Saturday, May 16, 2009

Great Orators of the Democratic Party:

'One man with courage makes a majority.'
- Andrew Jackson

'The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.'
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

'The buck stops here.'
- Harry S. Truman

'Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.'

- John F. Kennedy


and FROM TODAY'S DEMOCRATS;

'It depends what your definition of 'IS' is?''

- Bill Clinton

'That Obama - I would like to cut his NUTS off.'

- Jesse Jackson

'Those rumors are false .... I believe in the sanctity of marriage.'- John Edwards

'I invented the Internet.'- Al Gore

'It doesn't matter if the planet is cooling and plants need it to live. We still have to ban carbon dioxide.'

- Henry Waxman

'The next Person that tells me I'm not religious, I'm going to shove my rosary beads up their ASS.'- Joe Biden

'America is--is no longer, uh, what it--it, uh, could be, uh what it was once was...uh, and I say to myself, 'uh, I don't want that future, uh, uh for my children.'

- Barack Obama

'I have campaigned in all 57 states.'- Barack Obama

'You don't need God anymore, you have us democrats.'

- Nancy Pelosi

'Paying taxes is voluntary.'- Harry Reid


'Bill is the greatest husband and father I know. No one is more faithful, true, and honest than he.'

- Hillary Clinton


'The days of "traditional values" and strong foreign policy are over.'- Chuck Schumer

'I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems, I regard them as great assets. I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis. - Barney Frank

Funny, this should have been fun to post or read, right? ..........not so much.

"IN GOD WE TRUST"

74 comments:

beamish said...

"I think the United States should have offered the opportunity to provide the nuclear fuel [to Iran], test them, see whether or not they were actually looking for it for peaceful purposes." - John Kerry, September 30, 2004 Presidential debate

psi bond said...

"The internet is a great way to get on the net." - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate

"I'm telling you there's an enemy that would like to attack America, Americans, again. There just is. That's the reality of the world. And I wish him all the very best." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009

"In terms of the economy, look, I inherited a recession, I am ending on a recession." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009

"I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 16, 2008

"I've been in the Bible every day since I've been the president." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Nov. 12, 2008

"I want to share with you an interesting program -- for two reasons, one, it's interesting, and two, my wife thought of it -- or has actually been involved with it; she didn't think of it. But she thought of it for this speech." --George W. Bush, discussing a company that improves access to clean water in Africa, Washington D.C., Oct. 21, 2008

"This thaw -- took a while to thaw, it's going to take a while to unthaw." --George W. Bush, on liquidity in the markets, Alexandria, La., Oct. 20, 2008

"I didn't grow up in the ocean -- as a matter of fact -- near the ocean -- I grew up in the desert. Therefore, it was a pleasant contrast to see the ocean. And I particularly like it when I'm fishing." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 26, 2008

"The people in Louisiana must know that all across our country there's a lot of prayer -- prayer for those whose lives have been turned upside down. And I'm one of them." --George W. Bush, Baton Rouge, La., Sept. 3, 2008

"First of all, I don't see America having problems." --George W. Bush, interview with Bob Costas at the 2008 Olympics, Beijing, China, Aug. 10, 2008

"I'm coming as the president of a friend, and I'm coming as a sportsman." --George W. Bush, on his trip to the Olympics in China, Washington, D.C., July 30, 2008

JINGOIST said...

Thanks for the morning chuckle Z! I have mixed feelings about the 1st three Presidents you listed, but they make the others look like,,,,well you fill in the 4 letter blank. :-)

Thanks for the banner headlines yesterday, you're the best Z!

DaBlade said...

"I think we had quite enough capitalism in the last eight years..." - Howard Dean

While a recent quote, it's worthy of your list I think. As for psi, get over the Bush hatred thing. What's the difference between a "slip of the tongue" from Bush and an Obama quote that gives you a peak into his hate- filled liberal socialist agenda? Both can make you cringe, but I asked for the differences.

Zack R said...

Great not-so-fun post, Z. And DaBlade nicely sums up the psi quotes as contrasted with those by various Democrat Party members. When Bush clumsily constructs a sentence so that it sounds as if he, not Katrina victims, is upside down, this is categorically different than when, e.g., Howard Deans says "we've had enough of Capitalism."

christian soldier said...

Noticed that most of the Dark Side's -Dem s-comments are lies---didn't the father of lies (Lucifer) get a credit from Alinsky in his book Rules for Radicals!?
Retorical question--the answer is YES!!!
Wasn't Hillary R a protegee of Alinsky?!!! And Bill Ayers?!!
C-CS

RightKlik said...

The Henry Waxman quote is astonishing...

Being Right said...

Great blog, I really loved this one.."'Bill is the greatest husband and father I know. No one is more faithful, true, and honest than he.'

- Hillary Clinton"

LMAO

Gayle said...

This is a great post, Z! Actually it was funny, at leasst to me. We know we have idiots running the country and I think most people who thought otherwise will soon be finding out they were wrong. Just wait until tax time next year when they get personal pain from what they elected. Problem is, so will we all.

FJ said...

Sorry, but I think you need to re-title this post, as demagoguery is NOT great oratory.

Elmers Brother said...

When asked what's wrong with letting local school districts decide how best to spend federal education dollars, President Clinton replied, "because it's not their money"

Clinton: "I can spend your money better than you can."
In a post-State of the Union speech in Buffalo, NY on January 20, 1999, Bill Clinton was asked why not a tax cut if we have a surplus. Clinton's response:
"We could give it all back to you and hope you spend it right... But ... if you don't spend it right, here's what's going to happen. In 2013 -- that's just 14 years away -- taxes people pay on their payroll for Social Security will no longer cover the monthly checks... I want every parent here to look at the young people here, and ask yourself, 'Do you really want to run the risk of squandering this surplus?' "
Source: Washington Times, January 21, 1999

"[I]t depends on how you define "alone" ... there were a lot of times when we were alone, but I never really thought we were."

You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say."
President William Clinton addressing the people of Philadelphia, May 28, 1993 in the Courtyard, City Hall, Philadelphia, PA. Someone in the audience who disagreed voiced an opinion,

In January 1994 Clinton made a trip to Europe. At that time there was some friction between the European leaders and the U.S. about troop deployments in Bosnia. While in Belgium, the European leaders and Clinton had a cocktail party. It was covered by CNN. On their 3:00PM (CST) broadcast, CNN with Frank Cezno showed a clip of the party. It showed Clinton talking to Helmut Kohl and saying, "I was thinking of you last night, Helmut, because I watched the sumo wrestling on television."

"Thanks for the poncho."
President Clinton said this when he was presented with the Romanian tri-color flag during his visit in July. The flag did have a head-sized hole in the middle... But flags with the centers ripped out are the norm in Romania these days. With holes where the hated communist emblem used to be, such flags symbolize the 1989 anti-Communist revolt that led to the establishment of democracy.

Associated Press 8/27/97

"The last time I checked, the Constitution said, 'of the people, by the people and for the people.' That's what the Declaration of Independence says."
President Bill Clinton, campaigning October 17, 1996. From a campaign speech given in California. Quoted in Investor's Business Daily October 25, 1996

Always On Watch said...

Well, quite the contrast between then and now.

Not a good contrast either, as far as the future of America goes.

Elmers Brother said...

"We can build a collective civic space large enough for all our separate identities, that we can be 'e pluribus unum' -- out of one, many. "
-- algore, in a January 1994 Milwaukee speech to the Institute of World Affairs. ('e pluribus unum' means out of many, one)


"In 50 years there will be no North Pole in the summertime."
-- algore on MTV's 'Choose or Lose' Town Hall Forum 9/26/2000


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

Mustang said...

