We should know tomorrow. What's your prognosis?
z
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53 comments:
They strike down the mandate which effectively kills the bill.
Health care stocks rally except for insurers.
The rest of the bill is dismantled by congress and health insurance costs rise, many are left uninsured until we move to single payer or non profit insurers.
Ducky, It's easy to cover poor folks for health care without ripping the economy apart. One way is to issue them vouchers for HMO care. It would be a lot better than decreasing the quality of care for the entire nation, which is the long term effect of Obamacare.
Ripping the economy apart?
Stop listening to rabies radio, it does no such thing.
Doctors thought it was be a terrible blow to their ability to treat their patients....
even Pharma thought it was a bad idea until Obama signed on with limiting better-priced drugs from Canada and they flipped. I so well remember thinking "HUH? What's the big change?" Now we've been told it was an Obama deal. "do what I tell you, and..."
Believe it or not, Ducky, the healthcare of those who CAN AFFORD TO PAY is equally important as the health care of those who won't or can't.
It's COSTS which need to be fixed .
Ripping the economy apart?
Stop listening to rabies radio, it does no such thing.
Yeah! Can't you see how great the economy is functioning with this giant government grab hanging over its head?
Bob: your solution is simplistic and does not grow government, therefor people like Ducky sneer at it. ;
They'll strike down the mandate.
Will Obama then issue some kind of executive-order work around? A commenter at my site so opined.
The mandate is CLEARLY UNconstitutional, and will be struck down. As a result, the whole bill will be struck down because the totalitarians who drafted it didn't include a severability clause--and they did that on purpose.
One part's unconstitutional, and the rest will HAVE to go. The dems gambled when they did that, and thank God it was a STUPID gamble.
we are now mandated to have our BMI taken so that Kathleen Sibelius can make you get down and do 50.
Z, you're absolutely correct when you say that the biggest problem with healthcare in America is the insane costs. Everything is absurdly expensive.
There are REAL ways to address those high prices, and all of those ways deal with the FREE MARKET delivery of healthcare--which ObamaCare ignores in favor of government FORCE!
1. We need substantial tort reform. Malpractice lawsuits need to be capped, and "loser pays" must be implemented IMMEDIATELY!
2. Institute the widespread use of Health Savings Accounts--along with high deductables. Prices would come down almost overnight as doctors realize that patients' ability to pay for services was FINITE. Economic reality would be quickly injected into the pricing equation.
3. Purchasing insurance across state lines....there are MANY great ideas.
ObamaCare is just government FORCE from top to bottom, and it drives prices UP, not down.
The mandate will be struck down thanks to the justices who know their job is to uphold the constitution. It will be 5 to 4. And we know who the 4 will be.
I think they will strike the mandate, but with the ease in which he issues his Executive Orders, will it accompliah anything?
"It's COSTS which need to be fixed."
I couldn't agree more about that, Z!
Have you, or anyone here, ever seen an itemized copy of a hospital stay?
Several dollars for an ordinairy OTC Tylenol tablet.
Not to mention oversights in billing, if that's what they actually are.
I had surgery for a broken arm, once, in Florida, and they charged us over 10 thousand dollars for Codeine injectiions...which I had received only a few times, before discovering I was allergic to it.
When we questioned them, they said it must have been a typo, but not to worry about it BECAUSE INSURANCE WOULD COVER IT!
That was the answer we got when we said that there was no way codeine injections could cost that much.
They did, finally, adjust the bill, but it's that kind of thing that needs to be fixed.
Everyone talking about costs. Man you folks sure do hate the free market (LMAO).
We've got the usual litany but I will continue to ask how insurance costs can be lowered when health insurers have an antitrust exemption (Hint: Single payer).
Medical liability insurers have the same exemption but we here this moronic litany about tort reform. Yeah, a couple insurers with a mandated monopoly are going to lower premiums because their claims payout decreased.
Do you folks ever think?
When we questioned them, they said it must have been a typo, but not to worry about it BECAUSE INSURANCE WOULD COVER IT!
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No Jan, insurers are not in the habit of paying exorbitant claims.
Ducky, the doctors and hospitals are always saying "... not to worry about it BECAUSE INSURANCE WOULD COVER IT!"
That's the typical mantra and that has to stop.
