Here are the FOURTH AND FIFTH ANSWERS in our continuing series with Frogburger. Thanks for your previous support and amazing comments! For those of you who didn't see the first three answers or what prompted this interview series, please click HERE and HERE, make sure you read the excellent comments there and then come back and read these two....I know you'll appreciate this French new- American's insights:4. Did you actually like McCain enough to vote for him or disliked Obama's policies so much you couldn't vote for him? And, when did you become a citizen?
I became a US citizen in 2006 so I was able to vote for the primary and presidential elections.
In the primary, I voted for Ron Paul because of my libertarian streak and my beliefs in Austrian economic theories.
For my first presidential election, I voted for McCain but made my final choice while in line at the polling place. I was not very enthusiastic about him and was very disappointed when he decided to vote for the bank bailout and created all that drama about going back to Washington to save the day! He missed a major opportunity to inform the citizens about the content of the bill, which is anti-democratic in nature.
Unlike my wife, I was also not convinced by Sarah Palin, despite her executive experience in Alaska. Obama and her were rookies and the criticisms for lack of experience were justified on both sides.
There was no way I could vote for Obama because of his Marxist ideas. When I learned he may have once belonged to the Socialist New Party that was it. (Just use Google!)
In general, I cannot vote for people whose sole message is to defend the oppressed, the poor, the minorities and the victims, even though it sounds wonderful and generous. The reason is simple: people who get elected with those message have no interest in getting people out of their situation. Indeed, they would shoot themselves in the foot and lose their electorate.
Do you think the Socialist Party has improved people’s lives in France when it got elected in the 80s? Poverty hasn’t improved in France despite the welfare state. Yet the Socialist Party still blames globalization and free market for creating poverty. Why would they change the message? Their “market shares “depend on maintaining the lower and lower-middle classes. At least it seems as though the French citizens are not getting fooled anymore. The Socialist Party is in disarray and may not get 20% of votes at the European election.
5. You told me your American wife was a liberal but has changed. What do
you think really convinced her to think more like you do? Was there one
issue which finally persuaded her or did just opening her eyes to various
things make an impact more?
My wife used to be registered as a Democrat but I don’t think she ever was a Liberal. She switched side when she realized how extreme the Democratic Party leadership was getting.
Since I met her she has gotten very informed about various topics she had never studied in school, especially economics. I also briefed her many times on the subject as I studied it for 4 years in high school and college. She’s realized – through facts – that lefty ideas, as generous as they seem, don’t work (debt, unemployment rates, brain drain). I highly recommend Thomas Sowell’s books in this regard. The shallow thinking of the left as understanding economic principles is demolished in those books, and I wish pseudo-journalists on big networks would actually know a lot more about economics before emitting their opinion.
She’s also very independent and cannot imagine a French-like system in which people would give their freedom away for some economic security provided by the government. Even though her parents were middle lower class, her upbringing was typical about America. It was about making a better life for oneself through hard work without government intervening in your life.
As someone from a modest family, she has also realized the hypocrisy of the anti-bourgeois left that want to control CEOs’ salaries while behaving like aristocrats who despise Middle America.
When we met, one of the first things I mentioned in my attempt to explain my dislike for the left was the hypocrisy of the socialist leaders in France. They would raise taxes but, very much like Geithner, would try not to pay theirs. Fabius, who was Minister of the Economy under Mitterrand in the 80s, actually passed a law to give tax breaks to antiques dealers because his father was one. She now realizes this hypocrisy is also typical of the American left.
But I’m not the only one who convinced her. Things really changed for her when Ron Paul ran in the primary. His message really resonated in her and she’s the one who actually made me interested in him. She read his books and started getting even more informed on issues when the GOP Primary started. For the first time in her life, she really paid attention.
And by just paying attention, reading and getting knowledgeable, she turned into a Conservative.
