraham negotiating with God over the destruction of Sodom.

We must have proof to convict someone.

Your suggestion that the Jury "could have taken another route to come to something like a manslaughter verdict" is good-hearted but impossible. Manslaughter was not on the menu.

I share everyone's outrage that a woman (I cannot use the term mother) murdered her child and got away with it, but our judicial system is biased towards protecting the falsely accused.

I strongly suggest everyone read today's Alan Dershowitz column,. It won't make you feel better, but you will come away with an intellectual understanding of why this happened:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303544604576429783247016492.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Impertinent said...

"The piles of money"

Hopefully she makes tons of bucks...and has to spend every cent on doctors for a life threatening, incurable disease.

Sorry...but that's Justice.

Mommy parties, while this little girl will never see schoolmates, never graduate from any grade....never be in a school play....never see her high school prom....never have a life long love....never to be married....never to be a Mom....never to raise her own children.

But that the point isn't it....?

Casey Anthony never wanted to be a grandmother....let alone a mom.

Party on.

beamish said...

The first human city was said to be built upon the blood and bones of the first murder victim, by his murderer.

Is it really so shocking that we have come to hear an objective history of deceit and dishonesty become a criminal defense against indictment and conviction?

Casey Anthony allegedly lived in an imaginary world disconnected from reality yet was competent to stand trial? Her convenient lapses into insanity are just a coping mechanism, see? Casey Anthony isn't even responsible for not being responsible.

"With the right diet of selective uptake inhibitors closely monitored by government-licensed phamaceutical distributors, the confusion over the Casey Anthony verdict will pass. Ask your doctor if you need Dystopia."

Z said...

Beamish, you said "Casey Anthony allegedly lived in an imaginary world disconnected from reality yet was competent to stand trial? Her convenient lapses into insanity are just a coping mechanism, see? Casey Anthony isn't even responsible for not being responsible."

You been talking to Geraldo? He actually said that last night.


Imp; "Party on" is exactly what Casey will do, but it appears she may have to do it in SIBERIA or NEPAL...

SF..thanks, I need to take the time to read that and I will.

Lisa said...

I hate that there are children in this world that are at the mercy of some very sick people.
What do we expect from a society that discourages the nuclear family and promotes promiscuity making it acceptable and easy.
When you subsidies something you get more of it.
I'll go with Leticia on this one. Thanks Libs.

Z said...

Lisa,
and we allow the influences on Americans through TV and Film by leftwingers; one gets the feeling everybody's gay through film and TV, unwed pregnancy is 'just another adorable choice', kids sass their folks with horrid language and rolling eyes and worse, church and church people are SO detestable, etc. etc. etc.

We're allowing it...
and then we wonder at people like Casey Anthony.

Am I suggesting this is all the fault of TV and FILM? No. Of course not, but there's just so much gratuitous sex and bad language and acceptance, and even championing, of really unhealthy behavior these days......and then you'll have someone ask "Who's to say what's moral?" as if moral has no meaning anymore at all.

Always On Watch said...

Heidianne,
You remember that case too. Do you recall the names involved?

Lisa said...

AOW-Amy Bishop

Joe said...

No! We're NOT missing something here. I believe Casey Anthony killed (not murdered...that's a legal term) her daughter.

But you can't send someone to jail or execute them because "it makes common sense!"

You have to prove they are guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt.

Not your doubt, not my doubt, the jury's doubt!

In this case the prosecution knew Casey had killed her daughter, but they failed to prove it to a jury in a court of law.

We cannot have it both ways. Either we convict people by some form of popular vote, or we submit to the justice system, imperfect as it is.

Casey Anthony probably killed her daughter (I think she did). But she is NOT guilty.

The jury said so, and that ends it.

She will pay, though. Don't worry about that.

Z said...

Joe, you make excellent sense.
The circumstantials and the way Casey acted with a daughter "Missing", ..well, we could go on and ON and on with 'evidence' that makes her look guilty.
But, they didn't prove it.
Astonishing, but true. Perhaps there was no way to prove it at all.