Actually, I thought this was very funny; I also laughed at some of the idiotic things Bush said over the years. What this means is that unlike your friend Psi Bond, I have a nonpartisan sense of humor. Well, actually … that wasn’t a fair thing to say. If Psi Bond didn’t have a sense of humor, he would never have voted for Barack Obama and a straight democratic ticket in his home district.

Z said...

Mustang says "What this means is that unlike your friend Psi Bond, I have a nonpartisan sense of humor. Well, actually … that wasn’t a fair thing to say. If Psi Bond didn’t have a sense of humor, he would never have voted for Barack Obama and a straight democratic ticket in his home district."

Me, too, Mustang...you're so right about people having humor voting for obama but I'm afraid "my friend" (who is NOT a friend and, as you know, Mustang, that would take a lot for me to say) has no humor. Having said that, I can laugh NOW at Bush, but I literally cringe when I see Bush in old clips today on TV that back up a news story. It's awful. I do NOT miss his inarticulate manner of speaking; what I DO miss is his doing all he could to keep us safe (other than his ridiculously lax stance on the borders).

I heard a leftist pundit the other day harangue about Bush and Tenet and how they KNEW about 9/11 coming and didn't do anything. That's the first thing our Left's saying today in response to how they see obama's weakening us (but they can't let themselves 'go there') as if that helps the hideously weak and compromised situation obama has us in now......."fight dirty, don't protect the country, just kill the Right as hard as you can...Screw America, we have a conservative party to vanquish and a country to bring down in the doing..." That's probably a quote by Robt Gibbs but I don't attribute unless I've heard him say the exact words; I'm thinking this is his mantra every morning, don't you?

I'll take INARTICULATE over DANGEROUS any day. I laugh at the Bush stuff, too, it's the only reason I allowed psi bond to stay on the thread. Good for comic relief.

By the way.."thank GOD Bush was in the Bible every day as president" it's something our president could learn today, too. Good that he prayed for the people of Louisiana, too.

I hope obama prayed for our Americans in the Midwest as they suffered SO MUCH with all the flooding that hit them for months and months. Oh, wait...THAT'S RIGHT! They just turned their sleeves up AND GOT TO WORK HELPING THEMSELVES!! They needed prayer, but they helped God along with their recovery....I'd forgotten....................ifyougetmydrift

Z said...

Also, everyone....please check out Charles Schumer's QUOTES in the videos down my post thread...

Comments on that!? I'd appreciate a lefty response if it's dignified and factual. I'll delete others, thanks.

Anonymous said...

I kind've liked this one -
"You're either with us or against us" - George Bush.

Whatever one thinks of Bush's occasional inarticulate remarks, and some made me laugh too, one thing was clear. He was determined to keep us safe, and did so.

For Bush, "us" included the American people. I don't know about anyone else, but today I feel disenfranchised, and I don't think "us" includes the people. I feel like we have a target on our backs.

George Bush never apologized for America or her people, and never talked this country down. He was and is a patriot. Inarticulate or not.

The people in power today, and in the nineties didn't respect Americans.

"We will choose your doctor for you" - then President Clinton and Al Gore.

It was and is all about wresting power from the people and grabbing all they can for themselves. I do not exclude some Republicans from this either, but, the driving force comes from the left.


Z, as you know, PSI is someone I am familiar with as well, and as you also know, I concur with you. "Friend" is not the word I would use either. In fact the word troll comes to mind.

Mustang in his kind reference is a classy guy, something PSI would never understand.

Pris

Z said...

Thanks, Pris..that top quote is a good reminder and only one of the many things i DID admire about Bush.

psi bond keeps his comments and reposts them after I've deleted. It's really rather sad. FPM back up on working order yet? I'm honestly getting tired of deleting him and, as you all know, it's not my nature; I like civil discourse, but not more (or less) than that.

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beamish said...

"In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died — an entire town destroyed!" - Barack Obama, May 8, 2007, campaigning in Richmond, Virginia and mentioning a tornado that struck Greensburg, Kansas (only 12 people were killed)

Yes Obama, people missed a tornado that killed over three times as many people as the 9/11 attacks and only you had the heart to notice.

It is gems such as these that make the politically correct term for "mentally retarded" the word "leftist."

Susannah said...

Wow.

Just - wow.

shoprat said...

The Democrats are an embarrassment to this country and humanity.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Z,
Obama speaking at ND is wrong. I posted on my thoughts about it. This is Demspeak at its best.

Khaki Elephant said...

Somebody sent this to me as an email. It's beautiful!!!

Great call in dropping it out there for a wide audience.

Z said...

Psi Bond, you're going to have to open your own blog; I didn't open one for you to have a place to vent your liberal viewpoints, believe me.

I would like to entertain leftists here who like intelligent discourse but I've yet to really have any here who can't help but belittle and demean at the same time and, sadly, you're no exception....so, since it is my blog, I'll have to keep deleting you. It gives me no pleasure, believe me.

It's astonishing that you keep your comments and keep pasting them here over and over again, but it's getting silly at the same time. You keep it up, so will I, I promise.

Thanks.

psi bond said...

DaBlade: As for psi, get over the Bush hatred thing. What's the difference between a "slip of the tongue" from Bush and an Obama quote that gives you a peak into his hate- filled liberal socialist agenda? I have no hatred of Bush–––that is an aggressively promoted rightwing invention. As is Obama’s purported “hate- filled liberal socialist agenda”. Stating that he campaigned in all 57 U.S. territories (Obama explained: "I hope I said 100,000 people [the number of potential cyclone victims in Burma.] the first time instead of 100 million. I understand I said there were 57 states today. It's a sign that my numeracy is getting a little, uh…..") or expressions of concern for his children’s future are not necessarily socialist or hateful.

It is not hatred but clear-sightedness that recognizes Bush’s so-called “slips of the tongue” as indicative of an unfortunately frequent inability to articulate coherent thoughts in public.

psi bond said...

Mustang: If Psi Bond didn’t have a sense of humor, he would never have voted for Barack Obama and a straight democratic ticket in his home district.Contrary to your unfair personal allegation, my sense of humor does not include ever voting for candidates that I think are unfit for public office or hostile to the American values I hold.

psi bond said...

"What's a man got to do to get in the top fifty?" -Bill Clinton, reacting to
a survey of journalists that ranked the Monica Lewinsky scandal as the 53rd
most significant story of the century

"I don't know whether it's the finest public housing in America or the crown
jewel of the American penal system." -Bill Clinton, on the White House

"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I
didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again." -Bill Clinton

"Politics gives guys so much power that they tend to behave badly around
women. And I hope I never get into that." -Bill Clinton, to a woman friend
while he was a Rhodes scholar at Oxford

psi bond said...

For the full source of Z’s original post, see here
http://www.heraldextra.com/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,558/func,view/id,451492/catid,2/

or

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.outdoors.rv-travel/browse_thread/thread/e9d47b8aae1c4d37?fwc=1&pli=1

or hundreds of other sites.