So you think Free Market won't bring prices down? Do you understand Free Market?
z, they weren't saying that when I fractured my hand.
sorry, Ducky...although it's encouraging that they weren't.
Justice Thomas's family received $1.5 million from health care opponents and insurance companies. Our Democracy has been sold and average Americans will suffer however much t their irrational hatred for Obama.
If it fails, everyone here who claims they are against it will know someone who will suffer.
I am hoping the entire thing 5/4 with the being 8/0 in striking the mandate. But then again, I'm not sure they can or do vote that way.
I just hate the split that goes on. At least one of the parts of theAZ case was 8/0. I seriously find it difficult to understand how IF they are supposed to rule on the Constitutionality of a law they come down on the side of the partisan politics so often. It's irritating to me. It says that they cannot separate their "feelings" versus the law.
Z,
I think they'll strike down the mandate. They'll leave the others intact because they don't want the heat that goes with knocking it all down. Gifts are always popular so the SCOTUS doesn't want to be accused of killing grandmas and babies.
BO will claim victory, his minions will get pissed and rally to the polls. Romney better start talking specifics or he'll get steamrolled by the MSM, leftists, etc.
BTW, single payer is a budget buster. Europe is doing so well by the way.
I heard if the SC overturns it, the dems will move quickly to create the 'single payer' system, which means all HC will be provided by the feds and funded by taxpayers. It is what the oblabbycare is designed to do anyway, just taking a bit longer.
My hesitation in deciding whether I want it over-turned or not is wondering if the dems have time before Jan 22, 2013 to make that happen. If the answer to that question is Yes, then I don't think I want it over-turned.
I want romney to win and the repubs to repeal it in its entirety and replace it with something that will be deployed so deeply, the dems, if they should happen to get power again in 4 years, won't be able to do anything about it.
I have believed from the start of this that is was all about re-routing all that HC insurance money through DC.
It just so happens, the dems went wild, like horney vampire monkeys and put a millions tons of evil in the bill while they were at it.
"No Jan, insurers are not in the habit of paying exorbitant claims."
Well, gosh, Duckeroo...now, you're an authority on everything to do with insurance, too!
You seem to have missed the point, entirely, though, as usual.
So, then, are you insinuating that I was just making that up?
"If it fails, everyone here who claims they are against it will know someone who will suffer."
Ummm..let me get this straight, Libmann..are you saying that people in need of health care will get less than what they are receiving now, or what?
Unfortunately, I have some very poor relatives, disabled, unemployed, etc., who pay NOTHING, who are receiving lots of healthcare, and medications, with less hassle than my immediate family who PAYS a pretty good part of anything we do get, right now, if we can get it.
The poor, and minorities will never be denied healthcare, so get a grip!
And it's not ALL about healthcare...it's about the FREEDOM to make our own choices, too.
That seems not to matter to you who are always crying about the right for a woman to choose what happens to her own body, and wanting us to pay for taking innocent lives, once she decides.
We should all get used to governmental proctologic exams. Remember, there is just no such thing as too much government.
~Louie
I think it's likely the mandate gets struck down, which renders several other provisions, guaranteed coverage for instance, untenable. It's a giant step beyond that to quash the entire bill, and send Congress back to the drawing board, but that's truly what needs to be done. Who knows? Maybe this time they'll actually read the damn thing first?
Liberalmann,Clarence Thomas is one of the finest men I've had the pleasure to communicate with and watch and read about.
If he lets his wife's business sway him, that's a miracle...and, frankly, I don't give a damn.
When I think of all the graft Obama's done with secret trysts in the WH "Gee, it wasn't THAT Malik Shabazz who's been here twenty times" and everything else..are you kidding me?
Rita, is it partisan politics or just their interpretation of the law? It's hard to separate the two.
One might call me pretty far right and I make decisions based on that sentiment..fine with ME; I am against the leftist idiocies.
Jan, give up! FREEDOM means NOTHING to big government nuts.
Law and Order...what American media never reported was when I was living in Munich and Gerhard Schroeder was BEGGING Germans to BUY THEIR OWN PRIVATE INSURANCE...WE CAN"T AFFORD IT ANYMORE! (of course, it was NEVER free as our idiot profs and media like to convey)...but...
Kid, the whole THING stinks....in this HC bill, there's a part that says we'll have to pay a large tax if we sell our homes!
How's that HEALTHCARE?
