Saturday, August 8, 2009

Ben Stein.....no more NY Times Column

IS THIS A JOKE? Ben Stein loses his NY Times column and speaking engagements for giving his beliefs and being a pitchman for a credit monitoring company? WHAT?
Read this, please...HERE. Something's weird........maybe I'm not getting the implications...or I hope I'm not. I'll bet it's not because Stein's conservative, right? (ya, right)

46 comments:

Joe said...

Outrageous!

I have written NYT expressing my concerns over this.

Liberal media is beside itself over why it is losing readership (listenership/viewership), blaming everything but the truth.

The Lightning Man said...

Y'know, pretty soon they're gonna start rounding up the conservatives and sending us to re-education camps and making us wear little gold elephants on our pinstriped pajamas.

Papieren, bitte?

FrogBurger said...

What a joke. Obama can send tax payer money to ACORN but this guy has to stop all other activities?

Maybe it's anti-semitism

FrogBurger said...

Z, I sent you an email and it bounced. That would explain the window asking you for a username and password.

Anonymous said...

Well heck. the NY Times was already just too crowded with pitchmen for Barack Obama. One dissenting voice was just one too many that's all!

Besides, why would Ben want to go down with a sinking ship. Better he take hold of a life raft. They did him a favor.

Pris

Z said...

FrogBurger....earthlink told the techie who came today for almost 4 hours, that a blog of earthlink accounts are having this problem and it'll be solved in a few hours...MAYBE. thanks

christian soldier said...

Ben Stein -- you do NOT need the dying times...
Stein
dying times
rhymes...
AFA his speaking engagements--I'll bet Hillsdale or Patrick Henry would welcome him w. open arms!
C-CS

FrogBurger said...

Best news ever. Wonder who the mobsters are now

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090808/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_drugmakers;_ylt=AtMOfx0qZLp8l4SD_Gtz15.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFmNnVqYnE3BHBvcwMxMDUEc2VjA2FjY29yZGlvbl9idXNpbmVzcwRzbGsDb2JhbWFzaGVhbHRo

Z said...

FrogBurger...we could be done now.
That's a huge amount of advertising, they'll be playing to the weakest denominators and they'll win. It's THE ugliest lying crap I've ever seen; They want bigger sales and know that supposed 50 million uncovered Americans (and nonAmericans, of course) will now be prescribed their drugs.
HOW DISGUSTING that the WH (aka Axelrod) has arranged this deception.........and how compliantly the pharmaceuticals have reacted$$$$

I HONESTLY didn't think the HealthScare plan could win; That article changes things around.

Somebody, please....tell me I'm VERY WRONG and why..PLEASE!!?

Always On Watch said...

I don't buy the "reason" given in the article.

Ben Stein is an outspoken conservative with quite a following. That's what got him into trouble with the Traitor Times, in my view.

Always On Watch said...

The link left by FrogBurger is terrible news!

If the pharma industry has that much money on hand, why do we pay anything for prescription meds in the first place? Just askin'.

Sue said...

I can't get the link Frogburger left. Can someone help me with it...although something tells me I don't really want to see it.

G-Man said...

Here's Froggy's link. Just click away!

psi bond said...

New York Times spokeswoman Catherine Mathis released a statement Friday that said the newspaper decided it would not be appropriate for Stein to pitch for FreeScore.com while writing his column.

"Ben Stein's fine work for us as a columnist for Sunday Business had to end, we told him, after we learned that he had become a commercial spokesman for FreeScore, a financial services company," Mathis said.

FreeScore.com may be a suspect company offering free services of dubious value----Reuters' Felix Salmon described it as "a sleazy company which exists only to extract large sums of money from those who can least afford it." Ben Stein may have had a conflict of interest and violated an ethics rule for business opinion columnists at the New York Times, but he can't be all bad.

Although he believes that Darwin's theory of biological evolution is really a fascist political theory, that intelligent design is a valid scientific hypothesis, and has likened an Obama rally (that's Obama, not Palin) to Hitler's rallies at Nuremberg, he has advocated increasing taxation on the wealthy. and endorsed Al Franken for the 2008 Minnesota Senate race.

Nonetheless, rightwingers who have always hated the New York Times can use this to cheer themselves by spinning it as a conspiracy that proves them right.

FrogBurger said...