Z: Thanks, Frogburger, and thank Mrs. Frogburger for us. Please, readers, leave a comment for our French friend. I hope you're finding it as interesting as I am. I gave him 18 questions and I'm reading the answers as he sends them back, only just before you do.
z
65 comments:
who knew that a frenchman could be so smart...he he... in all seriousness that was well done z!! good series there!!!... i hope you can keep it up....
Way to go Frogburger! I always look forward to your interviews with Z.
Frogburger,
I'd be interested in reading what foreign policy and national security concerns (if any) you had during the primaries, balanced against your social and economic policy concerns.
In my opinion, foreign policy and national security were Ron Paul's weakest areas (opposition to and second guessing the war in Iraq, and wanting to issue letters of marque to have mercenaries fight terrorists), and those are my strongest concerns.
I also think that the Republican Party's primary elections were flawed. Most of the country hadn't even voted in their respective state primaries by the time it became apparent that McCain had all the delegates needed to win the nomination.
I had some unease about McCain as our candidate, but I had supported him in the 2000 primaries against Bush.
In the 2008 primaries, I wanted to vote for Duncan Hunter, but he dropped out of the race before my state held its primary, and my second choice, Alan Keyes, wasn't on the ballot. At that time it was pretty much a 3-way split between McCain, Romney, and Huckabee.
I chose the less liberal of the 3 - McCain.
Beamish,
To be very honest, foreign policy, unlike economics, cannot be analyzed through stats and my knowledge isn't great in the matter. So I may be off base sometimes.
I agreed with Ron Paul that maintaining a modern empire is costly and has its risks. I take that from the French history. No one can deny that it creates anti-American sentiment like it created anti-French sentiment in Africa.
I also tend to think in many occasions that having troops in non strategic places is a mistake.
And I'd rather see military buildup at home versus thinning the army. If I were president, and in a perfect world where there are no special interests, I'd withdraw from many places and if something happened, I would retaliate in a major way.
But this is not as simple and I'm just afraid our involvement in many places made it more complicated.
Bin Laden used to work with the CIA against the Soviets. And now he's against us. We used Saddam in the war against Iran. Then we got rid of him.
What's next in this history of high risk foreign policy?
I can't answer that and will remain skeptical in the matter. Only History will tell.
There was no way I could vote for Obama because of his Marxist ideas.
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I'm still waiting for one of these Ron Paul tyros to tell me how someone can appoint Larry Summers as his chief economic front man (Geithner is just Summers' cabana boy) and be considered a Marxist.
Is Summers a big fan of the labor theory of value? A devout Hegelian? Does he reject commodity fetishism?
Let us know.
Ducky, you are either naive or stupid.
Here's what I believe. Our governmentS are now working for the bank and the Federal Reserve. Those are the biggest lobby. Therefore they name those people. Obama got more money during the campaign from those people than McCain.
So it doesn't prove anything as far as Obama not being a Marxist.
Again your lefty mind that wants to simplify things is misleading you.
That goes back to the left being hypocrites by the way. They criticize "bourgeois" but get money from the biggest lobby on the planet: the banks. They get elected on a message blaming predatory lenders, yet they take money from them. They talk about increasing taxes, yet they don't pay for theirs.
If I was applying your logic to my life I would be a Liberal since most of my friends are Democrats or Liberals. (I'm in CA.) Therefore I must not be a Conservative.
Were you raised by the Sophists, Ducky?
Frogburger, you didn't address the question.
You do seem to understand Marx's contention that capitalism must necessarily go through periods of severe crisis.
So can you answer the question. I notice the ad hominems, z runs a censored site so I'm not allowed to respond in kind.
I'll leave it at your being an economics tyro who can't answer the question.
Ron Paul - bore me later.
On the FED, I hope the Audit the FED bill will pass. I got this email today
"Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed bill is now up to 186 cosponsors!
That means over 40% of the entire House of Representatives is currently signed onto HR 1207."
A bi-partisan effort to audit this private institution run by the government is welcome.
