Thursday, June 16, 2011

Brats rule?

I just heard a little 4 year old tell her mother "MOM, don't DO that EVER again!"  and the mother said "I know, I won't.."   I couldn't believe what I heard!  And it reminded me that, yesterday, my hairdresser yesterday was talking about her sixteen year old son and how she can't talk during TV shows when he's around.   (SHE can't TALK in her home because of HIM?)  She also talked about some special school she's trying to get him into and how she's hoping HE likes it.  (I'm trying to picture my mother worrying if we liked something she felt was best for us when we were in our teens! :-)

I could list a lot more of these absurdities and I think you could, too.

When did kids start to RULE and parents lost their control and how did it happen?   I know all my mother and dad had to do was look at us and we behaved;  and they hadn't beaten us, we just respected them and knew we'd better shape up 'or else'...and the 'or else' was something I can't even put my finger on.  They didn't threaten us with a terrible enough 'or else' ... but we knew.  We'd not want to disappoint them.   I know I and my siblings weren't special, most of you probably felt that way;  so where did that respect GO?

Is this good for our society and is there any going back to children with respect?  Honestly, I can't blame the kids, can you?   



Major said...

"When did kids start to RULE and parents lost their control and how did it happen? "

As soon as the little thugs realized that they could send their parents to jail for disciplining them? As soon as they realized that teachers have to put up with their criminals in training?

Z said...

Major; excellent points. That might have been a turning point; maybe parents got scared that even putting a hand on their precious children could cause trouble.
I'm not for beating kids but I have never seen a swat on the rear end do much harm.
I SO don't want this to be a comments page on spanking but it enters into the discussion re brats, I suppose.
(is that a picture of your dog?)

Major said...

"is that a picture of your dog?"'s a picture of a Gunny I used to know.

Speedy G said...

Plato, "Republic"

I was going to observe, that the insatiable desire of this and the neglect of other things introduces the change in democracy, which occasions a demand for tyranny.

How so?

When a democracy which is thirsting for freedom has evil cup-bearers presiding over the feast, and has drunk too deeply of the strong wine of freedom, then, unless her rulers are very amenable and give a plentiful draught, she calls them to account and punishes them, and says that they are cursed oligarchs.

Yes, he replied, a very common occurrence.

Yes, I said; and loyal citizens are insultingly termed by her slaves who hug their chains and men of naught; she would have subjects who are like rulers, and rulers who are like subjects: these are men after her own heart, whom she praises and honours both in private and public. Now, in such a State, can liberty have any limit?

Certainly not.

By degrees the anarchy finds a way into private houses, and ends by getting among the animals and infecting them.

How do you mean?

I mean that the father grows accustomed to descend to the level of his sons and to fear them, and the son is on a level with his father, he having no respect or reverence for either of his parents; and this is his freedom, and the metic is equal with the citizen and the citizen with the metic, and the stranger is quite as good as either.

Yes, he said, that is the way.

And these are not the only evils, I said—there are several lesser ones: In such a state of society the master fears and flatters his scholars, and the scholars despise their masters and tutors; young and old are all alike; and the young man is on a level with the old, and is ready to compete with him in word or deed; and old men condescend to the young and are full of pleasantry and gaiety; they are loth to be thought morose and authoritative, and therefore they adopt the manners of the young.

Quite true, he said.

The last extreme of popular liberty is when the slave bought with money, whether male or female, is just as free as his or her purchaser; nor must I forget to tell of the liberty and equality of the two sexes in relation to each other.

Why not, as Aeschylus says, utter the word which rises to our lips?

That is what I am doing, I replied; and I must add that no one who does not know would believe, how much greater is the liberty which the animals who are under the dominion of man have in a democracy than in any other State: for truly, the she-dogs, as the proverb says, are as good as their she-mistresses, and the horses and asses have a way of marching along with all the rights and dignities of freemen; and they will run at any body who comes in their way if he does not leave the road clear for them: and all things are just ready to burst with liberty.

When I take a country walk, he said, I often experience what you describe. You and I have dreamed the same thing.

And above all, I said, and as the result of all, see how sensitive the citizens become; they chafe impatiently at the least touch of authority, and at length, as you know, they cease to care even for the laws, written or unwritten; they will have no one over them.

Yes, he said, I know it too well.

Such, my friend, I said, is the fair and glorious beginning out of which springs tyranny.

Glorious indeed, he said.

Z said...

Speedy! "I mean that the father grows accustomed to descend to the level of his sons and to fear them, and the son is on a level with his father, he having no respect or reverence for either of his parents;"

I've got to leave for a while but saw that and it's stunning, isn't it...will read the rest latere.

Major. :-)

Joe said...