Here are some more oratorical gems that they missed:

"There's no question about it. Wall Street got drunk -- that's one of the reasons I asked you to turn off the TV cameras -- it got drunk and now it's got a hangover. The question is how long will it sober up and not try to do all these fancy financial instruments." --George W. Bush, speaking at a private fundraiser, Houston, Texas, July 18, 2008 (Watch video clip)

"And they have no disregard for human life." --George W. Bush, on the brutality of Afghan fighters, Washington, D.C., July 15, 2008

"Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter." --George W. Bush, in parting words to British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and French President Nicolas Sarkozy at his final G-8 Summit, punching the air and grinning widely as the two leaders looked on in shock, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008

"Amigo! Amigo!" --George W. Bush, calling out to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Spanish at the G-8 Summit, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008

"Throughout our history, the words of the Declaration have inspired immigrants from around the world to set sail to our shores. These immigrants have helped transform 13small colonies into a great and growing nation of more than 300 people." --George W. Bush, Charlottesville, Va., July 4, 2008

"I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 26, 2008

"Your eminence, you're looking good." --George W. Bush to Pope Benedict XVI, using the title for Catholic cardinals, rather than addressing him as "your holiness," Rome, June 13, 2008

"Thank you, your Holiness. Awesome speech." --George W. Bush, to Pope Benedict, Washington, D.C., April 15, 2008 (Watch video clip)

"There's no question this is a major human disaster that requires a strong response from the Chinese government, which is what they're providing, but it also responds a compassionate response from nations to whom -- that have got the blessings, good blessings of life, and that's us." --George W. Bush, on relief efforts after a Chinese earthquake, Washington, D.C., June 6, 2008

"Let's make sure that there is certainty during uncertain times in our economy." -- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 2, 2008

"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008

"How can you possibly have an international agreement that's effective unless countries like China and India are not full participants?" --George W. Bush, Camp David, April 19, 2008

"So long as I'm the president, my measure of success is victory -- and success." --George W. Bush, on Iraq, Washington, D.C., April 17, 2008

"Soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen, and Coastmen -- Coast Guardmen, thanks for coming, thanks for wearing the uniform." --George W. Bush, at the Pentagon, March 19, 2008

"And so, General, I want to thank you for your service. And I appreciate the fact that you really snatched defeat out of the jaws of those who are trying to defeat us in Iraq." --George W. Bush, to Army Gen. Ray Odierno, Washington, D.C., March 3, 2008

"I'm oftentimes asked, What difference does it make to America if people are dying of malaria in a place like Ghana? It means a lot. It means a lot morally, it means a lot from a -- it's in our national interest." --George W. Bush, Accra, Ghana, Feb. 20, 2008

"I don't particularly like it when people put words in my mouth, either, by the way, unless I say it." --George W. Bush, Crawford, Texas, Nov. 10, 2007

"We're going to -- we'll be sending a person on the ground there pretty soon to help implement the malaria initiative, and that initiative will mean spreading nets and insecticides throughout the country so that we can see a reduction in death of young children that -- a death that we can cure." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 18, 2007

"All I can tell you is when the governor calls, I answer his phone." --George W. Bush, San Diego, Calif., Oct. 25, 2007

"I fully understand those who say you can't win this thing militarily. That's exactly what the United States military says, that you can't win this military." --George W. Bush, on the need for political progress in Iraq, Washington, D.C., Oct. 17, 2007

"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007 (Watch video clip)

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

“Uhh — I hear there's rumors on the, uhh, Internets that we're gonna have a — draft. We're not going to have a draft. Period.”— Second Presidential Debate, St. Louis, Missouri, Oct. 8, 2004

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —George W. Bush, Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

BOB SCHIEFFER: Suddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine. How did that happen?

Bush: Uhhh — Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn't allow contamidated medicine into our country.

[Yes, he actually said "contamidated", while taking credit for the UK government's intervention in preventing export of contaminated vaccine (and by the way, the "company out of England" is Chiron Corporation of Emeryville, California, which operates a vaccine production facility in England), Third Presidential Debate, Tempe, Arizona, Oct. 13, 2004]

beamish said...

Z,

It's sadistic of you to demand that leftists like Psi Bond leave intelligent comments.

Next you'll be taunting snails to pole vault.

psi bond said...

Watch out, beamish: Z deletes belittling and demeaning comments. Let’s have intelligent discourse instead.

beamish said...

Psi Bond,

How's that ethics investigation against Governor Palin going?

I don't think I've got much to worry about Z deleting anything I post. I don't see two of your quotes in her blog sidebar.

I'm game for an honest discussion, though.

Let's begin in good faith. Admit you're an imbecile.

beamish said...

...since you admit your belittling and demeaning comments have been deleted.

beamish said...

Psi Bond?

Take any of your two Bush quotes and pit them against the two quotes I put in this thread - John Kerry's suggesting the US give Iran highly enriched uranium to see if they'll build a nuclear weapon with it, or Obama's hallucination of thousands dead from a tornado in Kansas because part of a Kansas National Guard unit was deployed in Iraq.

We can bash Kerry a bit more because alongside that stupid remark in a Presidential debate, he and his staff had articulated in Newsweek magazine and other media his self-described "secret plan" to give the Iranian pyromaniacs nuclear matches to play with, apparently oblivious to the fact that Iran can watch Presidential debates and read magazines despite his efforts at "secrecy." Kerry's from Massachussetts, where imbecility is an artform.

But Obama, current President of these "57" United States, amplified the death toll from a tornado in Kansas by over 833 times the actual total to wax hysterical about Kansas having a small part of one of their National Guard units in Iraq instead of, I don't know, tornado patrol I guess.

Bush occasionally mangles grammatical structures and pronunciation.

Kerry is just the kind of weapons grade moron only Massachusetts can produce.

What's up with Obama? He makes Kerry look like a rocket surgeon.

Elmers Brother said...

I personally think it's fun to read and hear their mistakes...and I tend to give them a little more slack because they do have to talk a lot...but certainly no party has the corner on faux pas

Z said...

right, Elbro...I posted them because they're fun, but some are pretty dangerous, too! Scary to consider the lies. downright lies.

We do have to cut people slack; imagine speaking in front of millions off the cuff? it's easy to snarl your words and sound like a dope, but when people say things that are off the cuff, probably reflecting what they're really thinking off script, ...ouch!!

I remember Bush, for as absolutely inarticulate as he could be, was far better off script/teleprompter. That always kind of surprised me, I have to admit.

Elmers Brother said...

I agree some things that are said do make me apprehensive.

beamish said...

I can cut slack on off-the-cuff remarks.

Kerry's plan to give Iran highly enriched uranium "to see what they'd do with it" wasn't off-the-cuff - it was a centerpiece of his foreign policy ideas presented in several magazines and campaign presentations before he laid it out in a debate.

John Kerry really is that stupid.

And Obama hyper-inflating the tires on his anti-war campaign rhetoric to pull mileage out of the deaths of 12 people in a Kansas tornado to "ten thousand" illustrated much more than his callous disregard of reality. He used the "deaths of 10,000 people" and the "destruction of a town" (neither of which actually happened) as the gas in his windbag.

That's beyond a "off-the-cuff gaffe" or plain stupidity.

That's crack smoker rambling.

beamish said...

Psi Bond,

As far as Z and deleting comments, I've never known her to delete anyone's comments without acknowledging the deletion and the deleted commenter and the reasoning behind the deletion.

As she eloquently stated above:

"psi bond keeps his comments and reposts them after I've deleted. It's really rather sad. FPM back up on working order yet? I'm honestly getting tired of deleting him and, as you all know, it's not my nature; I like civil discourse, but not more (or less) than that."
...and in direct reponse to you:

"Psi Bond, you're going to have to open your own blog; I didn't open one for you to have a place to vent your liberal viewpoints, believe me. I would like to entertain leftists here who like intelligent discourse but I've yet to really have any here who can't help but belittle and demean at the same time and, sadly, you're no exception....so, since it is my blog, I'll have to keep deleting you. It gives me no pleasure, believe me. It's astonishing that you keep your comments and keep pasting them here over and over again, but it's getting silly at the same time. You keep it up, so will I, I promise. Thanks."It's rather obvious that you made an ass of yourself posting and reposting comments deleted for belittling and demeaning content.