At least Ron Paul has the courage to fight for what he believes in. If the left was really for the people, they would have audited the Fed a long time ago. Instead they'd rather nationalize the banks to stir the economy a certain way or work closely with Soros and the Fed, depriving us from our liberties.
Frogburger,
Bin Laden used to work with the CIA against the Soviets.
Actually, this is a myth, and if you think about it, the idea is logistically ridiculous.
The CIA had plenty of native Afghan resistance fighters with knowledge of both the geography and languages of their land to recruit and train to fight the Soviets, and that is precisely what they did.
Osama Bin Laden's role in fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan was largely as a financier for Arab jihadis-for-hire, and their presence in Afghanistan had no real impact on the Soviet occupation at all, as compared to the heavy lifting the Afghan mujihadeen were doing.
What major things did Bin Laden's Arab groups do against the Soviets in Afghanistan? In a word, nothing. Afghan mujihadeen universally regarded them as useless or worse. Some accounts were downright practical, but can be a little racist sounding. "What use are dark-skinned Arab fighters that can't speak the local languages in a guerilla warfare among light-skinned Afghans?"
The idea that the CIA gave Bin Laden support, training, or even money is silly on its face.
"Is Summers a big fan of the labor theory of value? A devout Hegelian? Does he reject commodity fetishism?"
Wow you sound so smart and I'm going to say I have no clue about Summers. At least I admit my ignorance.
"You do seem to understand Marx's contention that capitalism must necessarily go through periods of severe crisis."
Yes I know that. And that is why I think Obama takes actions based on a Marxist analysis. He wants to correct those crises instead of accepting capitalism with its flaws.
By defending the unions so much he also shows that his thought process is Marxist based. The workers are exploited and must be helped
Beamish, you may very well have more knowledge on this matter than I have.
Overall I am an isolationist. But it's now too late. The mess has been created and being isolationist is impossible.
We'll have to wait for the course of History. France lost its empire and its influence on the world stage died, then it died internally.
I am afraid the same thing will happen to the US if we stretch ourselves too much. We'll lose big at thome
By the way that's the interesting link I had found on Obama's involment with socialist ideas.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/08/will-msm-report-obama-membership-socialist-new-party
And socialist is Marxist-based, Ducky. Otherwise it wouldn't be socialism.
Unless Obama is an opportunist. And then he has no principles. It's actually worse I believe.
Blogger Z said...
Hi Pat...there are 14 more questions coming up in the next couple of weeks, thanks to Frogburger!
Jingo..thanks.
Beamish, thanks for the good conversation...really good to have this give and take.
Massoud was hated by bin Laden and some consider his assassination as osama's first strike of 9/11......I'm no prophet, but I distinctly remember thinking "OH, man, this is really a bad hit, NOW what?" when I heard he'd been killed; I often wonder what sixth sense told me something major would happen because I wasn't interested at all in that part of the world until 9/11 happened, really. Looking back at it after I always wonder what told me something was coming......
Ducky... I, like FB, also believe you're naive...I'd not say you're 'stupid' but he's better on economics than I am. He could be right! At least he admits when he doesn't know something.
Frogburger,
Isolationism only works if your prepared to blow up all the bridges and be found dead frozen or starved in the mountains wearing a nice watch and holding an "army knife" with a corkscrew.
Z,
Massoud is one of my heroes.
Beamish,
If you read my posts, you'll see that isolationism is an idealistic wish of mine. I know this is not doable.
However when foreign policy is driven by other elements than the interest of the people in the country, that is extremely dangerous.
Unfortunately us small citizens don't have much of a say or control in those things.
All I know is that it'll backlash. Rome fell on too much expansion. France is nothing on the world stage now because it stretched itself too thin with colonies. So did England. The US will be the next one. Then China will rise again and fall again.
I accept it the way it is. My isolationist principles are ideals. I would have for another country to come here and tell me what to do. Actually China may very well do that once they have literally bought the country through our debt.
Wow you sound so smart and I'm going to say I have no clue about Summers. At least I admit my ignorance.
