Wednesday, June 3, 2009

Obama's in a felafel... PICKLE, sorry ...and Z's initial impressions after having seen the speech LIVE

"Don't be biased towards Israel, don't interfere in countries' internal affairs and don't give lessons in democracy," said an editorial in Egypt's state-owned Rose El-Youssef newspaper. ............Just tell us how much America loves us, huh?
He can't make Osama mad, either....should be quite a speech. But, you know, I'm hoping for the best...

THURSDAY MORNING: Well, I listened to the whole speech. Live.... You will all hear what he said, or read it somewhere today, it'll be hard to escape even if you want to. I'll start by saying that there was a fairly large amount of Copts among the mostly Muslim audience in the Egyptian University Hall. I will also say that for all the times Obama mentioned the HOLY Koran, he finally mentioned the Bible at the end and used "HOLY" before it, too. I think this speech was extremely naive and far too professorial, and I certainly didn't agree with lots of what he said, BUT I will say there was something that appealed to me about it. Sadly, he treated Muslims as one monolithic bunch, which they are not, but one can't see him singling out and addressing just the Sunnis, then the Shiia, in one speech, how could he? He had to speak in generalizations. If they were monolithic in their beliefs, with no infighting and violently opposing views, the world could have a chance at trying to pursue his very lofty ideals, but it isn't, so, that's a big problem. His treatment of Iran's nukes was far too soft and not specific. He said there were 7 million Muslims in America, which I thought was pandering since the number's probably not even close to that high....

If his first goal was to garner support and understanding among moderate or even hardline muslims with no extremist instincts, then I believe he did quite a good job. (If he was trying to tick Israelis off, he did a pretty good job with that, too, sadly!) Most of the applause (and I took notes, including when they applauded because I felt that was a good indication of what appealed most to them) was for Islam's greatness; how important it had been to Western civliization, how Morocco was the first country to recognize America, and not for when he called for working together, etc., in general. But, they sort of softened at the end, I must admit, and even clapped for religious understanding and tolerance (whether those were the Copts or not, I have no way of knowing, but I'd guess so, sadly. I hope I'm wrong as I'd like to think some Muslims agreed).

He's all over the 2-State Middle East 'solution'....not much applause when he talked about any of that. He did get plenty of applause for women's rights, which was surprising (again, the Copts? I hope not, it was a university crowd, maybe even the Muslim kids are waking up as many there are more secular). He got a very spontaneous burst of clapping when he mentioned his father's coming to America (I have no idea why, it seemed odd) (By the way, he calls his father a firm atheist in his book and now calls him agnostic, which I find interesting, by the way).

He went VERY pro-Mulsim, heavily reminding us of his Indonesian background and the amount of Muslims in his family (he did identify himself as a Christian, however) even saying that, as president, part of his job is to fight wrong perceptions of Islam wherever they appear. That's a near quote and I thought that fascinating and rather difficult to swallow, frankly. Did any American ever vote for a man who felt it's "part of his job" to fight wrong perceptions of any religion? He used his middle name, as he's been doing a lot lately, since the election, which I find creepy and utterly pandering since he didn't allow it during the campaign, but they loved it, of course. He really flattered Islam WAY too much, in my opinion, but I can see why he did it...I really can. He's trying to win moderates and I think they loved the speech, they gave him a standing ovation at the end; not all, but most.

He was less Pro America than I'd personally like, he gave some digs at us, NO doubt about it, which I hated, and it's not a speech I ever thought I'd hear from a president of this country; not everyone will be happy with this speech, that's for darned sure.
I will really look forward to hearing talking heads on both sides of the aisle on this one; and very interested in hearing remarks from the Middle East. I'd like to hear yours, too.

I'm going back to bed.....it's 4:30 AM here! Please excuse typos, whatever....I'm tired. And I welcome your comments. Here's a LOT more, something to get you started if you haven't read anything yet.



31 comments:

beamish said...

هل كان واضح وكان لها. هل كان واضح وقال انه لا الشعر. واضح انه لم يكن هو واضح جدا؟

;)

Z said...

B..I was thinking exactly the same thing. you misspelled the fourth word.

