Wednesday, June 29, 2011

TAXES........explained

This kind of goes with Silverfiddle's excellent post today HERE............
good one, huh?
z

27 comments:

soapster said...

Taxes equal forced theft; violence really. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Damien said...

I live in Britain (Gibraltar actually). You guys in the US actually pay a third of what we do.

Unfair taxes is condemnable but you cannot call taxation theft as that is how your government gets funds to do the jobs that I am sure you demand and criticize when not done properly.

D Charles
Gibraltar

cube said...

You can only squeeze so much from a turnip before no more juice can be squeezed from it. Taxpayers = turnips in this comment.

Z said...

oh boy...let the games begin :-)

Mustang said...

Everyone complains about taxes; we should all be worried if it were otherwise.

Our Constitution protects us FROM government, so it is understandable that someone from Europe might not understand our point of view.

We Americans want less government, not more. We want the government's activities to remain within constitutional limitations, and if government would do that, then we would have to pay less in taxes. And we wouldn't be up to our arm pits in debt.

The cartoon is EXCELLENT.

Damien said...

I assume you are all talking about "unfair taxing" because if I take the words literally, you do not want to pay taxes at all and thus I assume you do not want the government (whatever size) to actually have funds to do nice things like build roads, schools and hospitals or run a military.....

Unfair taxes is by its meaning unfair and anyone would be up in arms over such an issue. I am for small government as well and consider myself a perfect example of a paleoconservative. Having said that, government must work and I support necessary taxation as an obvious responsibility of any citizen in any country.

Now having said all of that, I made a comment in my first para - you in the US actually pay a third of what we in Europe does and thus to respond to the example given by "cube" - you must have a pretty darn small turnip over there......

Cheers

D Charles QC
Barrister
Gibraltar

Speedy G said...

that I am sure you demand and criticize when not done properly.

Actually, we're demanding that they STOP doing everything that they're not authorized to do under the US Constitution.

Speedy G said...

I assume you do not want the government (whatever size) to actually have funds to do nice things like build roads, schools and hospitals or run a military....

Interstate roads and the military are fine. Building local roads, schools and hospitals are NOT federal responsibilities. That's why we have governors and states.

Elmers Brother said...

Unfair taxes is a relative term you English dolt

Elmers Brother said...

And nearly 47% of our population pays no income taxes at all. And millions of those are on the gubmint dole.

Elmers Brother said...

No one here is suggesting we don't want roads or defense. The problem is our gubmint wastes $200-300 billion in duplicate programs with virtually no oversight and pays for s*it like the effect of drugs on menstruating monkeys.

beamish said...

Now having said all of that, I made a comment in my first para - you in the US actually pay a third of what we in Europe does and thus to respond to the example given by "cube" - you must have a pretty darn small turnip over there......

You're not reeeeeeally holding up European nations with higher top marginal tax rates (Portugal, Spain, Italy, GREECE...) as national economic models to emulate, are you?

Z said...

"You're not reeeeeeally holding up European nations with higher top marginal tax rates (Portugal, Spain, Italy, GREECE...) as national economic models to emulate, are you?"

slam dunk

Chuck said...

That is great

beamish said...

To Damian's credit, I think he was lamenting the fact that Europeans pay more in taxes yet can't seem to figure out why European roads don't lead to jobs for anyone other than road-builders and hospitals in the entirety of most European nations lack the technology and resources found in a single American hospital in a single American city.

Silverfiddle said...

Z: Thanks for the bump!

Z said...

Silverfiddle, you are so welcome.

Damien said...

Elmers Brother, when people post one liners like "taxes equal forced theft" ther term is not so "relative" but rather questionle which makes the "dolt" term rather mute, don't you think?

Then when another responds and says that they have no problem with defence and interstates but if we take them for their word then they assume that State Governments produce local roads, schools and hospitals from magic, when that is also a tax. For someone who does not mind read, it still sounds all like wishful thinking about taxes and nobody is really commenting that they are being taxed over and beyond reasonable.

For those, who then do so, I will argue that perhaps you do pay too much tax for what is really reasonable but then again you pay one almost one third of what we do over here and in fact you pay less than in some developing countries.

Z, I am certainly not holding up what is done here in Europe because as we see, the single currency was created without really creating the basis behind a single economy and thus we have the grand failures of Spain, Portugal and especially Greece - which has more to do with greed from their politicians than regional economics.

Then again, Germans pay huge taxes and gain the benefits from it and the standards of living and economics simply walks over the United States.

A last comment to Beamish. It is rather a wasteful excercise to play the game of comparisons in everything and in that waste to score points as it flops. Road building is not major expense like in the United States, we built our roads already. I would go to a quality European hospital over an overpriced insurance-abused hospital in the US any day and I noticed you did not mention schools and universities which is wise because you may have many of the best, but the net result to the American people puts you between 16th and 25th on the world scale.

My point is whining about taxes only works when backed up with the net result you get that only one here has actually given an example.

Naughty Naughty Bad Wing Nut said...