---------------------------
You have no clue concerning Obama's chief economic architect yet you call Obama a Marxist?
Interesting.
Have you read Kapital?
Oops. Typoe
I meant "I would hate for another country to come here and tell me what to do."
Yes Ducky. In highschool and college where my college professors taught me nicely about Marx and Bourdieu. I understood that Marx was not advocating per say policies. And Marx makes interesting points, like any thinker. I am just not sure in applies in our post-industrial society.
A Marxist to me is someone who transforms Marx analysis into actions, leveraging those crises of capitalism. Or someone who wants to force equality on society. Who criticizes profit as a bad or inhuman thing.
In that regard the discourse of Democrats, Obama and unions are Marxist.
Even if Larry Summers is on board.
Oh and even Chavez just said Obama was more left than he was.
OFF TOPIC:
I just watched coverage of Obama in Buchenwald. CNN's covering this all so wrong it's hard for me to even comment, but I'll try;
Mr. Z reads the European press in their languages.
CNN is painting Merkel and the whole German peoples' displeasure of his not going to Berlin as if they are suggesting "He's trying to humiliate Germans by reopening the holocaust wounds" That is THE most dreadful mischaracterization I've maybe ever read even in OUR press. Obviously, Germans today are sensitive to the atrocities of WWII but no one can accuse Germany of trying to keep it quiet or not apologizing for it...the reason they're unhappy is that world leaders are to visit CAPITAL CITIES first, especially if invited, that's what they DO.
Except this one, who only chose to CAMPAIGN in Berlin. It's DISSING GERMANY by not stopping in THEIR CAPITAL. That is their point.
Of course, my feeling is this is payback(another obama payback but a negative one, unlike the unions and ACORN and other groups getting paid back positively for their help in getting him elected); payback on Obama's part for Germans not feeling the Brandenburg Gate was a proper place for another country's nominee to campaign and not giving him permission for that venue.
When asked about Buchenwald, Obama made this all about him again. I remember most American presidents answering questions with "The American people believe.." He said "I have no patience.." with Iran negating the holocaust. WHEN will he learn it's not about him?
As you all know, his uncle who was one of the liberators of a camp within Buchenwald says obama's bringing him into this is all political.
His uncle told Der Spiegel that he was surprised to see his war experience used in campaign commercials let alone now. He said he had never spoken with obama about it at all as he'd never expressed an interest. This is probably why obama'd erred while campaigning saying that his uncle had liberated Auschwitz.
You know, I think it's terrific that his great uncle did this, and that Obama might be proud of it; I just think that the dissing of Berlin for political gain isn't a great idea.
CNN also mentioned how Sarkozy is capitalizing on obama's popularity with the visit Saturday to Normandy. normandy is IN France and the French presidents have always hosted remembrances there...'capitalizing on OBAMA?'.. They apparently think everyone loves him as much as CNN does..??
Beamish, me, too, from the minute he came up on my radar screen, which was, sadly, too close to when they offed him.
Sarkozy doesn't like Obama. In private circles he said he was something of an inexperienced leader.
But for political reason he'll use him. He needs to get re-elected soon.
I'm glad he does. I don't want to see socialists win again.
I should have used "non-interventionism" instead of isolationism in my posts by the way.
Still learning how to be more specific in English every day :)
FB..again, this is something only the EUROPEAN PRESS publishes...the American press will not mention Sarkozy's disdain for Obama. And, of course, he must LOOK like he admires him, or at least be polite.
By the way, I'm not sure about how it is today in Germany (or France?), and I know most people here don't give a hoot, but I'm HUGE on protocol and dignity, and Mr Z has always told me "Men do not walk around with their hands in their pockets in Germany..it's like you're a slouch and disrespectful"(sort of like our 'no elbows on the table'rule in America, which is NOT regarded as a big sin in Europe, it's how they eat)....