Republicans have to stop being afraid of the media and start screaming from the rafters.
They've got to start pushing like Issa's doing now....Americans need the truth.
I met Star Parker today at a luncheon at which she spoke...will 'report' on it very soon.....She's fabulous and covered the HC bill quite a bit in her talk; how the poor will suffer.
I still am hoping for an answer to liberals about how the health of those of us who're working hard to pay private premiums is JUST AS IMPORTANT as the health of illegals or those who won't or can't pay for it...
It's almost as if WE DON"T COUNT...anybody making over $50K a year is a pig who should be giving everything away.......'who cares if your doctors will be quitting? we need chumps who'll follow what the government panels will say about your care'.
no thank you..........I'm important, too. I work VERY HARD to pay my ins. prems and I will NOT be made to feel like a second class citizen, as if my care isn't important because I"m not POOR. (yet)
Louie...get the gloves on!
viburnum..ya, no mandate, no money to cover everyone.
Unless they borrow MORE from China.
GRRRRRRR
I heard today that 10000 Americans turn 65 every day. That's scary $$$$$
"decreasing the quality of care for the entire nation.."
You mean the real payers and earners. Who would manage fine without being obligated to wreck the entire medical system for the dredges who'd vote for dumbo even if he gave them Elmer Gantry as their primary care..."doctor".
"Several dollars for an ordinairy OTC Tylenol tablet..."
That's "insurance" to cover the illegals who get it all for nada.
Too bad the decision will push this little tidbit about Holder about to make a fool of Isa off the front page.
There is No Question in my mind that duck is a tool for the DNC. None whatsoever.
@Jan- And it's not ALL about healthcare...it's about the FREEDOM to make our own choices, too.
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Ah, the freedom fetish. But let's review the nature of insurance. It's pooled risk.
Now Jan if low risk individuals are allowed to opt out, what happens to the premiums of the others?
Now i understand that being a Southern conservative you have little regard for community, cooperation, shared risk or the like. As a result it is necessary to mandate universal participation.
This idea of freedom that you throw around doesn't have much meaning.
Oh, as an aside are you following the story of the volunteer firefighters in Colorado and their inability to get insurance. They are considered part time seasonal workers and aren't provided benefits. Most private insurers won't sell to them. The Obama bill would help resolve situations like this but I'm sure the firefighters would apologize for any assault on your selfishness, er ... freedom.
"duck is a tool for the DNC..."
Better than that...it's Debbie Wasserman Schmutz in drag?
IMP, I still haven't decided whether debbie is male or female.
Ditto many other democrat politicians.
Ducky, so you watch Maddow, too, huh? I watched today for five minutes, the first time in a month, and she was featuring this :-)
And, as I read the article you linked, I see it's HE SAYS v HE SAYS! SO the guy who you and Maddow LIKE is believable, the other..not so much.
Remember, ATF agents said they couldn't understand why they were told by their bosses to 'go home'...they were always on top of the guns, surveillance was the whole point to Bush's plan when he ran whatever his plan was called (the legal one where the MX gov't knew about things, remember?)...
But, the ATF agents were told to leave.........bad.
FREEDOM isn't important to a socialist; we get that, Ducky. I am not sure you even understand or appreciate it. WHY?
Imp: All well said.
Kid...the DNC is too rightwing for Ducky
Ducky; it's always important to understand that those who echo your hopes aren't always right.
http://www.kqed.org/news/story/2011/06/15/57621/atf_agents_gun_program_a_leadership_failure?source=npr&category=u.s
<< if low risk individuals are allowed to opt out, what happens to the premiums of the others? >>
Similarly, what happens to costs when a system is put in place that is intended to "insure" you against loss, turns into over untilized care?
Here is an example of a system run amok: patient is over weight, will not excericise and eats crap (maybe drinks too much) and that results in:
Blood Pressure too high? Take this Linsinopril and Hydrochlorothiazide.
Cholesterol too high? Here is some Zocor.
Developing diabetes? Lets treat your pancreas and liver because you with a long list of drugs because you drink too much and are over weight.
Sex not so good or no longer is an option? Lets fix that with this.
Who is paying for this BS? This is our system. It results in slow, early death that is extremely expensive. Our system is under funded and over ultilized.
My best advice, and I am paid to give it professionally, people better get their shit together and practice prevention. No matter how this comes down there will not be enough doctors to treat you. Start treating yourself.