My mother's motto was, "Because I'm the Mommy, that's why."

My father's motto was, "Don't make me say it twice."

She was and we didn't.

beamish said...

Never needed more than one ass-whoopin'.

Pris said...

I used to say, when my children would try to negotiate, after my decision was made, "I'm the boss, and you're not! And the famous, "because I said so". Or, "the world doesn't revolve around you".

They knew that was the end of it. Anyone who actually argues with a small child, is giving that child power over the parent.

I believe children know when they're wrong, and that we love them. But, they'll try to push to get their way.

If we say no, and stick by it when they're little, they won't keep crying and whining to get their way.

If they were disrespecful, they were punished either by being sent to their rooms, or a couple of swats on their bottoms, which by the way, was seldom necessary.

I also believe if we make a promise to them, it must be kept. Don't promise unless you can commit yourself to keeping it.

To me, this is important. They learn that keeping your word is keeping a bond of trust.

We taught them that when they were at school, out at play, away from us, they represented our family.

You should also know, there were lots of hugs and kisses, reading to them, playing games with them, and expressions from Mr. Pris and I, of our love and pride in them.

They were secure I believe, that we were the authority, which is a form of caring for their welfare.

When they know there is a line they cannot cross, and they obey that, that's what gives them a sense of responsibility, and security.

As they grew, we gradually loosened the reins, because they had earned our trust, and we theirs.

Leticia said...

Wow! I just posted about this same topic a while ago.

Many parents don't want to set rules and would rather be their children's friend. That's just not going to work. Kids need to learn to respect their elders, and if they don't they get a "a** whoopin" as Beamish so nicely stated.

Spanking has never killed a kid, it teaches them respect and obedience.

Big mistake to let the kids rule the house.

Z said...

beamish....I think a small part of stopping "whoopin's" has degraded parenting to where the kids rule, but I think it's something more.
I know divorced parents seem to spoil children (Some do, I'm generalizing) I suppose that's a part of it. But it's just AWFUL these days.

Leticia: You have such a good viewpoint; thanks. I'll bet your kids are terrific. My advice to young parents is always "You must never spoil your child because you can never make it up to him"

Also, "Nobody's going to find your children as cute as YOU DO" teacher, no boss... it's a terrible disservice to society to raise egocentric people.

Pris, thanks so much; I knew you'd have excellent advice, having raised your children and helped so much with your said "They knew that was the end of it. Anyone who actually argues with a small child, is giving that child power over the parent."

Boy, I wish I had a dollar for every "BECAUSE I SAID SO" like you and JOE said!

By the way, everybody, that adorable Shelty which is Pris's avatar passed away a few days ago, and I know you'd want to give Pris your condolences......what a sweet dog...what a loss.

Major said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Major said...

Ms. Prisc...even Tony Soprano once declared..."it may be the 90's out there....but in here, it's still the 50's and it's not a democracy"!!!

Sorry to hear about your pet. They can be and are full fledged family members and are hard to lose.

Take a look at my who wouldn't miss that face!!?

Anonymous said... condolences.

For many, many years we never had a pet. I'm highly allergic to cats and well....just don't like the damn things.

Dogs were OK...but we never went out of our way to have one. I was concerned about the dog crapping all over or chewing up the furniture! Besides...I had too many occasions where people who had a dog....didn't realize that some people don't like to have a dog licking their ankles or hovering around the dinner table.

But....we got our dog "Dodge" from a rescue operation after Katrina. My daughter promoted the adoption.

He's a cool dog and I know that I'd miss the hell out of him if we had to part.

So...I think I understand how you feel.

Pris said...

Z, how nice of you to mention our dear old boy. Thank you. He was the best dog. We can still feel him in the house, and yet there is a void, as well.

Major, thank you. Yes our pets are part of our families aren't they? So loyal and true. Very hard to lose. Of course you'd miss that face!

Imp, thank you too. He never chewed up furniture, or licked people's ankles, he did however lie at Mr. Pris's feet during dinner, waiting for a treat. I know you understand, and we miss him very much.

Always On Watch said...

When did kids start to RULE and parents lost their control and how did it happen?

I noticed it in the early 1990s. At that time, I was teaching in a private Christian school, and I started noticing how some of the children actually intimidated their parents.

How did it happen? When children and their parents bought into the idea of "child-centered education." The term has been around for a long time, but until the last 20 years or so, most parents didn't buy into the idea.

BTW, I can't imagine any of my homeschool parents hearing any of their children utter such things.

Z said...

AOW..."Child Centered Education"...
I don't know what you mean...I thought all education is centered around the child.........??

Pris, I love his picture, what a really beautiful dog, too!