There was Obama today, sauntering along the hallowed grounds of Buchenwald between Merkel and Wiesel with both hands in his pockets the whole time CNN had cameras on him....... of course, nothing was happening, CNN was just discussing the wonders of Obama for,literally, ten minutes as the group moved from one area to the other. FOX and MSNBC were covering other things until something really newsworthy or picture-time perfect happened, like the placing of white roses on a Buchenwald grave. This time, thank GOODNESS, obama stooped down and PUT the rose on the grave instead of tossing it on like he did at Ground Zero during the campaign.I was happy to see that.
Z, to be honest, I believe Obama is not much cultured and is widely ignorant on the world. He's good at talking when someone write his speeches but has really no deep knowledge on most issue. The non respect of protocol shows it.
Or the administration has the strongest despise for Western countries and would rather bow to Muslim "civilization" and offer an iPod to the Queen or a bunch of DVDs to the UK Prime Minister.
By the way, elbows on the table in France is a no-no. But you can put your two hands on it and use them both. Cutting your food before eating then resting one hand looks very grand-pa-ish in France.
I think worldwide consumption of burgers solve the cultural differences :)
FB, to be fair, the man was not raised in a stable situation where parents were there to teach dignity and respect.
Then he gets into the leftist hippie world of dope and Marx (one and the same, I might add!! heh) and he's on his way......
Then he hangs with people like Ayers and Wright and Frank Marshall Davis, his socialist mentor, and being cool and seeing America through the HATE LENS is better than admiring all the good we've done and understanding that power isn't everything.
I'm embarrassed of him in Europe and the Middle East, but there isn't much we can do.
Also, this morning on CNN, again they were saying "He seems tired". TIRED? Of WHAT? Did anybody ever notice Bush was TIRED after the grueling trips he made? This poor guy just can't handle the job in so many ways.
He smokes too much. It's bad for his breathing and he gets dehydrated and tired faster.
FB, it's easier to eat in Europe! Fork in left hand, knife in right...cut, pop in mouth, swallow.
I come back here and it seems goofy to cut with the knife in the right hand and then put the fork into the right hand to eat!
And yes, the wrists sometimes rest on the table with fork in right hand and knife in left, but no elbows in France. Germans don't give a hoot about the elbows from what I observed.
I personally think the 'no elbows', one hand in lap thing is silly, but.........
Frogburger,
However when foreign policy is driven by other elements than the interest of the people in the country, that is extremely dangerous.
I'd like some elaboration on this statement. What if any foriegn policies do you see as contrary to the interests of the American people?
Unfortunately us small citizens don't have much of a say or control in those things.
Pebbles start avalanches.
All I know is that it'll backlash. Rome fell on too much expansion. France is nothing on the world stage now because it stretched itself too thin with colonies. So did England. The US will be the next one. Then China will rise again and fall again.
America has no colonies - in fact we're rather unique in that every resource and product brought into America from the rest of the world is paid for at the point of sale.
China's rise is because they are our favorite store to shop in. 3% of China's GDP is what bulk distributors like Wal-Mart and Costco pay China to rent just the port shipping warehouses alone.
China would shivel up and die if America favored another nation to trade with.
I accept it the way it is. My isolationist principles are ideals. I would have for another country to come here and tell me what to do. Actually China may very well do that once they have literally bought the country through our debt.
I doubt there is risk of that, barring Obama having a firesale after nationalizing everything.
FB...I forgot about that.
Did you see him seeing the sites in a short sleeve shirt and sunglasses? I found that okay, sort of, until I saw him getting on the plane like that, saluting men in full uniforms of respect and dignity while wearing a short sleeved shirt .......that bugged me. Of course, if he came from the sight-seeing directly to the plane he can't exactly change clothes in the car, I guess.
Z,
I think I first read about Massoud and the Afghan mujihadeen in Soldier of Fortune magazines in the mid-1980s. Always have respected him.
Frogburger,
I should have used "non-interventionism" instead of isolationism in my posts by the way.
Ah. Big difference.
I take it you're not of the DeGaulle "France does not have allies, only interests" school.
Ya, well, Beamish....something about him yanked my chain. He's not 'handsome', but there's something there.