That you repeatedly reposted your deleted comments reduces you to appearing as a spiteful, belligerent retro-adolescent rudely attempting to engage in a contest of wills with Z.

Though there may be some finer point debate on why your behave so boorishly, it isn't much of a stretch to diagnose your condition as imbecility.

Now, I can disagree with Z for miles and not get deleted. For example, she seems to hold the ridiculous and absurdly hopeful view that leftists such as yourself are actually capable of contributing intellectual content to anything, much less a blog comment thread.

You don't see me browbeating her with my own view.

But, I am willing to expound upon and argue cogently for my view.

For example, I could point out to Z that I asked you how the ethics investigation into Sarah Palin was going (a topic you were quite adamantly inane about a few months ago during election season) and your reply was zeroed in on unrelated approval polls and John McCain's silence on the 2012 race. (Let's not forget that Palin was cleared by both investigations - the first recommended legislative changes to Alaska's ethics laws because Palin didn't break any laws on the books, despite what YOU say.)

One wonders if I would have asked you about air conditioner vents if you would have responded with something about giraffe mating calls.

Well, I don't wonder, being rather concretely convinced that you're an imbecile.

But I respect Z's right to disagree.

beamish said...

Oh dang.

Psi Bond's comment I replied to above didn't pass Z's intelligent discourse "standards and practices" guidelines.

[I'm not going to mention snails and pole-vaulting again]

Z said...

Hi, Beamish.
The great thing about having your own blog, as you know, is that you can delete anyone for whatever reason.
YOU, I'd never delete. Matter of fact there's only one other commenter I have deleted, and only twice, I think.
Some of my leftists add something I like to keep around.
Some don't.

You ALWAYS do. But, then, you're MISTER BEAMISH!

beamish said...

Aw shucks.

Well, if I post anything deletion worthy, don't hesitate. I know you won't.

I recently deleted four and a half years of my own blog because I'm rather detached from the sound of my own "voice." I avoid self-important postering like the plague. I don't blog for an audience, but got one anyway.

Neurotically reposting copy-and-pasted deletions on anyone else's blog out of some warped sense of dedicated preseverance, as leftist trolls seem more predisposed to do than any other political grouping, is disturbingly similar to smeared excrement on a public restroom wall for someone else to clean up.

Wow. What a nice allegory of Alinskyism.

All that's missing is whines about "censorship" to delete with a mouse click.

Hopefully Psi Bond won't disappoint, hehehe.

Susannah said...

Hi Z! Hope you're doing okay today! Hi beamish. 'Don't believe we've met; though I'm looking forward to going to your blog.

psi bond: Z made a rather useful suggestion. Since you're fond of posting, why not start your own blog (instead of harassing our long-suffering friend Z)? It really is quite simple to set one up. You might find that you glean an unexpected following, like our friend beamish! Wouldn't that be icing on the cake? Good luck!

Z said...

Psi bond...I haven't acknowledged deleting you?!
Here's a tip: When your comment's gone?.....I deleted you as I said I would.

When anyone posts comments as long as yours, over and over, it's time for your own blog and I suggest you do it; my blog isn't here for your leftist rants. When you paste the same comments in, over and over again, it's clear you somehow need a venue, you feel you must be heard, but I'm sorry to remind you it certainly won't be here. You go for it....
I'd also suggest moveon or KOS to you, I'm sure they won't delete you. Odd thing is they won't take conservative comments at all, so I wouldn't make quite such a stink over the fact that I don't welcome you here.
Good luck!

beamish said...

Susannah,

I'm rebuilding my blog from the ground up, after a mass deletion and a few million false starts.

I wanted to get away from political blogging, but... I can't.

It's an addiction, hehehe.

Susannah said...

psi~
Get a blog. Leave Z alone. You've worn our your welcome. Where I come from that's bad manners.

psi bond said...

I have responded carefully to the points you offered, beamish, but it’s clear you are not interested in intelligent discourse. You only show a passion for browbeating, excoriating, and demeaning me. But Z likes that. She will not delete that. But contrary to what you say–––“As far as Z and deleting comments, I've never known her to delete anyone's comments without acknowledging the deletion”–––she has frequently deleted my comments and dissenting responses without leaving so much as a place marker. At the same time, your passionate responses to my deleted posts are retained.


Can you point to one comment that I have made that is intentionally belittling or demeaning to anyone here? You repeatedly assert that I have done so, yet you have not given any examples. IF YOU CAN DO SO, I WILL STOP POSTING HERE.


Sadly for you, you have an idée fixe about widespread “imbecility” that you are unable to delete from your mindset. Not that you have any desire to do so.


It’s hard to see any sense in why you are carrying on at length about Palin’s long forgotten ethics problems from last year and your badly mistaken version of Kerry’s Iran policy proposal of four years ago. That was a plan that Bush subsequently endorsed. In fact, the conservative paper The New York Sun, on January 27, 2006, wrote,


"President Bush's endorsement of a plan to end the nuclear standoff with Iran by giving the Islamic republic nuclear fuel for civilian use under close monitoring has left some of his supporters baffled.


One cause for the chagrin is that the proposal, which is backed by Russia, essentially adopts a strategy advocated by Mr. Bush's Democratic opponent in the 2004 election, Senator Kerry of Massachusetts.


'I have made it clear that I believe that the Iranians should have a civilian nuclear power program under these conditions: that the material used to power the plant would be manufactured in Russia, delivered under IAEA inspectors to Iran to be used in that plant, the waste of which will be picked up by the Russians and returned to Russia,' Mr. Bush said at a news conference yesterday. 'I think that is a good plan. The Russians came up with the idea and I support it,' he added.


In an interview published in the Wall Street Journal yesterday, Mr. Bush also said he proposed the idea to offer nuclear fuel to Iran and agreed with Moscow on the subject.


During the election campaign, Mr. Kerry urged that the international community offer Iran nuclear fuel in attempt to test whether Iran was serious about pursuing a peaceful nuclear energy program or intent on manipulating such a program to produce plutonium for weapons. 'We should call their bluff and organize a group of states that will offer the nuclear fuel they need for peaceful purposes and take back the spent fuel so they can't divert it to build a weapon,' Mr. Kerry said during a June 2004 speech in Florida."


Despite how stupid you have misrepresented it to be, beamish, the plan was promoted by the Bush administration in 2006. Will you now claim that everyone in the Bush administration was stupid? Were the 51% of the American people who voted for Bush in 2004 stupid, too?


If asked about air conditioner vents on a political blog like this one, I'd say they are up in the polls, especially in South Florida, where they are thought to be cool.

beamish said...

Psi Bond,

Can you point to one comment that I have made that is intentionally belittling or demeaning to anyone here?
No, I can't. Z has deleted them, as well as your subsequent neurotic repostings of them. I don't save copies of them - and wouldn't repost them for you if I did have copies of them. Z doesn't want your belittling and demeaning comments on her blog, and I'm not about to indulge your sick fantasies of having them reappear here again by reposting them in proxy for you.

You repeatedly assert that I have done so, yet you have not given any examples. IF YOU CAN DO SO, I WILL STOP POSTING HERE.Look on your hard drive for all the posts you've cut-and-pasted back here after they were deleted, imbecile.