Pat Jenkins said...

don't worry z barack HUSSEIN obama wont let the muslims down.. now america may be another story!!

shoprat said...

All of this would not make the Muslims happy.

Chuck said...

I caught a clip of his remark on 9/11 and I was pissed. First, he never laid the blame where it belonged, on the murderous terrorists. Second, he alluded to the fact that we were ruled by fear and hatred after wards and this made us do horrible things. As far as I'm concerned if he likes Islam so much, he can stay there.

beamish said...

For those getting crappy Babelfish translations, my "Arabic" above says:

"Fuzzy Was He was a bear. Fuzzy Was He had no hair. Fuzzy Was He wasn't very fuzzy was he?"

(Was He because wuzzy isn't really a word)

Ducky's here said...

Second, he alluded to the fact that we were ruled by fear and hatred after wards and this made us do horrible things.

--------------------------

We weren't? We acted like a nation of frightened children and renounced our claim to greatness. It's going to take some time to build that back up.

christian soldier said...

You got up to hear him LIVE!!!???
C-CS

The Hermit said...

I read the text of the speech on Fox this morning. It was no more than I had expected, but I was still embarrassed. I think Obama truly believes you can fix all these problems by being "men of good will." But it isn't going to work that way.

Ducky's here said...

Obama truly believes you can fix all these problems by being "men of good will."

-----------------------------

No, what he's doing is demonstrating that we have become a little moe sophisticated than "give us the damn oil and let Likud do whatever it wants to or we're going to invade your punk arse country".

This new voice offers a lot more opportunity for useful progress.

Miss T.C. Shore said...

He said there were seven million muslims in the US because there are 2.5 million muslim terrorists here that the rest of us don't know about.

(That's just conjecture on my part).

Elmers Brother said...

Of course he treated Muslims like their monolithic...it's trademark liberalism.

Those they like become victim groups that only the left can help, the other become marginalized, because they serve no political purpose.

I'm wondering if he expects a call from Osama offering an olive branch?

Who cares what the moderate Muslims think abou the speech, they're not the ones trying to kill us.

beamish said...

We acted like a nation of frightened children and renounced our claim to greatness.

You got a mouse in your pocket?

Be honest, Ducky.

I watched America take out two state sponsors of terrorism, bring democracy to 50 million people, and reduce Al Qaeda's command hierarchy to making crappy YouTube videos and / or singing at Gitmo, while...

...you primped up in a pink feather boa and marched up and down the street hissing "Bush is Hitler."

Anonymous said...

Well, BO has proven again that he's capable of reading a speech from the tele-prompter. From what I saw it was made in broad and sweeping generalities, using concepts that most people would not quibble with.

What I see as being contradictory is that his over blown rhetoric masks the real intentions of what he and his administration are doing. When he uses the terms "American values", most would assume he would be referring to the founding principles laid down by the founding fathers of the country. Yet, in action, the actions of his government, are more and more encroaching on the individualism, individual rights and constitutionally limited government defined by those founding fathers. He seems to have an affinity for statism — appointing "czars" to expand the sphere of power of the government into too many aspects of life in what was intended to be a country based on freedom, and which made it unique in the world. His actions belie his words at home, so it will be interesting to see what his actions will be globally after his speech in Cairo.

He may have to prove that he's not just an empty suit capable of reading a tele-prompter. And it would be interesting to know whose words these are that he is reading, since he seems to be closely following their script.

Waylon

Z said...

Pat, I think he let some down by not slamming Israel as hard as he could have.......but you're right, he did sell us short, no doubt.

Shoprat, they seemed pretty happy in that room; but, you're right..the muslim street...? WHO KNOWS?

Chuck, I thought he did talk pretty hard about 9/11 , how it affected us and how 3000 innocent people were killed...he did better on that than I'd have thought he would.. and ya, that "ruled by fear and hatred thing" almost sounds silly when one considers what happened to so many innocents and how we didn't know what would happen next! Ya, I think you can't be too fearful after that.

CJ...I don't know why..I woke up and just felt I had to get up, not thinking about obama or the speech..just went to the TV and put it on and he was just getting started, so I sat through it, pen and paper in hand.........