He showed SUCH great conviction and courage. What a tragedy his death was.
Beamish, my statement was very general. I am very cautious of foreign policy decisions that may be influeced by economic lobbies.
Why do you think France was against the war in Iraq? 1/ Because of its Arab population 2/ Because ELF, the French oil company that has financed the main parties had a special agreement with Saddam that allowed them to incorporate some of the Iraqi oil reserves as assets in their balance sheet.
Again I don't trust government one bit so I may be cynical as to its motivations.
My dad would have De Gaulle's pictures in the house but I am not a big fan.
I have a funny story about him actually.
One day when I was 8 in school, the teacher said De Gaulle and the Resistance saved France, to which I replied that America had saved us.
FB, MY GOSH, you saw your future even then, didn't you!
The French really DO make QUITE beautiful displays of their military prowess, however, you have to admit.
I went to the Armistice Day celebration at the Arc d'Triomphe one morning..suddenly, I have to admit, they played THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER. There I stood among all those French people BAWLING my eyes out with pride. OH, that felt good. I just couldn't help it!!!!
Yes we're good at displaying the army for Bastille Day and our shiny old equipment :)
We don't value the military in France at all. I don't know what's the reason. The national service may have led to this. Or is it our defeats?
But we do see it in the streets or train station instead of the police and I really disliked that. It does feel like a fascist country when the army is used for internal matters.
YOu don't value the military? They sure DID once, everywhere there are war memorials, Napeoleon's tomb, parades, etc.
The Americans I knew who lived in Paris liked that most of the police are army-trained!!
What don't you like???
About seeing the future, when I was in the streets of NYC at 16 I had this gut feeling that one day I would marry an American woman. I remember thinking about it while walking with my parents. And I did!
I didn't see *I* don't value it. I have a great admiration for people who are in it. But I think the French value their past and history more than they value their *contemporary* military. During the years of military service the only thing young people, including myself, would say was that it was useless and it was just a waste of time. Never ever my parents or family members praised soldiers in front of me for example. At least not like they do in the US.
God I type too fast.
"I didn't say *I* don't value it." and not "I didn't see *I* don't value it."
The police may be army trained and it's fine. I don't like seeing the *army* in the streets. I'd rather see the police for internal things. To me the army is to protect borders from outside threats.
An atheist Palestinian friend of mine posted this on his Facebook page
"Our president's speech is good, but we need to wait 350 yrs. Arab leaders cannot be trusted and extremist are in control of the religion!"
FB, your friend is RIGHT. Thanks for sharing that...
Mr. Z's just telling me that even the liberal newspapers in Germany are saying that it would be wrong for them to do there what obama's doing with our economy(bail outs, etc.). Germany, the land all Americans think is 'so liberal'. Apparently, we're worse now.
But, of course, we conservatives saw that.
I am so sorry to have missed all of this. I've been tied up with our gardens and haven't had much time for the internet.
This is amazing and I read all the comments you posted and the ones in the comment thread too. I also love "Frogburger's" handle. LOL!
thanks Z!..have a blessed weekend girl!
The police may be army trained and it's fine.
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Better for beating the crap out of Algerians?
Ducky, did I say that again?
Again twisting words. Or if you meant to be funny, your humor is well humorless.
FrogB: A fan of Austrian economics and Thomas Sowell...I like the cut of your jib.
Obama wants to nationalize health care and have the governement pay for education. He reuires states to accept stimulus money and spend it as he sees fit. He's nationalized GM. Ducky, is it really that big of a stretch to use the term Marxist?
tio bowser
Obama wants to nationalize health care and have the government pay for education. He requires states to accept stimulus money and spend it as he sees fit. He's nationalized GM. Ducky, is it really that big of a stretch to use the term Marxist?
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Let's start with the obvious. When are you people going to learn that single payer and nationalized health care are not synonymous? When?
If you look at his health care plan he is doing very little to force out the insurance company and their massive extortion. Not a very radical plan at all.