Then the gov can prescribe mandatory drugs and vaccinations, stuff that will brainwash our minds, make our body weak, etc...

This is getting scary. I watched Glenn Beck today and all the quotes of Obama's advisor about how life can be summed up in term of cost-benefit is creepy.

I'm not the most religious man on the planet -- never go to Church -- but this is very scary.

FrogBurger said...

Can you believe Obama's making me miss my French socialist leaders, who seem to have more humanity b/c there's a large portion of socialist who are christians.

The American left is scientific and pagan. The way fascists are. They talk about humans as part of the ecosystem, nothing more.

I'm sure Americans will react to this. I hope they will.

FrogBurger said...

If your read MSNBC.com, the 150 mil dollars from the pharmaceuticals mean this will dwarf plans to derail the bill.

I am laughing at their interpretation.

I thought the pharmaceuticals were the devil.

God this people have no shame.

psi bond said...

Can you believe Obama's making me miss my French socialist leaders, who seem to have more humanity b/c there's a large portion of socialist who are christians.

Frog, you are right; you seem to have made a mistake taking U.S. citizenship.

Z said...

Oh, my, Psi Bond.
A lot of Germans thought Obama's rallies were reminiscent of Hitler rallies, too, particularly the Greek columned acceptance speech. Good for Styne for the fortitude and honesty to also say it. Of course, if you're at all familiar with Leni Riefenstahl, you'd have to agree.

Imagine..the NY Times, which has divulged secrets the WH had asked them not to on the grounds of American security (to only name ONE indiscretion) suddenly finds religion and lets Stein go for this? have they no shame? Seen this?:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08032009/gossip/pagesix/arthur_sulzberger_booed_at_brooklyn_conc_182713.htm

It's not going unnoticed, these tricks and hypocrysies of the NY TIMES :-) tsk tsk tsk Huffington carried the story, too.

Joe, good for you for writing.

Lightning Man.. "Papieren, bitte?" richtig...

FrogBurger, thanks for all your contributions; especially that horrifying link ... it's getting very scary in leftwinger ville..
Faith is about the only thing that's keeping me sane, a friend called me from Indiana today and said the same thing "If it weren't for my faith, I'd be in real bad shape".

Pris and CS, I think you're right...a very happy favor, hypocritical as it is!

Sue, did you ever get into the link? it works for me.
G-Man looks like he left another link for you?

Always......can you imagine what's happening in this country?

To THINK that the leftwingers can actually see what's happening and condone it is unconscienable; I thought most of them at least knew their constitution; that most of them wouldn't believe in a COMPLETE overhaul of a health system which needs tweaking ,not communist tactics...
Very sad...some Americans.

Mark said...

He would have lost his job anyway, as soon as the New York Slimes finally goes bankrupt and closes it's doors, which will happen eventually, as long as Pinch is in charge.

Z said...

Psi Bond....you should be ashamed of yourself. How ugly.
He came here to escape socialism; now he's getting it in spades.

A Canadian electrician was doing work on our home about 4 months ago, he said the same thing; "I'm 25 years old and left Canada because I saw what it did to my family and I needed more opportunity, now I'm seeing Obama ruin America, too"....every one of the young guys on his crew felt the same way; hip, nice kids...devastated.

Z said...

Mark, Excellent point. See that link I just left about the booing of Sulzberg?
Apparently, the NYTimes is in bad financial shape and yes, Stein might have been done a favor.

I grieve..the New York Times was the big paper of this country; Just like everything else leftist, it's like a metaphor for disaster. I'm very sad this is happening to it, too bad leftwing ideology's become so dangerous and blatant even New Yorkers with minds are seeing through it.

psi bond said...

Z: Psi Bond....you should be ashamed of yourself. How ugly.
He came here to escape socialism; now he's getting it in spades
.

Yeah, he's getting rightwing propaganda in spades. As a natural-born American, I welcome the huddled masses of French refugees, even if they see America no longer as the last best hope for individual freedom and liberal democracy.

psi bond said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
psi bond said...

Z: Oh, my, Psi Bond.
A lot of Germans thought Obama's rallies were reminiscent of Hitler rallies, too, particularly the Greek columned acceptance speech. Good for Styne for the fortitude and honesty to also say it. Of course, if you're at all familiar with Leni Riefenstahl, you'd have to agree
.