Hermit; that was the impresssion I got..that American greatness seemed missing in Obama's speech, absolutely true. That was a very sad side of the speech.

TC..I hope you're WRONG.

Elbro, they aren't the ones trying to kill\ us but at least it's a start when they start getting through their indoctrinated heads that someone from America's willing to reach out ...hopefully, they can do a bit of calming down.

Do I think this speech is a HUGE event and people are going to change? ABSOLUTELY not.........but I thought it was a start. He needs to start APPEARING that he cares more about Americans than Muslim Arabs though........it really came across that "Ya, I represent THEM, but....I sure do respect YOU and welcome you and 'we're paying for your students to study in America'..blahblah" That part of it I expected but it still hurt, as an American.

Z said...

Waylon, excellent point.

He's over there squaring islam with WHICH AMERICA...the America he's ripping to shreds as we break the Constitution more and more each day? Or the American he apparently disdains; integrity, power, good deeds for other countries and righteousness?

"Hey, Mr. Obama...you can't be knocking our values down when you're HERE in America and selling them as undeniably wonderful positive forces for the world when you're THERE. Muslims aren't that stupid. And you're going to have to finally learn that we aren't either, even the ones you fooled into voting for you."


Waylon, excellent point.

Z said...

Here's word from Arabia:

"Political commentator Ali Reza Khamesian said Obama's acknowledgment of Iran's right to produce nuclear energy for peaceful purposes was "a step forward for better ties with the United States."

No, this just makes us look MORE stupid; every commentator here, lib or conservative, is saying "With all that oil under that country, you have to be a moron to believe they're making nuclear energy and not bombs"

We need to STOP sounding like morons. You didn't have to agree with Bush but at least he got this point.

beamish said...

No, what he's doing is demonstrating that we have become a little moe sophisticated than "give us the damn oil and let Likud do whatever it wants to or we're going to invade your punk arse country".

America has paid for every drop of oil it imports from Iraq after the trade embargoes were lifted.

Afghanistan has no oil.

So we weren't "given" any oil, and have never demanded it be handed over. For that matter, we could have withdrawn from UN Security Council mandated economic sanctions on Saddam Hussein's Iraq and bought direct from your fellow leftists in the Baath Party.

Likud was out of power in Israel for nine of the last ten years, so this is just boilerplate leftist stupidity in the form of an unnecessary, ignorant anti-Israel swipe.

Making ridiculously nonsensical statements on foriegn policy was all you needed to do to leave no doubt of your leftist position.

Shouting "Heil Hitler" was overkill.

Ducky's here said...

It's bad for Muslims to like the president and besides they all love George Bush because he liberated them.

FrogBurger said...

I just wish the moderate muslims would step up to the plate and denounce their crazy friends.

Because Obama can be as nice as he wants, the crazy ones will keep bombing if they can.

Again, I always think 1938. Europeans were very nice to Adolf.

And Ducky, when did it happen that Liberals would stop supporting a country like Israel that has the most Liberal values in the world for a country where they blow up their own children and mistreat their women?
I just don't understand the logic--once again.

Ducky's here said...

Liberals would stop supporting a country like Israel

-----------------------------

Support or bend over for Likud.

FrogBurger said...

So I guess you can bend over to Hamas and Hezbollah.

At least they have a democracy and the parties alternate very often. Not sure the same can be said for Palestine.

Z said...

Frogburger: "LIBERALS"?

'VALUES"? what's that BIG LAUGH thing commenters do? oh, ya. .BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Liberals would be all OVER helping Israel were it not that they're successful. Maybe that's what it WOULD take to get them to wake up; let Palestinians run Tel Aviv into the ground like illegals are doing here to some of our cities...THEN, maybe, Ducky might feel so badly for Jews in Israel that he'll support them? naaa, Libs don't care about our cities enough, either. SANCTUARY, ESMERALDA..SANCTUARY!

Funny thing is that SANCTUARY is what Israel HAS offered Palestinians... seemed not to stop them from blowing up buses of Jewish grandpas.

Frogburger has it right: Until we reach extremists, nothing ANYBODY says will work and no treaties in the ME will work; Israel has blown no one up after treaties..it's only been Pseudostinians, as my good friend Beak says.

