Thursday, January 28, 2010

HOWARD ZINN has died

I will resist the urge to say what I'd like here. The man is dead. . May he rest in peace. And may America recover. Somehow.
z

28 comments:

Joe said...

Now he knows and must face The Truth.

Anonymous said...

Wow. Thank goodness there's no shortage of people who despise their own country, eh?

Linda said...

I didn't know anything about him until I pulled him up on Google. It was on the morning show (ABC) and they were very sad.

cube said...

Obama's kind of historian.

FrogBurger said...

Didn't know him and don't have much information. But the guy still helped liberating Europe. So he's got my gratitude.

Z said...

Anonymous, thanks largely to Zinn, yes.

I'm sure ABC was extremely sad, LInda.
Cube..perfectly said..
joe, one shudders

FrogBurger...yes, he was a soldier and he deserves all our respect for that.

Anonymous said...

We can be grateful to men who served in uniform, but that does not give them a pass for subsequent abhorrent behaviors. Remember that Timothy McVey was a soldier whose later behavior is beyond forgivable.

Zinn had the right to express his opinion —but let us not confuse opinion with fact, shall we? Zinn’s revisionist history served him and his liberal following quite well. The problem is that three generations of Americans came out of school thinking Zinn was telling them the truth. He wasn’t. He was telling them his opinion about history, and he was giving more weight to the bad and insufficient weight to the good things about America. Shall we be happy so many Americans do not know the difference? History has but one purpose: if we attach liberal bias to the facts, we cannot learn the proper lessons. We cannot change the past; we can build a better country, but we cannot do that by poisoning young minds against their country.

Semper Fi

Mustang

JINGOIST said...

Good.

beamish said...

Maaaaaaat Damon.

[Sorry, had to be done]

Z said...

Beamish..Matt Damon??

Anonymous said...

I cannot pretend not to regard this as good news.

Zinn was an evil man and one of "that crowd" who has meant to destroy Liberty, Christianity and Capitalism for well over a century.

Honesty is not always pretty, but sooner or later we must face the Truth or lost every last shred of intellectual and moral integrity we might still possess.

I shall not mourn Zinn's passing anymore than I mourn the deaths of Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Hitler, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Alger Hiss or Peter Jennings.

Yes. I said Peter Jennings.

~ FreeThinke

Deborah on the Bayside said...

Rarely has length of life had such a devastating influence. FB, you may not know it, but this is a man who said, when asked if the world would be a better or worse place if the United States had never existed, answered "BETTER."

This is not a mis-quote and it's fully consistent the context of the whole, lengthy interview. I heard it with my own ears.

beamish said...

Z,

You need to see Team America: World Police.

;)

beamish said...

Matt Damon's character in "Good Will Hunting" praised Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" and in real life hasn't stopped playing that character pimping Howard Zinn like he's freakin' Herodotus or something. Last I heard he was working on a project to bring "A People's History" to film, or at least documentary form for the classroom.

Yes, he's worse than Howard Zinn. He's an idiot that falls for Howard Zinn's revisionist pseudo-history.

He is aptly parodied in Team America: World Police as a brain dead fool. His only lines are his name, spoken with a mock retarded voice.

"Matt Damon. Maaaattt Damon."

If you do watch Team America: World Police, the humor and language is on the raunchy side, but the anti-leftist satire is fierce. It was made by the same guys that created and write South Park.

Z said...

Beamish, I saw ONE Team America that shocked even this old hardened "nothing shocks ME" girl and that was enough :-) You probably know which one. OY, I can't even make an allusion to it so "only YOU know" without cringing!

Misfit410 said...

I was told Matt Damon actually lived next to Zinn growing up, and that most believe Zinn actually wrote Good Will Hunting...

Anyways I'll say it for you Z, good riddance to old rubbish.

Ducky's here said...

I doubt anyone posting here actually read "A People's History of the United States".
I wonder what the objection is? A belief that history should be told from the point of view of the individual and is actually "made" by the individual and not the great historical actors?

Or possibly it was his activity in the civil rights movement that most bothers you.

Fine historian. Damn, J. D. Salinger too. Always saw Holden as just a guy with a sever depression so it always tempered the alienation angle.

"I have a feeling that you're riding for some kind of a terrible, terrible fall. But I don't honestly know what kind.... It may be the kind where, at the age of thirty, you sit in some bar hating everybody who comes in looking as if he might have played football in college. Then again, you may pick up just enough education to hate people who say, 'It's a secret between he and I.' Or you may end up in some business office, throwing paper clips at the nearest stenographer. I just don't know."

beamish said...
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beamish said...

Funny, Ducky, that you hate Republicans despite their involvement in the civil rights movement over a 100 years before your fellow Democrats considered it safe to drink from the same water fountains as black people.

Yes, I've read "A People's History." It didn't, as "Good Will Hunting" ejaculated it would, "knock me on my ass."

It's garbage attempting to make serious the Marxist kneeslapper of "the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." History presents a chronology. Zinn presents a delusional ideological rant.