As far as Bush's plan resembling Kerry's plan to supply Iran with nuclear fuel, you're absurdly misconstruing facts, as usual.

Kerry's 2004 plan was to have the UNITED STATES supply the nuclear fuel directly to Iran "to see what they would do with it."

Bush's 2006 plan was to give diplomatic blessing to Russia's offer to supply the nuclear fuel, as they built (and are building) Iran's nuclear reactors in the first place, and Russian technicians staff and monitor those sites directly.

Thanks for playing.

Remember to boil the Rice-O-Roni first.

psi bond said...

beamish: “As far as Bush's plan resembling Kerry's plan to supply Iran with nuclear fuel, you're absurdly misconstruing facts, as usual.”

My post to which you are responding has already been deleted two or three times.
The difference you claim amounts to a misconstrual of facts is merely a difference of detail in suppliers of the nuclear fuel. The strategy is essentially the same. The conservative New York Sun says as much in the paragraphs I quote. In fact, it observes that the similarity is troubling to Bush supporters. You are grasping at a straw to find some kind of difference.

If you have no memory of supposed belittling and demeaning comments from me, I will help you out in your search for them by reposting my comments to this thread. See below.

Keep the river on the right and the air conditioner vent open.

psi bond said...

beamish: I don't think I've got much to worry about Z deleting anything I post. I don't see two of your quotes in her blog sidebar. You evidently missed the irony in my comment.

beamish: Let's begin in good faith. Admit you're an imbecile....since you admit your belittling and demeaning comments have been deleted..A cursory reading of what I said above should suffice to show that there is no admission therein that I made belittling and demeaning comments. Although Z seems to believe I have done so, I did not make any such comments. It cannot reasonably be concluded that I made such an admission. Furthermore, if, contrary to what is true, such an admission had been made, it wouldn’t constitute sufficient proof of “imbecility”, however loosely defined. Hence I must conclude that you were merely making a giddy demeaning joke, instead of trying in good faith to facilitate intelligent discourse.

I will never have (nor do I wish to have) one of my comments in her sidebar, beamish, since I am not an irresponsible poster who makes frivolous blanket insults about liberals (or even conservatives).

As some posters here have fair-mindedly acknowledged, making public speeches all across America may be harder than is apparent to many observers. Wildly misstating numbers may be a result of that burden. Campaign-trail fatigue may also be a contributing factor. And even Bush has had his problems with numbers–––e.g., "Throughout our history, the words of the Declaration have inspired immigrants from around the world to set sail to our shores. These immigrants have helped transform 13 small colonies into a great and growing nation of more than 300 people." --George W. Bush, Charlottesville, Va., July 4, 2008. Which, although strictly true, is a jarringly absurd underestimate.

Moreover, a considerable number of Bush’s remarks betray a distressing inability to think clearly or above grade-school level. In the Oval Office or cabinet room or in international meetings, that can prove to be dangerous to the U.S. I am inclined to suspect it cannot be a coincidence that it is rightwingers in the blogosphere who are strenuously attempting to portray Obama as a poor inarticulate speaker while also trying to present Bush as being, off the top of his head, surprisingly (unexpectedly?) well-spoken.

In 2004, in a presidential debate, Kerry said, “With respect to Iran, the British, French, and Germans were the ones who initiated an effort without the United States, regrettably, to begin to try to move to curb the nuclear possibilities in Iran. I believe we could have done better. I think the United States should have offered the opportunity to provide the nuclear fuel, test them, see whether or not they were actually looking for it for peaceful purposes. If they weren't willing to work a deal, then we could have put sanctions together. The president did nothing.”

The original context for this widely-blogged-about remark shows that Kerry was not proposing providing to Iran nuclear bombs or weapons-grade fuel–––but providing them the rope to hang themselves with by making available uranium suitable for peaceful purposes. If they used it to produce enriched uranium, as in North Korea, concurrence on countermeasures to be applied would be much easier.

Concerning the ethics investigation of Governor Palin, about which you inquire, it is over. One investigation found her culpable, although she said it did not, and a subsequent one found her not culpable. However, following her nationwide notoriety, her approval rating among Alaskans has plummeted thirty-five points from its high and her disapproval rating among Alaskans has nearly quadrupled (as of May 5, 2009). Her former running mate, John McCain, refuses in interviews to name her as a promising presidential candidate for 2012.

psi bond said...

Watch out, beamish: Z deletes belittling and demeaning comments. Let’s have intelligent discourse instead.

psi bond said...

DaBlade: As for psi, get over the Bush hatred thing. What's the difference between a "slip of the tongue" from Bush and an Obama quote that gives you a peak into his hate- filled liberal socialist agenda?

I have no hatred of Bush–––that is an aggressively promoted rightwing invention. As is Obama’s purported “hate- filled liberal socialist agenda”. Stating that he campaigned in all 57 U.S. territories (Obama explained: "I hope I said 100,000 people [the number of potential cyclone victims in Burma.] the first time instead of 100 million. I understand I said there were 57 states today. It's a sign that my numeracy is getting a little, uh…..") or expressions of concern for his children’s future are not necessarily socialist or hateful.

It is not hatred but clear-sightedness that recognizes Bush’s so-called “slips of the tongue” as indicative of an unfortunately frequent inability to articulate coherent thoughts in public.

psi bond said...

Mustang: If Psi Bond didn’t have a sense of humor, he would never have voted for Barack Obama and a straight democratic ticket in his home district.

Contrary to your unfair personal allegation, my sense of humor does not include ever voting for candidates that I think are unfit for public office or hostile to the American values I hold.

psi bond said...

"What's a man got to do to get in the top fifty?" -Bill Clinton, reacting to
a survey of journalists that ranked the Monica Lewinsky scandal as the 53rd
most significant story of the century

"I don't know whether it's the finest public housing in America or the crown
jewel of the American penal system." -Bill Clinton, on the White House

"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I
didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again." -Bill Clinton

"Politics gives guys so much power that they tend to behave badly around
women. And I hope I never get into that." -Bill Clinton, to a woman friend
while he was a Rhodes scholar at Oxford

psi bond said...

For the full source of Z’s original post, see here
http://www.heraldextra.com/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,558/func,view/id,451492/catid,2/

or

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.outdoors.rv-travel/browse_thread/thread/e9d47b8aae1c4d37?fwc=1&pli=1

or hundreds of other sites.

Here are some more oratorical gems that they missed:

"There's no question about it. Wall Street got drunk -- that's one of the reasons I asked you to turn off the TV cameras -- it got drunk and now it's got a hangover. The question is how long will it sober up and not try to do all these fancy financial instruments." --George W. Bush, speaking at a private fundraiser, Houston, Texas, July 18, 2008 (Watch video clip)

"And they have no disregard for human life." --George W. Bush, on the brutality of Afghan fighters, Washington, D.C., July 15, 2008

"Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter." --George W. Bush, in parting words to British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and French President Nicolas Sarkozy at his final G-8 Summit, punching the air and grinning widely as the two leaders looked on in shock, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008

"Amigo! Amigo!" --George W. Bush, calling out to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Spanish at the G-8 Summit, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008

"Throughout our history, the words of the Declaration have inspired immigrants from around the world to set sail to our shores. These immigrants have helped transform 13small colonies into a great and growing nation of more than 300 people." --George W. Bush, Charlottesville, Va., July 4, 2008

"I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 26, 2008

"Your eminence, you're looking good." --George W. Bush to Pope Benedict XVI, using the title for Catholic cardinals, rather than addressing him as "your holiness," Rome, June 13, 2008