Oh, Z, I think the audience for which that set was designed was an American one that could discern the difference between Hollywood-style exuberant celebration and Leni Riefenstahl's hagiographic work, enshrined in (German) film history, should they be familiar with it. I could tell that many in the crowd for that acceptance speech recognized the difference, even if your friends in Germany didn't.

Imagine..the NY Times, which has divulged secrets the WH had asked them not to on the grounds of American security (to only name ONE indiscretion) suddenly finds religion and lets Stein go for this? have they no shame?

A press controlled by the government acting in the alleged national interest is a press that is not free. Although Ben Stein has done fine work for the NYT, as its spokesperson states, it maintains internal guidelines of ethics, even if that opens it to frivolous charges of ideological conspiracy from foaming extremists.

Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost.
— Thomas Jefferson

Extreme rightwingers opposing Obama are free to spin the news as they like it to try to scare the American public into embracing them.

Seen this?:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08032009/gossip/pagesix/arthur_sulzberger_booed_at_brooklyn_conc_182713.htm


No, but if it is about the fact that Sulzberger Jr got scattered booing somewhere, which has gotten a lot of attention in the (rightwing) media, I say, "Thank God, there is freedom of the press in America!" Even if it is often given to trivia.

FrogBurger said...

Psi bond is another idiot.

I'm really proud to be a US citizen. Even prouder now that I see people reacting to this non sense.

In France everybody's been brainwashed already. There's no diverse thinking anymore.

People may be fighting in a culture war here but at least we have different thoughts.

Nevertheless, yes, Obama's left is worst than the French left. Especially now that the French left recognizes globalization and free market cannot be avoided.

Psibond you're an ignoramus. At least Mr Z and I have valuable comparisons, a different perspective based on living in different places. You only have the talking points your mobster in chief is giving you.

For example, "you'll be able to keep your doctor." "Wow why are people not in favor of healthcare reform then?"

The President thinks we're dumb. I think he's right in the case of people like you.

Always On Watch said...

FrogBurger,
I'm sure Americans will react to this. I hope they will.

They would react if they knew the same stories we do.

Sadly, most Americans rely on the msm for their news. Z and I will be discussing that mess on this coming Friday's The Gathering Storm.

psi bond said...

Psi bond is another idiot.

Frog, I think you may be right----it is idiotic of me to expect that you would respond intelligently, free of hostile ideological bias.

I'm really proud to be a US citizen. Even prouder now that I see people reacting to this non sense.

I am proud that you think highly of this country and glad that you have found a political refuge from the oppression of your awful native land.

In France everybody's been brainwashed already. There's no diverse thinking anymore.

So, then, people in France have less humanity than here.

There is no conflict in France now? Does everyone in the cities and the provinces think alike there? Is that what you believe to be true? In elections, one candidate gets 100% of the vote? At least, that eliminates the need for courts to settle disputes.

People may be fighting in a culture war here but at least we have different thoughts.

Hence you are not longing for France, contrary to what you suggested previously. Let's hope that people will always think different thoughts.

Nevertheless, yes, Obama's left is worst than the French left. Especially now that the French left recognizes globalization and free market cannot be avoided.

It should be obvious that Obama is not in control of the left in this country. It's not clear what standard you use to measure how injurious political positions may be, or whether an objective standard exists.

Psibond you're an ignoramus. At least Mr Z and I have valuable comparisons, a different perspective based on living in different places. You only have the talking points your mobster in chief is giving you.

You're speculating on the basis of a false picture of me. You assume you know me, but you're ignorant of my history. I have lived in a foreign country for a number of years. And I have been to France.

For example, "you'll be able to keep your doctor." "Wow why are people not in favor of healthcare reform then?"

There are several proposals for healthcare reform being considered in Congress. It is not as simple as you want to represent it. Nonetheless, the majority of Americans are in favor of some form of healthcare reform.

The President thinks we're dumb. I think he's right in the case of people like you.

C'est-à-dire, you think the president thinks we're dumb. Tristement, many people may be bête enough to believe you are right.

Ducky's here said...

'bout time they got rid of this cheap shill.

Not that the public has learned that financial writers with conflicts of interest can be damaging to you financial well being but there's time yet.