Read my lips, NO, more taxes.

badwolf79 said...

Taxation is an issue with two sides, a knife that cuts in more than one way. It should never be accepted without thorough examination and constant, diligent oversight.

There are the necessary expenditures for improvements and maintenance of the national infrastructure, for which a reasonable tax would not be a problem for most citizens.

Then there is taxation used to punish and manipulate a stupid population, taxation to fund 'social change', taxation to fund political payoffs for a corrupt and venal ruling class of elites, and finally taxation that is outright theft. I believe that side of the issue is and should always be a problem for all citizens.

When people abdicate responsibility for themselves, for their families, for their community, this becomes a problem. Their motto becomes 'Let government take care of that'. And we always seem to have those who will gladly pick our pockets in the interest of helping others.

Though the opinions of people from other countries may have merit, and may be, perhaps should be duly considered, they remain the words of a relatively uninformed and certainly uninvolved source. There is no 'One World' except in the mind and dreams of those who would be despots. If you disagree, tell me who would create a world government unless he is to be one of those wolves who feed on the sheep who allow it to become reality?

Z said...

testing

Elmers Brother said...

Dolt term absolutely appropos here.

Z said...

Hello, Damien, and thanks....

you mention Germany and I was married to a German and lived in Munich for many months at a time.
Yes, they have a good lifestyle and they had amazing retirement benefits; they DON'T anymore. They have been bled dry by immigration, of course; they pay HUGE amounts to immigrants (legal and illegal)and their unemployment benefits are ludicrous and Germans are beginning to see that now.

Schroeder, back then, was BEGGING Germans to buy health insurance, too...but our media has never mentioned that here, particularly in the wake of their promotion of the Obama health care idiocy.
Germans pay ridiculous amounts of money in subsidies they see no benefit for, too, and are getting quite tired of it, believe me...

The EUro was a huge mistake and my dear husband favored it; it's about the only time he was wrong about something like this and I was very right.

beamish said...

A last comment to Beamish. It is rather a wasteful excercise to play the game of comparisons in everything and in that waste to score points as it flops.

Not that comparing European taxes rates to American tax rates is a "wasteful exercise," right?

Do make up your mind. I'll wait.

Road building is not major expense like in the United States, we built our roads already.

Yet still collect taxes for them?

I would go to a quality European hospital over an overpriced insurance-abused hospital in the US any day

So would I, but even where you live, the long drive to a "quality European hospital" is going to take a while over those roads you keep paying for.

and I noticed you did not mention schools and universities which is wise because you may have many of the best, but the net result to the American people puts you between 16th and 25th on the world scale.

The world scale of what? Wasteful exercises in comparison?

Why should I be impressed your elites went back to Europe after they graduated school in America?

Damien said...

I return back to my point that taxation itself is not a bad thing, it is excessive taxation that is important.

As for comments about Europe, money is spent on roads to keep them to standard and it is a lower cost than in the US because of distances (ie longer distances need more maintenance). I was reading for example that in Australia, 76 per cent of State budgets is only on road upkeep.

Most Europeans accept higher taxation because it gives the higher standards of living. The fiscal crisis here has nothing to do with taxes, it has to do simply with some countries spending more than they make and that can be considered corruption.

The Euro for my part is only a mistake because single currency requires single economy and not 8 then 12 then 22 different ones.

As for hospitals and schools, our hospitals are in general way better than in the US, that is a simple fact, you have perhaps the best, but in numbers you are at the level far lower than in the US. Your schooling system is worse, with the best colleges but it is not your students who benefit.

This is not bragging, it is a simple fact. You have resources and access to many things that we dream of and frankly speaking - and getting back to the subject, you have lower taxes that many would love to have.

A last comment for Z. The immigration problem there is exagerated, Germans not only accept but realise that they need immigrant labour. Ultra nationalists are not supported in Germany like currently in The Netherlands, yes neo-Nazis exist, but as a nuisance. The standard of living in Germany is something that many would dream of and though there are issues in that country based on habits and style, the quality there should not be ignored.

Cheers

Thersites said...

The Euro for my part is only a mistake because single currency requires single economy and not 8 then 12 then 22 different ones.

Sounds like you need to throw out your local governments (but not their taxes) and give all their jobs and a bunch of extra tax $ to your EU-level bureaucrats (following your own advice about not letting the locals decide anything). And after that, you can start paying America back for the last 60 years of peace in Europe (10% of GDP per year of peace would make a good "start"), as we're the ones that kept the Russians from stepping on your necks... and then perhaps you'll be in a position to throw over your newly empowered EU overlords for UN ones, and pay taxes directly to them, but keeping all the ex-EU bureaucrats collecting on their generous pension benefits.

After all who needs a local economy when you can have a world single-payer/ single-tax-collector government?

Thersites said...

, it is excessive taxation that is important.

There can be no "excess" for something for which their is no limit or standard set (unlimited government). And unlike your government, our Constitution sets those limits for our government. THAT is why we don't pish-posh federal government over-reach like the inbred English.