Government funded education is Marxist? Well, it's been around for a long time. Unless you have a complete free market bias this doesn't make much sense. Our educational system is not completely government funded so I think you're wrong again.
Besides, what does Obama have to do with initiating this? You're being silly.
If a state accepts the stimulus there is a requirement on how it be spent. Again, you may be against the stimulus but this seems reasonable. Something a rational person would expect.
As for GM. There is precedent for the government trying to save manufacturers. I think you are going to have to have a much larger level of nationalization.
Marxist? He's isn't even a social democrat.
I wonder if one can change Islam. I remember reading Montesquieu in highschool and was he was saying about religions and political systems.
http://lonang.com/exlibris/montesquieu/sol-24.htm
But I must add that I have Muslim friends in this country and they're wonderful, open-minded, business savvy people. I wish we would hear those people more often.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/06/05/2009-06-05_antibailout_south_carolina_governor_.html
FB; not TOO fascist, huh? The state of S Carolina is FORCING their governor to take money he feels will put them in terrible stead in a year or two. FORCING HIM TO TAKE THE MONEY. it's unbelievable...
PLEASE tell your wonderful muslim friends to start speaking out against extremists...I think we'd ALL feel much better finally trusting these people. Nobody likes fear or mistrust.
By the way, I found it fascinating that CNN refers to the muslim convert who killed the recruiting soldier by his previous American name. His name has been muslim for a few years, but not for CNN, lest people actually put 2 and 2 together.
Argh. I thought I was on the most recent post. Oh well :) Multitasking with multiple tabs is not working.
Hey Duckette, did you know that France is encouraging its citizens to use private health insurance to complement the nationalized one? My mom actually has 2 complementary insurances and already pays 500 dollars a month in taxes for the nationalized one. Not saying we don't have a problem here but the solution is not in the government either.
Soon they'll force citizens to take money and then you'll have to obey like a puppy.
Oh, no, Frogburger, they'll never FORCE anyone to take money (see S. Carolina stimulus package money!)
As for France...same in Germany! BUT, our media makes people actually think HEALTHCARE IS FREE there! Rubbish! Their taxes are incredibly high PLUS they pay for supplementary insurance, you're right.
But, it's not in our media's interest to be truthful anymore; doesn't suit their agenda.
Z, if you feel like it we should post a French paycheck as a document. I could ask my mom to scan one for me.
Well, if you think it would help. And if you'd translate!
YOu'd think any rational,sane person would understand that we're not LYING, for pete's sake!
You choose. I am just so glad you have been so willing to contribute not only the answers to my questions but to the comments section. You've been a real blessing to a lot of us with your truth and your opinions, and I so appreciate it, FB.
Ducky,
Vowing to provide universal health care is an example of providing to each according to his needs, so using the term Marxist seems appropriate. I'd be happy to hear you distinguish between nationalized and single payer health care, but forcing people to provide such services is an example of coercion, not freedom.
No, Obama didn't invent publicly funded education, but during his campaign, he assured us that anyone who wants to go to college will get to go; the government will provide a way. I believe the voucher programs that would help parents send their children to private schools is also under attack. Of course not all education is run by the government, but since everyone is forced to pay for it, only the wealthy can afford their way out of it. This has been the point expressed by many conservatives.
So the government gets to dole out money with provisions on how it is spent. The government receives the money from the tax-payers, who don't get to make such provisions when paying the IRS. So the government takes the money, but gives it back conditionally, redistributing as it sees fit. Again, this has more to do with socialism than freedom. (Yes, I am against the stimulus.)
You argued that the takeover of GM was not unprecedented. Whether or not that is the case, I think it still qualifies as socialist. The point is not that Obama is the first to have socialistic policies, just that he does have socialistic policies.
Not even a social democrat? You believe that, or are you just trying to get a reaction? Or just assuming that position to see if you can debate it?
tio bowser
Hi, Tio..OH, so glad to have you back; you make a lot of sense.
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