Ben ever make you guys any money. Alan Abelson over at Barron's did okay by me when he was calling the bubble early on.

Stein should stick to making commercials with Shaq and you folk should start finding some financial writers with a little depth.

FrogBurger said...

Psibond, your initial comment

"you seem to have made a mistake taking U.S. citizenship."

was pointless and personal. So I did attack you personally.
That's what you get when you start.

Yes there are more variety of thoughts in the US. Most French people are statists and are afraid of free market. That's why someone who's in favor of free market is called a Liberal. Because it goes against the grain. Even my mom who's on the right side of things, tend to think in a socialist way. Because our educational system is designed to brainwash us. In college I only learned Bourdieu, Marx and was told many times the Austrian economics were off.

Having been to France doesn't mean you have suffered the consequences of the French system. Having lived in a foreign country doesn't mean you experienced it like a local.

America is the best country on the planet. The only one that has implemented sheer freedom. That is why so many people want and still want to come.

To me that says enough.

And now Obama and people like you want to oppress people like me who want to stay free and responsible. Either for the sake of power or for freedom of necessities.

So I am indeed angry and rightfully so.

So when your argumentation is lousy, I do think you're an ignoramus.

No apologies. Remember I'm part of the mob.

FrogBurger said...

Psychotic Bond said "There are several proposals for healthcare reform being considered in Congress."

So maybe you can elaborate to see if there's one I could agree with.

My wife and I are reading the bill by the way. Taking notes. At least we'll know what we're talking about instead of listening to the media frenzy.

Status on the first 35 pages I've read: free preventive healthcare will not drive cost down. It will only increase them not only b/c people will go to the doc for the smallest booboo. Like people are doing in France.

That's why healthcare costs cannot be controlled in France either, even with price control on medications.

And that's why French citizens are encouraged to take private insurance now, called "mutuelles".

I'll keep reading the bill and I encourage any lefty to do the same, and look around the world, before using the president talking points.

FrogBurger said...

"It should be obvious that Obama is not in control of the left in this country. It's not clear what standard you use to measure how injurious political positions may be, or whether an objective standard exists."

So who is in control of the left? Who's asking ACORN and SEIU to counterattack in townhall meetings?

My standards for political positions are fairly straightforward. Someone who agrees with a Marxist point of view and advocates collectivist solution, or who thinks the State supersedes the individual, is on the left. That's why I consider Mussolini and Hitler as part of some kind of left if I use the right-left paradigm. A nationalistic, racially-based left that is different from a internationalist left like Obama's.

But I admit that the vision of a straight line to explain political positions is not adequate. The Libertarian quadrant is actually better. But human beings love to simplify, especially in the age of Powerpoint bullet points.

Which explains that a lot of people retain the "you can keep your doctor" quote as a valid argument.
Which also explains why leftist ideas seem so appealing to a lot of people. They are based on shallow and emotional thinking and poor analysis of numbers (e.g. 47 millions of uninsured, therefore something is wrong.)

Mark said...

So, PSI Bond, if you think the United States is so "awful", no one is forcing you to stay here.

Leave this "awful" place and take up residence in some Socialist country.I'm sure you'll find Cuba or Argentina or North Korea more to your liking.

Go, and never darken my towels again.

Z said...

psi bond, a lesson: "remimiscent" does not always mean "not seeing a difference!" you lost your point and help us all see your mindset.
And, I don't believe Thomas Jefferson EVER thought we'd allow traitors into our printed media who'd actually attempt at blowing our cover. This is ALL NEW and ALL by the Leftwingers.
Context, Psi Bond....that was another silly cheap shot.

Sulzberg gets booed, making the point that the NY Times isn't quite the revered paper it still would have been had he not done so MANY things which have shown the intent of the paper...and You think that's Freedom of the press!
Don't look now, but it made my point.
By the way, you must be a huge fan of FOX and the Washington Post, then, though you never seem to be; that's THEIR freedom, too, although they never jeopardize our lives through their stories.
odd

psi bond said...

Psibond, your initial comment

"
[Frog, you are right;] you seem to have made a mistake taking U.S. citizenship."

was pointless and personal. So I did attack you personally.
That's what you get when you start
.

I didn't start. You are confusing my taking note of a mistake you may have made with an insult to your intelligence. There's a difference, you know. And there is a point and it is that, when you pine for the politics of France (where, incredibly, according to your report, all people have the same thoughts), you are suggesting that America is inferior and perhaps not the best destination for immigration.