BUT, I will not negate the idea that the speech could have helped in some arenas.
Problem is, we're reading in the European takes on the speech that "Now Muslims are asking NOW WHAT?" MY "NOw what?" would be "Ya, NOW YOU STOP ATTACKING people, YOU start calming down your extremists!"

Obama's seemed to have been "NOW WHAT? NOW we're going to PAY for Muslims to live better in Palestine and America" Is that on the Stimulus package?
If it IS, you SURE CAN'T CALL IT PORK!! HEH (damn)

chuck: Mr. Z says "I'm with you...tell him to stay there!"

Karen said...

Z,
I salute your energy to watch that speech live. I slept and printed it out to read. It is interesting that the critics on both sides say that it was an ok speech - except the Obamatrons who keep saying it is "historic" - and not his best delivered.

It is a shame he continues to slap the military and intel communities by his insistance that we abandoned our principles after 9/11. Still waiting for the day he can deliver a speech and not take a swipe at the Bush admin.

Z said...

Karen, I just happened to wake up, having no idea it was even on......it took more energy to try to keep watching that man, which about did me in, frankly.

I couldn't agree with you more: it's mean spirited, very childhood-bully type of behavior (plus elitist Harvard junk as if he's not grown up and matured yet?) to insist that everything's Bush's fault. Imagine a president like that in OUR WHITE HOUSE?

But, of course, Bush was silly enough the other day to tell the world Bill Clinton hadn't ever slammed him ....while living in paris, I listened to Clinton speak at a Labor Party convention....he did NOTHING but bemoan the fact that Bush had overturned all his 'wonderful' accomplishments, practically called him names, and did the typical leftist demeaning stuff one would NEVER expect from a man of such character that Americans would elect him.

On the other hand....what character? Again, Bill Clinton sailed by, thinking "He didn't hear me" I Sure did. I was cringing.

beamish said...

Frogburger,

.... when did it happen that Liberals would stop supporting a country like Israel that has the most Liberal values in the world for a country where they blow up their own children and mistreat their women?

Marx, Proudhon, Bukunin, Hitler...

The far left has always dreamed of a "world without Jews."

As for when the switch occured - I'd guess around the early 1980s when it was widely accepted as dirty little secret in the international community that Yasser Arafat was gay (Romania had pictures.)

mksviews said...

"don't worry z barack HUSSEIN obama wont let the muslims down.. now america may be another story!!"

Not 'may', he will let you down, that is his plan.

Always On Watch said...

I think this speech was extremely naive and far too professorial, and I certainly didn't agree with lots of what he said, BUT I will say there was something that appealed to me about it.

I watched the speech live, too, and had the same reaction.

I think that people such as you and I so want peace in the Middle East, peace in general. Therein lies the appeal of the speech.

But I think that the results of BHO's speech will be devastating -- both at home and abroad.

Also, did you notice in the speech BHO's position on immigration? Are we going to import thousands of jihadists and AQ sleeper cells? I think so.

BHO made several historical errors in the Cairo Speech, too. For example, he glossed right over the fact that the first war in which the newly formed United States became engaged was with the Moslem pirates of the Barbary Coast when he spoke of M Morrocco. And, of course, he never mentioned the role of Moslems in enslaving Africans for centuries.

Ducky's here said...

Beamish, let me get this straight. You believe there is a democracy in Afghanistan?

Are you insane?

Man, you will eat anything they put on the plate, won't you.

beamish said...

Beamish, let me get this straight. You believe there is a democracy in Afghanistan?

Are you insane?

Man, you will eat anything they put on the plate, won't you.


The members of the executive and legislative branches of the Afghan government are - by their new constitution - elected into office by the citizens of Afghanistan, and have term limits.

Do you have a definition of democracy not yet in the dictionary?

Anonymous said...

I also watched it live. He really
reads a speech well.
I gasped and yawned, amazed at the
reactions he was getting from the crowd. Didn't he say something about the debt America owed to the
Muslim world at out foundation?

I haven't had time to read the text, but I remember saying out loud WHAT?? There were no Muslims here when America began...right??

Did I just fall asleep and dream this??
Matisse