"Thank you, your Holiness. Awesome speech." --George W. Bush, to Pope Benedict, Washington, D.C., April 15, 2008 (Watch video clip)

"There's no question this is a major human disaster that requires a strong response from the Chinese government, which is what they're providing, but it also responds a compassionate response from nations to whom -- that have got the blessings, good blessings of life, and that's us." --George W. Bush, on relief efforts after a Chinese earthquake, Washington, D.C., June 6, 2008

"Let's make sure that there is certainty during uncertain times in our economy." -- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 2, 2008

"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008

"How can you possibly have an international agreement that's effective unless countries like China and India are not full participants?" --George W. Bush, Camp David, April 19, 2008

"So long as I'm the president, my measure of success is victory -- and success." --George W. Bush, on Iraq, Washington, D.C., April 17, 2008

"Soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen, and Coastmen -- Coast Guardmen, thanks for coming, thanks for wearing the uniform." --George W. Bush, at the Pentagon, March 19, 2008

"And so, General, I want to thank you for your service. And I appreciate the fact that you really snatched defeat out of the jaws of those who are trying to defeat us in Iraq." --George W. Bush, to Army Gen. Ray Odierno, Washington, D.C., March 3, 2008

"I'm oftentimes asked, What difference does it make to America if people are dying of malaria in a place like Ghana? It means a lot. It means a lot morally, it means a lot from a -- it's in our national interest." --George W. Bush, Accra, Ghana, Feb. 20, 2008

"I don't particularly like it when people put words in my mouth, either, by the way, unless I say it." --George W. Bush, Crawford, Texas, Nov. 10, 2007

"We're going to -- we'll be sending a person on the ground there pretty soon to help implement the malaria initiative, and that initiative will mean spreading nets and insecticides throughout the country so that we can see a reduction in death of young children that -- a death that we can cure." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 18, 2007

"All I can tell you is when the governor calls, I answer his phone." --George W. Bush, San Diego, Calif., Oct. 25, 2007

"I fully understand those who say you can't win this thing militarily. That's exactly what the United States military says, that you can't win this military." --George W. Bush, on the need for political progress in Iraq, Washington, D.C., Oct. 17, 2007

"My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions." --George W. Bush, The Decider, Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007 (Watch video clip)

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

“Uhh — I hear there's rumors on the, uhh, Internets that we're gonna have a — draft. We're not going to have a draft. Period.”— Second Presidential Debate, St. Louis, Missouri, Oct. 8, 2004

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —George W. Bush, Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

BOB SCHIEFFER: Suddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine. How did that happen?

Bush: Uhhh — Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn't allow contamidated medicine into our country.

[Yes, he actually said "contamidated", while taking credit for the UK government's intervention in preventing export of contaminated vaccine (and by the way, the "company out of England" is Chiron Corporation of Emeryville, California, which operates a vaccine production facility in England), Third Presidential Debate, Tempe, Arizona, Oct. 13, 2004]

psi bond said...

Please note, beamish, that my reply to your reply to my several-times deleted reply is above, unless it’s been deleted in the meantime.

Watch out for the elephants in the room.

beamish said...

On the likely occurance that this post will immediately follow my previous post reminding PsiBond to boil his Rice-O-Roni consolation prize before consuming it after Z deletes yet another salvo of PsiBond's reposting of seven of his deleted comments, I'll present my case for PsiBond's imbecility one final time:

PsiBond scribbled:

Please note, beamish, that my reply to your reply to my several-times deleted reply is above, unless it’s been deleted in the meantime.

Watch out for the elephants in the room.
Z said to PsiBond in an earlier post:

"I don't welcome you here."Susannah previously noted to PsiBond:

"Get a blog. Leave Z alone. You've worn our your welcome. Where I come from that's bad manners."I'll not further belabor the paradox of trying to convince an imbecile that he's a imbecile.

beamish said...

To be fair, and because I do acquiesce Z's desire for civil discourse with the intellectually absent when it pleases me to do so, allow me to encapsulate yet another PsiBond "gem" and respond to it in kind:

beamish: “As far as Bush's plan resembling Kerry's plan to supply Iran with nuclear fuel, you're absurdly misconstruing facts, as usual.”
psibond: "My post to which you are responding has already been deleted two or three times.
The difference you claim amounts to a misconstrual of facts is merely a difference of detail in suppliers of the nuclear fuel. The strategy is essentially the same. The conservative New York Sun says as much in the paragraphs I quote. In fact, it observes that the similarity is troubling to Bush supporters. You are grasping at a straw to find some kind of difference."
The United States does not have diplomatic relations with the terrorist-sponsoring Islamic Republic of Iran.

The Russian Federation does have diplomatic relations with the terrorist-sponsoring Islamic Republic of Iran.

John Kerry's self described "secret plan" would have had the United States GIVE nuclear fuel to a terrorist-sponsoring nation it has no diplomatic relations with, to discover if they really intended to "wipe Israel off the map" with their "peaceful energy program."

Bush's plan acknowledged Russia's diplomatic and nuclear technology trade ties with Iran, as well as Russia's pre-existing controls of that nuclear trade (they are the source of Iran's nuclear fuel to begin with).

The United States does not control Russia's diplomatic or trade policies. Russia has its own economic and national security interests in continuing to be Iran's supplier of nuclear fuel.

The difference between Kerry's and Bush's plans?

Kerry would give nuclear fuel to a state sponsor of terrorism and hope for the best.

Bush acknowledged the reality that Russia could adequately oversee and monitor the status of Russian nuclear fuel delivered to Iranian reactors built, maintained, and operated by Russians. In other words, the status quo.

Iran rejects this (primarily Russian) control over the supply of their nuclear fuel, and seeks to process its own uranium - which raises alarm in the international community because of its status as a international terrorism sponsor (including Chechen rebels in Russia), its threatening belligerency towards Israel, and that uranium enrichment processes are a key part of making nuclear weapons.

The difference is Bush's plan acknowledged geopolitical realities, and Kerry's plan was fucking goofy.

psi bond said...

If the U.S. agrees to let the Russians be the suppliers of the nuclear fuel, the process can only be less transparent to us. Since the strategy is the same––– that is, to monitor it and see what Iran does with it–––the quality of monitoring, which is crucial to the plan, is likely to be less trustworthy when less transparent.

“The United States does not have diplomatic relations with the terrorist-sponsoring Islamic Republic of Iran,” you say. But that is no problem. It wasn’t a problem when the White House wanted to sell arms to Iran during the days of the Iran-Contra Scandal. The obstacles you bring up are paper thin.

Kerry would give nuclear fuel to a state sponsor of terrorism and hope for the best.

Bush would allow Russia to give nuclear fuel for civilian use to a state sponsor of terrorism and hope for the best.


Bush acknowledged the reality that Russia could adequately oversee and monitor the status of Russian nuclear fuel delivered to Iranian reactors built, maintained, and operated by Russians. In other words, the status quo.

A plan endorsed by Bush to end the nuclear standoff with Iran by giving the Islamic republic nuclear fuel for civilian use under close monitoring has left some of his supporters baffled, as the New York Sun reported. In other words, not the status quo. “One cause for the chagrin [among Bush supporters] is that the proposal, which is backed by Russia, essentially adopts a strategy advocated by Mr. Bush's Democratic opponent in the 2004 election, Senator Kerry of Massachusetts.” In other words, the status ante.