Similarly, what happens to costs when a system is put in place that is intended to "insure" you against loss, turns into over untilized care?
-------------
Agreed, a system of co-pays has to be in place.
<< Agreed, a system of co-pays has to be in place. >>
We see it the same; perhaps even some relative personal incentives to meet the basic standards and/or self-improvement in health benchmarks.
The problem with my second statement is that we are not equally "responders" to diet and exercise, music, science, and math’s paradigms. Having said that, the great preponderance of people are responders.
Mandate is ruled anticonstitutional. Rest remains but crumble b/c of the mandate issue.
FrogBurger
There's no ideal solution but we need to insure the big ticket item, the big and costly diseases. The unexpected. Not the booboos and broken fingers.
Those should be payable cash.
The problem of cost is b/c we're partly insured. I went to the dermatologist several times for a wart and it's insanely expensive. IF I was paying cash, prices would be cut 75%.
My sister has a friend who is not insured and has prostate cancer. He's paying cash and the prices are discounted a lot.
That's why costs haven't decreased in Europe. Gov doesn't reduce costs, it only controls them. And when it controls them people make the money somewhere else. In the US for example where medications are expensive b/c pharmaceuticals can't make the profit they want to make in countries like France.
FrogBurger
KP, actually, there IS a new suggestion that the FEDS are making that doctors are to identify their obese patients and either counsel them or have them counseled $$$$$$
So, the gov't's stepping in and telling our docs what to do now, too.
Obviously, I think it's good to get ourselves as healthy as we can on our own, and I understand costs go sky high when we're fat, or diabetic or have high cholesterol, but to have the gov't constantly step in to 'fix things'....notsosure.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/25/science/la-sci-obesity-screening-20120622
There ya go! Kid is probably going to blog on this...I need to get over and see if he's done it already!
FB, could you explain this for me? I want to understand it "In the US for example where medications are expensive b/c pharmaceuticals can't make the profit they want to make in countries like France."
Thanks.
I found your point about costs very interesting; yes, we must make people pay for the small stuff, you're right.
By the way, I ran into Holly today at a Star Parker event...she was standing in front when I went to wait for my car! Nice to see her...hadn't heard from her in a very long time.
"Now i understand that being a Southern conservative you have little regard for community, cooperation, shared risk or the like. As a result it is necessary to mandate universal participation."
Ducky, you have no idea who I am, or what I regard.
I don't know why I am even bothering to respond to your insult, and to tell you the truth, I am too much of a 'Southern' lady to express what I really think of you.
I'm from the South, yes, many years ago, but unlike you I am not ashamed of having been born there.
No matter how hard I try to find something in common with you, so that I could at least like you, there's nothing there. Literally.
Keep living in YOUR dream world, Ducky, where you have YOURSELF convinced that you have 'regard for community, cooperation, shared risk, and the like.'
You certainly don't have me convinced of it.
I can't even tell you how disappointing you are...
"Now i understand that being a Southern conservative you have little regard for community, cooperation, shared risk or the like. As a result it is necessary to mandate universal participation."
unbelievable....
I'm so sorry, Jan...it truly is unbelievable.
Z, since medication prices are controlled in France or Canada, drug makers have to make their margins where those prices are not controlled. Hence the hefty prices in the US.
FrogBurger
UPHELD!!! WOOT!!!
FB, that's why the AMerican companies come up with the innovations, etc...they have extra money to 'invent'..
Libmann...Your Liar in Chief pulled it off. How many times did he tell the AMerican public "THIS IS NOT A TAX" before he sent his lawyers in to cunningly sell this to SCOTUS as a tax?
good job...liars. Americans will suffer.
The bill would have never passed without Comrade Bachmann "leading" the fight against it.
"Constitutionalist" Medicare junkies are rejoicing all over Amerika.
Beamish is starting in again.
Oh dear.
"Beamish is starting in again."
FB, I've renamed beamish, he's really Johnny One Note!
Pris,
If correctly identifying the left-wing "don't kill granny" tune you Tea Party Stalinists sing so well makes me "Johnny One Note," I'll just take the brunt of your namecalling sans logic while continuing to point out that freeloading Medicare junkies like yourself look rather absurd claiming to be "constitutionalists," much less conservative.
But you knew that, didn't you hippy?
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