As someone on FOX said, "what a message to mothers tired of a child and wanting to party....murder the baby and make sure the remains are so hard to find that they've decomposed enough by then so badly nobody can prove what happened or be proven guilty."

wow.

Pris said...

Remember Scott Peterson? He's in prison for killing his wife.

What evidence did they have that he killed his wife? It was all cicumstantial.

Yes, he was a creep. Yes, he was a liar. Yes, her body washed up on that shore, not far from where he went fishing.

But, what if his attorney said the "real" killer had plenty of time to dump her body in the water at that location?
That location was all over the news from the beginning.

What if his attorney said Peterson was a liar, a womanizer, but that doesn't make him a killer.

What if he threw anything and everything against the wall hoping something would stick?

I'm not saying Peterson didn't kill his wife, I'm saying if his attorney was clever enough, perhaps he could have won the case.

Or is it easier to find a husband guilty with no physical evidence, than it is a mother.

I think the circumstantial evidence in the Anthony case was stronger than the Peterson case.

The other difference is the attorneys and the juries.

And then, there was the Robert Blake case...............Not Guilty! Uhhh yeah, sure.

Z said...

Pris, I think you're right about the circumstantial evidence being stronger in the Anthony case. Let us face it, folks: THERE IS ALMOST NO OTHER IMAGINABLE SCENARIO THAN CASEY KILLED HER DAUGHTER. There just isn't.
Okay, the legalities somehow didn't pave the way toward a conviction, but...my GOD.

Laci disappeared.....nothing in Scott's car, nothing anywhere...I just Googled it and there is no evidence ... he had had many affairs and even called Amber Frey saying he was in Paris and very happy when he was actually at Laci's candlelight vigil service...but he's convicted because people said that he wasn't thrilled about the baby coming, he'd had affairs...etc..?

Casey:
Chloroform smell in her car

Dead body smell in her car

partying the day after a daughter's missing

googling 'breaking neck' and 'chloroform'

....well, we don't need that list again; we all know

MK said...

When it's alright to kill off your unborn because it's a rights thing, i guess reporting a dead/missing child is really just up to the individuals.

It's a sad world we've created for ourselves. I guess when one banishes God, this is what we get in return.

Z said...

MK ..."when one banishes God, this is what we get in return."
well said...

But then you'll get someone saying "who's god?" A mindset which is, in and of itself, a big problem.

When Americans knew "WHICH GOD", things were a lot better.
Gee, 99.9% less unwed mothers.
In tact families
kindness and giving
dignity of the human body
morality of all kinds...etc etc.
And, of course, any faith can have 'their god', I just wish they'd allow our country to celebrate the God our founding fathers honored SO much.... (and Australians and Germans, etc)

Was it fear of GOd, one's parents, one's conscience, that kept people behaving in more healthy ways? Ya, the Scripture's full of the fear of God, but 'fear' has become a dirty word, some parents don't deserve much respect anymore, and now conscience is old fashioned..

and "FEAR", actually, is translated as "AWE"
QUOTE: "In the Gospels and Acts, the Greek phobos [fovbo"], the common word for fear, is occasionally translated "awe, " or "filled with awe."

Would that we could get that awe back. What a different world we'd be in.

Bob said...

Silverfiddle said "
Your suggestion that the Jury "could have taken another route to come to something like a manslaughter verdict" is good-hearted but impossible. Manslaughter was not on the menu.


I based my statement on the hours and hours of cable tv news (Fox) leading up to the verdict. I well remember a graphic that looked something like the following:

First Degree Murder
Second Degree Murder
Manslaughter
Jaywalking

In other words there was a list of verdicts the jury could return. But, if I am wrong, I am wrong.

Z said...

Bob, considering the verdict, I'm surprised they DIDN'T choose JAYWALKING!!!

nicrap said...

Stabat mater dolorosa - not anymore?

Z said...

nicrap...that's so gorgeous.