“A top foreign policy aide on Kerry’s presidential campaign, Rand Beers, said he was pleased by Mr. Bush's statements, but disappointed in how long it took the administration to warm to the concept. ‘They are coming around to it as sort of a late-in-the-game, last-gasp kind of idea,’ Mr. Beers told The New York Sun. ‘While it's a Pyrrhic success, the president has taken a lot of our ideas.’”

“Another analyst questioned Mr. Bush's willingness to join forces with Russia in such a high-stakes proposal. ‘It's rather trusting of the Russians, who don't exactly have a great record of late of keeping their promises on anything,’ a speechwriter and foreign policy adviser under President Clinton, Robert Boorstin, said. He suggested the administration's new flexibility on the issue was prompted by the recent transition of a prominent foreign policy hawk, John Bolton, from the State Department to the post of American ambassador to the United Nations. ‘It's probably one of the most glaring areas where I see a difference between a pre- and post-Bolton State Department,’ Mr. Boorstin said.”

The difference is Bush's plan acknowledged geopolitical realities, and Kerry's plan was fucking goofy.

Trusting Russians to monitor how Iranians use nuclear fuel is goofy. Russia has exhibited a desire to work for its own interests, which, not surprisingly, are different than those of the United States, something that has to be accounted for in any plan based on geopolitical pragmatics.

Softening your opinion by replacing the vicious epithet “stupid” with the cartoonish term “goofy” is tame–––is lame, beamish.

Watch out for the falling stars!

psi bond said...

I know it’s futile to point out to you that the only one who is making belittling and demeaning comments here is you, beamish. There is one set of rules here for you and another for me. Not that I would resort to such comments if I were allowed to do so.

beamish: On the likely occurance [sic] that this post will immediately follow my previous post reminding PsiBond to boil his Rice-O-Roni consolation prize before consuming it after Z deletes yet another salvo of PsiBond's reposting of seven of his deleted comments, I'll present my case for PsiBond's imbecility one final time.

A joke that you think needs explanation is not an authentic joke, or a serious one.

I appreciate your attempting to explain why you believe the Russians are more to be trusted than we are when giving nuclear fuel to Iran. But I doubt even Reagan would buy that.

Thanks for being almost civil.

Z said...

Psi Bond..everybody here would be more civil if you'd understand that the constant bashing of Conservatives at this site IS belittling and demeaning.

THIS is a CONSERVATIVE blog, MY BLOG, an avowedly Conservative site and proud to be so.
You come here and point out every little nasty thing you can find against conservatives and you think I'm supposed to welcome it?

I have fantastic readers here and none of us comes here to hear what we can hear all day long on the mainstream media from you, trust me.

Goofy/silly Bashing/belittling

it's all the same thing.

beamish said...

PsiBond,

Trusting Russians to monitor how Iranians use nuclear fuel is goofy.How so?

Russia already supplies Iran with nuclear fuel, Russia built Iran's nuclear reactors, Russian technicians staff and monitor the nuclear reactors in Iran.

They know how their nuclear fuel is used in Iranian nuclear reactors, and they know when and if the nuclear fuel is spent and needs replacing, as a part of their long-term arrangement with Iran that Iran seeks to break from with their efforts to enrich uranium themselves.

Should we trust Russia to monitor Iran's current use of Russian nuclear fuel?

I suppose there's a debate point there. But, we HAVE trusted Russia's supply of fuel to and Russia's operation of Russian-built nuclear reactors on Iranian soil for almost 20 years now.

Bush endorsed a proposal from RUSSIA which was also backed by other nations in the six-party talks to continue the processing of fuel for Iranian nuclear reactors in 2005, a year before your obscure New York Sun tabloid article.

Read side-by-side with John Kerry's nebulous campaign literature form 2004, the Russian proposal endorsed by the international community including the United States under Bush has nothing whatsoever to do with John Kerry's "proposal."

I'm finished educating you on this matter, Psibond. As a leftist, I'm 100% positive you will present me with other opportunities to reveal your ignorance and imbecility on an infinite number of subjects.

But, I suggest you find another venue than Z's blog to offer me those opportunities.

I'm sure you've noticed your welcome here was revoked.

psi bond said...

Trusting Russians to monitor how Iranians use nuclear fuel is goofy.How so ?

Because, as many rightwingers have noted, the Russians have a poor record of honoring agreements.

Russia already supplies Iran with nuclear fuel, Russia built Iran's nuclear reactors, Russian technicians staff and monitor the nuclear reactors in Iran.

That means they know well how to falsify information.

They know how their nuclear fuel is used in Iranian nuclear reactors, and they know when and if the nuclear fuel is spent and needs replacing, as a part of their long-term arrangement with Iran that Iran seeks to break from with their efforts to enrich uranium themselves.

And you are saying we should have complete confidence that the Russians will tell us what they know.

Should we trust Russia to monitor Iran's current use of Russian nuclear fuel?

That is the question: To trust or not to trust.

I suppose there's a debate point there. But, we HAVE trusted Russia's supply of fuel to and Russia's operation of Russian-built nuclear reactors on Iranian soil for almost 20 years now.

It's much more than a debate point. It is a life and death question. If we "HAVE trusted" them all along, what are we worried about now?

Bush endorsed a proposal from RUSSIA which was also backed by other nations in the six-party talks to continue the processing of fuel for Iranian nuclear reactors in 2005, a year before your obscure New York Sun tabloid article.

You are demeaning a conservative newspaper. And there are related articles in the Wall Street Journal and other conservative papers.

Read side-by-side with John Kerry's nebulous campaign literature form 2004, the Russian proposal endorsed by the international community including the United States under Bush has nothing whatsoever to do with John Kerry's "proposal."

That's a misleading comparison. Analysts on both sides of the aisle have observed that the two plans are similar. In fact, one analyst who faulted the Kerry plan in 2004 was sufficiently upset by the similarity to say he was disillusioned by Mr. Bush's endorsement of the Russian initiative. "This seems to me to be a giant step backwards in terms of clarity," the vice president for policy at the American Foreign Policy Council, Ilan Berman, said. "It's always disheartening when those of us who bashed his political opponent realize this is going to be the case," said Mr. Berman, who warned in 2004 of "devastating consequences" if Mr. Kerry's plan was adopted.

I'm finished educating you on this matter, Psibond. As a leftist, I'm 100% positive you will present me with other opportunities to reveal your ignorance and imbecility on an infinite number of subjects.

What you imagine to be your educating efforts have glossed over the widespread understanding that we have no good reason to trust the Russians now to act in our best interests. Every ordinary American knows that, for most of recent history, Russia has been antagonistic toward the U.S.

beamish said...

Psi Bond,

Your "don't trust the Ruskies" spiel is comical.

You successfully and irrevocably convinced me that you're an imbecile earlier in the thread. Give it rest already.

The Russians themselves do not trust Iranian efforts to enrich their own uranium, beyond the mere tangible benefits of having been paid by Iran to enrich uranium for them for nearly 20 years. The distrust over Iran's intentions is why Russia is a party involved in the multi-national negotiations with Iran to continue the practice of outsourcing uranium enrichment.

Understand? Even Russia doesn't trust Iran's plans to enrich its own nuclear fuel.

The United States and Russia are on common ground of belief here. Both believe Iran can not be trusted to enrich uranium for itself.

John Kerry's "lets (the US) give them enriched uranium and see what they do with it duh duh drool" plan doesn't even have a monitoring regime affixed to the offer as is what stands with the current status quo of Russia providing the fuel for the reactors Russia is operating in Iran.

Your tireless crusade to reform John Kerry into something other than an utter moron is pricelessly hilarious.