Anger has a tendency to blur vision. Emotional thinking in anger is to be distrusted.

Yes there are more variety of thoughts in the US. Most French people are statists and are afraid of free market. That's why someone who's in favor of free market is called a Liberal. Because it goes against the grain. Even my mom who's on the right side of things, tend to think in a socialist way. Because our educational system is designed to brainwash us. In college I only learned Bourdieu, Marx and was told many times the Austrian economics were off.

There are many opposing political factions in the U.S. (as I suspect there are in France). Yet conservatives may hold some signature liberal positions and vice versa.

Farmers in France and the U.S. seem to think alike in wanting government price supports or government regulation of production.

The public intellectual Pierre Bourdieu is virtually unknown in the U.S., unjustifiably so, while Marx is widely considered obsolete, and rightly so, except as a school of literary criticism that may produce interesting insights into classic texts of literature.

Having been to France doesn't mean you have suffered the consequences of the French system. Having lived in a foreign country doesn't mean you experienced it like a local.

Whatever you think you know of my experience of France (I ate the snail butter but I didn't require medical attention), the relevant point you evade here is that you came to a conclusion based on a presumption about me that is false----it was not a specimen of sound reasoning.

(Mont St. Michel was enchanting.)

Your hyped personal suffering under the French system is not necessarily applicable to the American system under development, which hopefully will differ and benefit from the mistakes in other countries.

America is the best country on the planet. The only one that has implemented sheer freedom. That is why so many people want and still want to come.

So you are walking your comment back, as they say: There's no reason for you to pine for the French political environment. People here have all kinds of thoughts, even the most absurd things.

To me that says enough.

It says enough to correct the contrary impression of your previous statement.

And now Obama and people like you want to oppress people like me who want to stay free and responsible. Either for the sake of power or for freedom of necessities.

Rightwingers love to spin conspiracies, but I have no desire or plan to oppress people like you or anyone else, notwithstanding your agitprop-induced hysterical suspicions. You do it all to yourself. America may not be perfect, but "sheer freedom" can still be enjoyed, regardless of what gloomy rightwingers proclaim.

So I am indeed angry and rightfully so.

Anger is tolerable as long as you respect the intelligence and right of expression of those who disagree with you.

So when your argumentation is lousy, I do think you're an ignoramus.

Your anger has not helped your reasoning.

No apologies. Remember I'm part of the mob.

A rightwing supremacist is one who conflates Absolute Truth with his inflexible personal political opinions.

Being a rightwing supremacist means never having to say you're sorry.

psi bond said...

Mark: So, PSI Bond, if you think the United States is so "awful", no one is forcing you to stay here.

Your putting words in my mouth. The only country I called awful is France, since it allegedly produces political refugees from socialism like Monsieur Frog.

You need to learn, Mark, to read what is written, not what you expect to see.

psi bond said...

psi bond, a lesson: "remimiscent" does not always mean "not seeing a difference!" you lost your point and help us all see your mindset.

My mental outlook is more concerned with the view from America than from Germany. For most Americans, Greek columns on that controversial set were most likely to evoke (be reminiscent of) the cradle of Western civilization and the Greek beginnings of liberal democracy, which seemed to have attained its finest hour in November 2008, as many on the left and right believed. Only unhappy rightwing critics could insist it recalls the rightwing oppression of the Third Reich or anti-Semitism.

And, I don't believe Thomas Jefferson EVER thought we'd allow traitors into our printed media who'd actually attempt at blowing our cover. This is ALL NEW and ALL by the Leftwingers.
Context, Psi Bond....that was another silly cheap shot
.

It is a silly cheap shot, Z, to insinuate that Ben Stein's firing by the NYT is a free speech issue.

Regardless of what you imagine Jefferson never thought, alleged traitors in our printed media is certainly not ALL NEW. Think August 5, 1735 and John Peter Zenger. "No nation, ancient or modern, ever lost the liberty of speaking freely, writing, or publishing their sentiments, but forthwith lost their liberty in general and became slaves" stated Zenger in his account of the sedition trial in which he was acquitted.

