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27 comments:
I definitely agree with the ACLU. Someone should have taken these children away from the ceremony under armed escort and crucified them on the front lawn of Pace High School. Or, alternatively, fed them to the lions. There is simply no other way to demonstrate to these radical right wing extremists that their religious views impose a significant danger to the American way of life.
Although, as an after-thought, I wonder what the ACLU would think about persecuting someone for expressing his or her own point of view? I mean, isn't the right of self-expression one of our "American civil liberties?"
Hmmm. Someone seems to have dug themselves into a deep hole ...
Oh my, I've heard of this happening before. Good for those students!
I have lovely new photos of Ella on my blog...finally.
I'm with Mustang...they should have been flooged where they stood! They didn't pan through the audience when they were reciting the prayer, but I'm sure the mental anguish they experienced having to listen to those students is going to take hundreds of hours of government funded theropy to cure. Are you kidding me!
This is not even the tip of the Anti-Christian iceberg...just wait until they start removing students in handcuffs for wearing a crucifix or a WWJD bracelet. Just stayed tuned folks the ride only gets rockier!
Blessings.
Oh heaven forbid somebody other than a bleeding heart liberal express their right to free speech.
Because we all know that only those who promise not to offend anybody (well, anybody other than christians or jews that is) have the right to free speech.
Well, folks, sit tight. As the video said, the ACLU is considering their options. Maybe they'll strip the kids of their diplomas?
I have asked SO MANY Jewish friends about whether Christmas time bugs them and not ONE has said yes; they all laugh at me and say that they love the season's beauty, etc. Have never felt 'threatened' or uncomfortable.
Why now? What's the HUGE PURGE to rid America only of CHristianity? Oh, yes, the ACLU will insist this is all about ANY faith (and yes, i know they've also defended Christianity, no doubt about it), but leaving the ACLU out of this for a minute...what's up?
Why can't atheists or agnostics or other faiths handle Christianity?
These kids would NEVER have done this if they hadn't felt they had to to make a point, you all know that.
It's almost Felliniesque to think that, in America, all mention of Christianity must be hidden. I.H.S. is right; this is ONLY the beginning.
WHY? What's the big deal? something like 80% of American identify as Christian. Yet we have a president who finds it so important to remind the world and us that we are not a Christian Nation! EVERY single preamble of every single state talks about faith/God, etc. Does anybody here think our founding fathers meant Buddha or Mohammed!?
Jews don't have NEVER had a problem...
who DOES? And WHY NOW? WHy the huge and important getting rid of the Ten Commandments, etc etc?
It's good to see some kids who'll stand up.
A not so silent, non-violent revolution is happening and the ACLU is against the people as usual.
The faith in the State is the worst kind.
There's a point when a secular society stops being secular when it's all about the State and nothing but the State.
I remember the French revolution when Reason was deity. And Reason killed people and committed genocide against the Chouans.
The leftists criticize the Church for the evil things it did in the middle ages. But they cannot justify a society deprived of religion, and more importantly faith, based on those events. Because the Church was the State then. That's why so many atrocities were committed.
By removing religion from the State to the point there's no freedom of religion, the State still remains. We don't have choices anymore.
History shows that state and collectivism are the problem. They're the ones that created evil things in the world. Not faith. Not individuals practicing their religion in a peaceful manner.
And I'm not a church goer and wish I had more faith. So I've been thinking about that quite a lot.
Good for those kids! Well done. G-d am I SICK of the ACLU!
Whatever, I find it interesting that this is considered "standing up to the ACLU" rather than respecting SCOTUS rulings and the Constitution.
Let me get this straight, the ACLU interprets the establishment clause, not the Supreme Court of the United States.
The right is so weak on constitutional matters that I like to clarify their thinking.
Ducky, the Constitution says freedom *of* religion, not freedom *from* religion.
My English isn't great but I see the difference between of and from.
I'm sure you know American history better than I do, but people who founded this country fled from religious persecution b/c they wanted to practice their faith, not go to a place where they could not.
I'd rather see everybody pray in public places, including muslims, than see everybody bowing to the incompetence and mediocrity of the State.
Ducky: First, attempt to clarify your own understanding before you attempt to set others on the correct path. The facts, by any standard, clearly demonstrate there has been no greater corrupting influence on American values than the mindless, soulless left, among whom you proudly identify.
FB: Even mediocrity is a high standard for the left. No one makes a better case for this argument than Ducky.
mustang, nice strawman.
Again, do you accept the Supreme Court as the final interpreter of the Constitution?
Ducky, the Constitution says freedom *of* religion, not freedom *from* religion.
--------------------
Same question. Do you accept the Supreme Court of the United States as the final arbiter of the Constitution?