Please, Psi Bond, find another way to convince me you're an idiot. This one is becoming passe.

psi bond said...

Your "don't trust the Ruskies" spiel is comical.

Your supposedly final "educating" effort to prove the Russians are trustworthy is comical.

You successfully and irrevocably convinced me that you're an imbecile earlier in the thread. Give it rest already.

You have persuasively convinced me that you should not be hired as a foreign policy consultant. Except maybe at Fox, where they'd laugh at you.

The Russians themselves do not trust Iranian efforts to enrich their own uranium, beyond the mere tangible benefits of having been paid by Iran to enrich uranium for them for nearly 20 years. The distrust over Iran's intentions is why Russia is a party involved in the multi-national negotiations with Iran to continue the practice of outsourcing uranium enrichment.

Russia's involvement in talks is a diplomatic offensive to show it is not deceptive and not hostile to the interests of the West. But its displeasure with future U.S. or NATO actions could induce Russia to apply pressure by means of a previously secret Iranian bomb. The degree of training of Iranian engineers was kept unclear.

Understand? Even Russia doesn't trust Iran's plans to enrich its own nuclear fuel.

Understand? It is in Russia's interest to create the appearance of distrusting Iran's intentions and sharing the West's concerns. The Bush plan was originally a Russian proposal from Putin.

The United States and Russia are on common ground of belief here. Both believe Iran can not be trusted to enrich uranium for itself.

Iran can be Russia's nuclear-armed proxy in the geopolitical game if what now seems to be common ground falls through.

John Kerry's "lets (the US) give them enriched uranium and see what they do with it duh duh drool" plan doesn't even have a monitoring regime affixed to the offer as is what stands with the current status quo of Russia providing the fuel for the reactors Russia is operating in Iran.

That's the Rush Limbaugh version of Kerry's plan. Close monitoring was always a key element in his plan to see what Iran's true intentions are.

Your tireless crusade to reform John Kerry into something other than an utter moron is pricelessly hilarious.

Your relentless jihad to portray Kerry's plan as (at first) stupid and now (just) goofy is not stupid beamish, but hopelessly goofy.

Please, Psi Bond, find another way to convince me you're an idiot. This one is becoming passe.

I know that , as you said in your previous post, this is your last try to prove you're not a foreign policy expert. Congratulations on succeeding to do that brilliantly, beamish.

beamish said...

Psi Bond,

There's Russians under your bed, out to get you.

psi bond said...

beamish: There's Russians under your bed, out to get you.

Many rightwingers have told me that.

beamish said...

PsiBond,

I'm sure many more right-wingers have accurately pointed out that you're an imbecile.

psi bond said...

beamish: I'm sure many more right-wingers have accurately pointed out that you're an imbecile.

If now you're going to change the focus to my humble self and try to swiftboat me, I must admit that, although I don't like to boast, many more rightwingers have not said I'm an imbecile, but rather have concluded the opposite. Very rarely, in my experience, have I seen a rightwinger depend so helplessly as you on such a phony debating tactic.

Let me point out this: Intelligent discourse is not calling someone an imbecile.

beamish said...

PsiBond,

Let me point out this: Intelligent discourse is not calling someone an imbecile.I didn't call "someone" an imbecile. I called an imbecile an imbecile. I called YOU an imbecile.

I don't use such terms lightly.

The 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany all endorsed the Russian proposal to have Russia enrich uranium for Iran during the stage of enrichment in which bomb-grade materials can be made, so that Iran has no chance to make bomb-grade materials for atomic / nuclear weaponry.

But according to you, Russia's secretly in league with Iran to kill us all.

You wouldn't know intelligent discourse if it marched a marathon up your ass to find your head.

psi bond said...

Let me point out this: Intelligent discourse is not calling someone an imbecile.

I didn't call "someone" an imbecile. I called an imbecile an imbecile. I called YOU an imbecile.

I am someone, beamish. You called someone an imbecile. When the term occurs in political discourse, its usage is to denote someone you want to insult whose ideas are different than your own

I don't use such terms lightly.

You use such terms as a crutch when you know you haven't a rational argument to support your view.

The 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany all endorsed the Russian proposal to have Russia enrich uranium for Iran during the stage of enrichment in which bomb-grade materials can be made, so that Iran has no chance to make bomb-grade materials for atomic / nuclear weaponry.

But why do you believe having the United States do that is stupid or goofy, or goofy and stupid?

But according to you, Russia's secretly in league with Iran to kill us all.

No, although many rightwing bloggers claim that, some policy analysts think officially ratifying a role for Russia in the Middle East is an opportunity for Russia to acquire leverage over the West.

You wouldn't know intelligent discourse if it marched a marathon up your ass to find your head.

Unwittingly, beamish, you have made it clear that you are incapable of discourse that is intelligent, or even civil.

beamish said...

The 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany all endorsed the Russian proposal to have Russia enrich uranium for Iran during the stage of enrichment in which bomb-grade materials can be made, so that Iran has no chance to make bomb-grade materials for atomic / nuclear weaponry.But why do you believe having the United States do that is stupid or goofy, or goofy and stupid?Chain-of-custody issues:

Russia can cross its southern border into Iran to deliver Russian enriched nuclear fuel to Russian built nuclear reactors staffed by Russian technicians.

The US can deliver nuclear fuel and hope Iran doesn't centrifuge it further into bomb-grade material instead of fueling a nuclear reactor with it.

Do you need it spelled out in monosyllabic words?

Russia has the opportunity (and the motive) to keep Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions in check, as they are on-site with Iran's nuclear reactors and know what's needed, used, coming, and going.

The rest of the UN Security Council plus Germany agrees.

As does Iran in their rejection of the proposal, which is a likely sign that Iran has more in mind for its centrifuge enrichment program than mere fueling nuclear reactors.

John Kerry's proposal is stupid AND goofy for its lack of chain-of-custody monitoring for the nuclear material he proposed giving away to Iran. That is also its key difference with the Russian proposal.

The question is, do you trust Russians to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear-armed power with their closely monitored nuclear fuel deliveries to reactors they operate, or do you trust Iran not to become a nuclear armed power with nuclear fuel John Kerry gives them "to see what they do with it."

I feel like I've answered this reworded yet unclever question enough times in this thread for anyone with reading comprehension skills to grasp.

I'm done. Thread dead.

psi bond said...

How could we see what Iran intends to do with the nuclear fuel, if Kerry’s plan, which was developed in consultation with foreign policy experts, did not provide for chain-of-custody monitoring. To conclude it is goofy and stupid one has to blithely assume utter fools put the plan together.

“During the [2004] election campaign, Mr. Kerry urged that the international community offer Iran nuclear fuel in [an] attempt to test whether Iran was serious about pursuing a peaceful nuclear energy program or intent on manipulating such a program to produce plutonium for weapons.”

Isn’t Russia in the international community, beamish?

"We should call their bluff and organize a group of states that will offer the nuclear fuel they need for peaceful purposes and take back the spent fuel so they can't divert it to build a weapon," Mr. Kerry said during a June 2004 speech in Florida.

As it happens, Iran promptly issued a rejection of presidential candidate John Kerry’s plan. Iranian Foreign ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said it would be "irrational" for Iran to put its nuclear program in jeopardy by relying on supplies from abroad. “We have the technology (to make nuclear fuel) and there is no need for us to beg from others," Asefi told a weekly news conference.

In other words, he thought it was foolish for the same reasons as Bush’s similar plan in 2006.

I am done, too, beamish. The operating motto you live by seems to be: See what you expect to see.

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