The context remains relevant to this day. Thomas Jefferson was manifestly right in his time and clearly so for our time as well. As he stated, freedom of the press cannot be abridged by the government without losing it, a principle entrenched in our law by the U.S. Constitution, Z.

Sulzberg gets booed, making the point that the NY Times isn't quite the revered paper it still would have been had he not done so MANY things which have shown the intent of the paper...and You think that's Freedom of the press!

Nothing of the sort can be objectively inferred from Sulzberger reportedly getting some scattered boos in Brooklyn. Although you pretend you know, no one knows why they booed----the boors might have just thought that, in the context of that venue, it was a cool thing to be doing. One person may have started it and a few scattered persons may have considered it cool to join in, perhaps not even knowing whom the booing was for.

You try too hard, Z, to read into inconclusive things what you desperately wish to be true. In my part of the country, copies of the national edition of NYT sell out very fast. I usually have to be satisfied with a digital NYT fix. Still, many like me subscribe to the Sunday edition.

Even Fox quotes the Times when it has a story critical of Obama or when the story says what Fox likes to hear. Most local papers carry national and international stories bought from the Times. Many of the most important news stories are broken by the Times. For example, on the front page of this Sunday's edition, there is this:

WASHINGTON — The changing global climate will pose profound strategic challenges to the United States in coming decades, raising the prospect of military intervention to deal with the effects of violent storms, drought, mass migration and pandemics, military and intelligence analysts say.

Such climate-induced crises could topple governments, feed terrorist movements or destabilize entire regions, say the analysts, experts at the Pentagon and intelligence agencies who for the first time are taking a serious look at the national security implications of climate change
.....

Don't look now, but it made my point.

Your silly point is that all things will show you're right.

Don't look now, Z, but, unwittingly, you have exposed your mindset. Any trivial thing can be spun extravagantly so as to enable you to claim you have proved the point you hold dear. The world is more complex, I fear.

psi bond said...

By the way, you must be a huge fan of FOX and the Washington Post [do you mean the Washington Times?], then, though you never seem to be; that's THEIR freedom, too, although they never jeopardize our lives through their stories.
odd


I "never seem to be" anything to you but your stereotype of me. Of course, I am a supporter of media that fairly express a rightwing slant editorially. But whether, according to you, "they never jeopardize our lives through their stories" is arguable. For example, by disseminating in prime time only negative stories about Obama and the U.S. economy, Fox may be helping to rally and embolden our enemies.

Perhaps you do not remember, but I do, when Fox broadcast the position of our troops during an ongoing battle in Iraq. Fox covers stories it can use to discredit Obama; there's nothing about the counterfeit Kenyan birth certificate for Obama.

By the way, what happened to beamish? I am really worried about him. He was supposed to resume our marathon debate five or six days ago.
odd

Z said...

Psi bond. Think what you will.
Twist, cajole, lie. OKAY, the NY Times is having glorious success and CNN didn't show the location of our troops in Desert storm.
Happy?

As for Beamish? I think he's probably tiring of you, too, no offense.

FJ said...

Alinsky, "Rules for Radicals"

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

Another one (conservative) bites the dust!

Jen aka Pinky said...

Psi, have you met Dora? You'd make a great couple!

:shudder:

But seriously, have you ever retracted a statement during a political debate? Have you ever apologized to a 'right wing supremacist'?

You talk about being thoughtful and level-headed with dialogue, but you label those that disagree with you.

So very, very intolerant of you.

psi bond said...

Jen aka Pinky: But seriously, have you ever retracted a statement during a political debate?

Yes. What is your point?

Have you ever apologized to a 'right wing supremacist'?

A rightwing supremacist, as I defined him, has no need of anyone's apology.

You talk about being thoughtful and level-headed with dialogue, but you label those that disagree with you.

In my usage, thoughtfulness and levelheadedness are descriptions of online behavior, not intentionally insulting epithets about the person himself.

So very, very intolerant of you.

On the contrary, I am tolerant of those that misbehave in the course of attempting dialogue with political opponents. That's why I am here.

psi bond said...

Z: Psi bond. Think what you will.

Thanks.

In other words, Z, I can't be right because it is in discord with your beliefs. In other words, Thomas Jefferson defending the founding principle of freedom of the press is now out-of-date, according to your belief. In other words, Ben Stein is a rightwing martyr to freedom of speech, thanks to the NYT. In other words, "the intent" of the New York Times is to destroy America, in the view of rightwingers thinking like you.