You're going to read a Stephen Ambrose or a Will Durant and tell me Howard Zinn is a "fine historian?"

This makes you worse than Howard Zinn. You're an idiot that falls for Howard Zinn.

Ducky's here said...

Well Beamish, history is not a clean walk of noble people who hold on high a cross to inspire (or persecute) and a torch to light (or burn) anyone who looks. A mature understanding of the history of any nation requires a sober understanding the beauty and the ugliness of its past.

Demanding that we see only the good(which you don't see as indoctrination or a rant, apparently) without taking responsibility for the bad is childish and immature. Howard Zinn gave his voice to teaching the part of out history which in our immaturity we try to sweep under the historical carpet of feel good stories.

Ducky's here said...

Nice eulogy on "Democracy Now" today:

NAOMI KLEIN: I don’t think that would have bothered Howard Zinn at all. He never was surprised when power protected itself. And he really was a people’s historian, so he didn’t look to the elites for validation.

I’m just so happy that Anthony and the incredible team from People Speak gave Howard this incredible gift at the end of his life. I was at Lincoln Center at the premiere of People Speak and was there when just the mention of Howard’s name led thousands of people to leap to their feet and give him the standing ovation that he deserved. So I don’t think he needed the New York Times. I don’t think he needed the official historians. He was everybody’s favorite teacher, the teacher that changed your life, but he was that for millions and millions of people. And so, you know, that’s what happened. We just lost our favorite teacher.

But the thing about Howard is that the history that he taught was not just about losing the official illusions about nationalism, about the heroic figures. It was about telling people to believe in themselves and their power to change the world. So, like any wonderful teacher, he left all of these lessons behind. And I think we should all just resolve to be a little bit more like Howard today.

Z said...

Ducky, your idiotic leftwing teachers unions learned at Zinn's feet...they're teaching our young kids so much wrong about America (something NO OTHER COUNTRY DOES, by the way....oh, sorry, they teach wrong about America they get from our leftwinger nonsense but they don't teach what's wrong with THEIR COUNTRIES) that we'll never recover.

If our kids had a solid base of patriotism and love of country, based on all the great men in our history and what America's accomplished, then they can get Zinn's work thrown at them and digest it for what it's worth...

"Illusions of nationalism"...how ridiculous. How disgusting. We ARE a nation, a once proud nation...until the leftwingers started despising her.
A country can't stand strong with leaders slamming her, with kids learning more to hate than love her, to even consider freezing defense spending, to constantly ridicule.....giving ammunition to those like Chavez and Iran to just PILE IT ON, saying things they'd never dreamed of saying, let alone even thought of themselves, without OUR LEFT. "Sure, THEY hate themselves...WE DO, TOO"
Congratulations

beamish said...
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beamish said...

Well Beamish, history is not a clean walk of noble people who hold on high a cross to inspire (or persecute) and a torch to light (or burn) anyone who looks. A mature understanding of the history of any nation requires a sober understanding the beauty and the ugliness of its past.

And Zinn fails this test when he fictionalizes and dramatizes the unrecorded thinking of people that lived and died centuries before he was born. He's not even speculating what actually was thought and said by actual participants in historical events, he's puppeteering with their corpses.

Howard Zinn is to history what Immanuel Velikovsky is to astrophysics. His eulogy was written before he died, by actual forensic historians who look at his work with highly bemused scoffing.

Demanding that we see only the good(which you don't see as indoctrination or a rant, apparently) without taking responsibility for the bad is childish and immature. Howard Zinn gave his voice to teaching the part of out history which in our immaturity we try to sweep under the historical carpet of feel good stories.

I take the good with the bad. Anyone reading Ambrose and Durant and coming away with a "gee aren't we holy" outlook is just as devoid of reading comprehension skills as your typical leftist.

Zinn didn't write history. He wrote fiction.

Ducky's here said...

I'm surprised you take to Durant, Beamish. He held religion as a primary actor in the downfall of cultures.

Ducky's here said...

Zinn had the right to express his opinion —but let us not confuse opinion with fact, shall we?

---------------------

I always get a charge out of these right wingers who:

1. Know all the facts.

2. Find a way to formulate a theory of history that is free from opinion.

beamish said...

I'm surprised you take to Durant, Beamish. He held religion as a primary actor in the downfall of cultures.

Was he wrong?

Was the mighty Ancient Greek Empire actually lucky to have surveyed their political course better from what their ergot poisoned "oracles" divined from the entrails of dead animals than other cultures they competed with?

You really ought to discard the leftist binary absolutist analysis and apprehend the complexity.

No, there's no irony in that I'm telling a leftist to diversify his mind.

Anonymous said...

How I wish Ella Fitzgerald were to sing us a rousing chorus of Goody Goody!

Hurray and Hallelujah!
You had it comin' to ya!


~ FreeThinke

Poor taste on my part? Not when applied to man whose entire life was an exercise in defaming the character of my country. it was never HIS country. He just INFESTED it.