If you have a beef why not bring suit challenging their interpretation of the establishment clause, frogburger?
I may recognize it but I don't have to agree with it all the time.
I recognize Obama as the President of the United States and I disagree with him 99% of the time.
If the Supreme Court was revoking Roe vs Wade, would you recognize the Supreme Court as the arbiter of the Constitution?
You can't corner me too much, Duckette :)
First of all, Ducky is misrepresenting the wording of the Constitution. It says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". The very next line is, "or abridging the freedom of speech".
So, let's look at this a little closer, shall we?
The school district did not sanction the prayer, the students took it upon themselves and did it as a protest.---No Constitutional violation.
The gentleman conducting the ceremony patiently allowed the students to finish the protest/prayer. He did not interrupt.---No Constitutional violation.
We not only supposed to have freedom of religion in this country, Ducky, but also freedom of speech!
Good for those students! I'm extremely proud of each and every one of them. :)
I am so proud of those young people. And how, pray tell would anyone stop this?
Call in the police with their batons?
If, as IHS suggests, students or others were to be arrested for wearing crosses, it would notch up the resistance.
We may one day expect this, and if it does happen, there will be more resistance and activism, and it will be fought.
Today's youth who are dissenters of the status quo, and in our schools and universities the status quo is exemplified by the left, have the same rights as the leftist students had years ago during the sixties.
So Ducky, when it comes to the Constitution, it knows no party, and doesn't discriminate when it comes to rights. Judges may discriminate, and ACLU lawyers may discriminate, but not the Constitution.
The Constitution clearly states that there is freedom of religion, including the majority religion, amd freedom of expression, whether you like it or not.
You keep your foot on the neck of people long enough, and they'll fight back, it's human nature.
Ducky, I remember the sixties, the sit ins, the demonstrations, bricks thrown through windows, etc., all leftist led activities.
I ask you, did they break any laws? You bet they did. Well, now some of those folks are running universities and schools. Are they espousing the rights of these students? No. They want to keep their feet on their necks.
The left has two sets of rules. One for them, and one for conservatives, Christians, and traditionalists. Their rules do not apply when it comes to the latter.
I say, what goes around comes around.
Now it's your turn to watch and be dismayed. You're in charge, and the rebellion is aimed at you. How does it feel? The more heavy handed you are, the more resistance you'll get, and I for one, disdain passivity in the cause of freedom.
Anything worth having, is worth fighting for. It's our turn. And to hell with the ACLU.
Pris
Ah, nothing beats the "Free Exercise" clause. ;-)
These little tiffs wouldn't happen if the Constitution were followed and the government got out of the education business altogether.
Good for the Pace H.S. seniors.
I love it. But I tend to be of the 'subvert the dominant paradigm' mindset.
Not only that, but this country was founded on freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Not freedom FROM...
Z- this usurpation of the First Amendment -directed toward Christians has been going on -a LITTLE at a time-for MANY years---the ACLU is the vehicle that has been used --big $$ are behind the ACLU and x-ing out Christianity ...Remember -the Dark Side always follows through -taking the ground-inch by inch - until someone stands up to it......
Looks like the young people stood up---and exercised their First Amendment FREEDOM!!!
We've got to stand with them...
C-CS
C-CS
Just watched the Klavan video-the students did No SHUT UP - did they! :-)
C-CS
Carol, EXCELLENT POINT....very good TIE IN!
Thanks for posting the Voight speech...I hope people stop by and see it at your place if they haven't already heard it.
Rest easy, Frogburger. You have a much better grasp on the situation than Ducky, who is sawing off the limb on which he's perched with this one.
HIGHLIGHTS FOR THE RECORD:
----Simplified, but not out of context----
While SCOTUS struck down graduation prayers controlled and sponsored by school districts (Lee vs. Weisman 1992), after years of debate and other clarifying rulings, six years ago the Dept. of Education issued guidelines that acknowledge that student initiated expression is protected speech.
Shades of interpretation vary by state - Florida is more open in this regard. An 11th circuit ruling (which governs Florida) invalidated a ruling that barred student-initiated prayer at school functions.
Other districts have tweaked policies to parallel SCOTUS rulings that, in the end, allow student-initiated prayer or other religious content to stand in graduation ceremonies. (Read SCOTUS Lee decision, followed by Jones vs. Clear Creek school district decision in the 5th circuit, which SCOTUS let stand, e.g.)
After Lee (and later Santa Fe, again affecting school imposed prayer) a host of lower court rulings provide for varying degrees of tolerance in different jurisdictions. Neither law nor custom is as cut and dried as Ducky would like to bluff.
Great job by these kids. The more I see young people turning to Him, the more I am filled with real hope for this country. It's not any more complicated than this.
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