Sorry, but denying facts does not put an end to them, Z.

Twist, cajole, lie. OKAY, the NY Times is having glorious success.

It is not true that I said "the NY Times is having glorious success". That is just you twisting what I did say so as to make it appear absurd. It may work on your friends, but you can't cajole me into believing I said that.

What I said is that some scattered boos in Brooklyn don't prove, as you strenuously allege, that there is no longer any respect for the Times. Have you heard that the Christian Monitor has folded its Old Media operation and is now only on the Internet? Papers of all editorial slants are experiencing tough financial times as a result of the rise of New Media.

Also, my point is that the NYT continues to publish ground-breaking stories.

and CNN didn't show the location of our troops in Desert storm.

In real time? Like Fox? And therefore Fox cannot be said to endanger American lives?

As for Beamish? I think he's probably tiring of you, too, no offense.

Is that what beamish tells you in e-mail? He vowed he would never tire of debating me to try to prove his preposterous points.

Jen aka Pinky said...

Psi,
when you pull sentences apart, you lose the point. Sad that I have to tell you that. You are intolerant BECAUSE you label people 'right-wing supremacists'.

"Once you label me you negate me."
Soren Kierkergard

I'm aware that you are not the only person on this blog to assign labels. However, you are the only one in this thread to claim to be tolerant and level-headed, which would imply that you are above name-calling.

It must be convenient to decide who is deserving of an apology.

Jen aka Pinky said...

mm hmmm.
That's what I THOUGHT!

;-)

psi bond said...

Psi,
when you pull sentences apart, you lose the point. Sad that I have to tell you that
.

Sorry to say, some serious analysis is seriously needed here, Pinky (to use one of your labels). Uncritical acceptance of whatever people write is a recipe for misunderstanding. Since you're pulling apart my sentences, you should know that.

You are intolerant BECAUSE you label people 'right-wing supremacists'.

'Rightwing supremacist' is a dispassionate descriptive term; that is how it is intended.

Making useful distinctions is not by itself an act of intolerance. If I label someone a pretty woman, or an immigrant American, or a rightwinger, or a postman, or a liberal Democrat, or a man in a baseball cap, or a born-again Christian, or a moderate Muslim, it's not because that is a person I cannot tolerate, but because I have a need to specify him or her, as does everyone. It does not necessarily follow that I cannot think of that person as an individual.

"Once you label me you negate me."
Soren Kierkergard


I have read Kierkegaard's philosophy with interest, including these famous words. At the same time, I have always labeled him a philosopher, which is an affirmation of what he manifestly is. I hope he is not offended. For the fact of his being a philosopher does not merely rest on my personal opinion.

I doubt he meant to say labels that are descriptive in purpose are an unjustifiable form of denigration. But Kierkegaard said he left the task of discovering his meaning to his readers; so everyone may read into his words what he pleases. I suppose he meant the world is an endless variety of subjective alternate realities in which he wished to be regarded as a sect of one. But neither he nor anyone else could get through the day without labeling.

I label him 'Soren Kierkegaard' (pace). He was a strong critic of Hegelianism----there's another label.

I'm aware that you are not the only person on this blog to assign labels. However, you are the only one in this thread to claim to be tolerant and level-headed, which would imply that you are above name-calling.

You may have inferred that I did, but (with the exception of the one embodied in this sentence) I make no claims for myself----at least, I try not to. I only make claims for the ideas I consider. It is a fact, however, that I have upheld tolerance as a virtue against rightwingers who believe it is not one. And I made a statement about levelheaded rightwingers, not about me, elsewhere on this blog, in a long thread that appears to be dead, unfortunately. Tolerance and levelheadedness are two ideals I aspire to, but I make no boasts for myself regarding them.

Certainly, what is commonly known as name-calling is different than straightforward description. It is my observation that a lot of rightwingers have no tolererance of people with different opinions because they believe or act as if their own opinions are Absolute Truth. That is what I hope to have captured in the descriptive label 'rightwing supremacist'.

Hence, your implication, Pinky, that I am indulging myself in the same pejorative name-calling as others may be convenient, but it's false.

It must be convenient to decide who is deserving of an apology.

It must be, since everyone is doing it.