Sunday, January 31, 2010

A very nice Muslim who might have to kill his friend?

I just got this email this evening.........from a good friend who lives in Nevada....I've taken out the daughter's name for obvious reasons. What do we do about information like this? The father of this young woman is someone my parents have known for sixty years, he's someone whom I trust implicitly and I've known him all my life. This is the truth:


So, do we just wait for this to happen? Is this a wonderful guy who actually reads the Koran and, though he likes my friend's daughter, knows that the truth of islam is what many of us fear it to be? Most of my readers know I'm NOT of the mind of some of you, that "All Muslims are bad and want us dead!" but this kind of thinking is something we need to be aware of. Be aware for WHAT, I don't know because what can we DO? ...As you all know, Muslims might complain that they're under attack in America, but WE are the ones afraid of voicing our fears and wishing that Muslims would speak out AGAINST the kind of thinking above, that instigated in the Koran, and we are the ones who may only act in response because anything else would be considered "politically incorrect"..... (and even a response is given to CAIR and we're sued or they whine that Americans are so unkind, etc etc.)
What are your thoughts? Surely all muslims don't think like this guy..........But, this stunned me and I thought I'd share it with you. (Imagine how it stunned my friend's daughter?) I don't want this to turn into a muslim-hating comments section, I just wonder if some of you would like to chime in on how many Muslims do you actually think are thinking like this and what do we DO? What are they teaching in the mosques in our neighborhoods? And, by the way, the 'tolerant secularists' will fight horribly regarding this post...."you're generalizing", etc etc...But, when one Christian kills an abortion doctor, they're the first to discredit Christians..........
So, I'm thinking maybe we need to pay more attention to ONE BAD APPLE all the way around, huh?


beamish said...

It's hard for me to comment on this given my own dilemma of my little sister converting to Islam and moving to the Middle East.

Theological discussions with her go absolutely no where.

Muslims take insults to their faith EXTREMELY seriously, so that even modest criticism is taken as grievous insult.

You can't reason with that level of superstition and self-justification.

Z said...

well, Beamish, then you consider what a grievous insult this even veiled threat is but we can't respond because they "take insults to their faith extremely seriously.."'s a really tough dilemma. I take threats to someone's life pretty seriously, too, as I know you do.

I can't imagine your sister feels this way but we all have to wonder just how deeply muslims really DO think this, that their faith is IT and it's killing infidels which honors Allah. Not good.

Anonymous said...

Mark my words is not muslims who are under attack here in is WE WHO ARE UNDER ATTACK! Think...if it's "only" 10% of them that believe this....we'll have to face a force of 150,000,000 of them!

Anonymous said...

Z, I think more muslims believe that way than we would like to think.

Your friend's daughter was really told if he had to choose between what he's taught and an infidel's life, even someone he calls a friend, he would choose what he's taught, and that is it's alright to lie to, and kill infidels.

If a muslim father is capable of honor killing his own daughters, I would think an infidel's daughter isn't worth a plug nickel.

I'll never forget about the Iraqi family who nursed an insurgent back to health after he was badly wounded. When it was time for him to leave, he killed that family before he left. Why? They knew too much. They saved his life and it didn't matter.

Beamish, I know how you must worry. May God keep your sister safe.


Jan said...

Z..I wonder how many remarks like that were made by the guy who slaughtered the 'infidels' at Ft.Hood? And how many times they were overlooked, or ignored, because of political correctness?

No person can really know the mind and heart of another person, and Jesus said that we are not to judge, however the Bible speaks of knowing someone by their fruit, so it must be okay to judge that.

It, also, says that out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

It is a frightening, and confusing time, in which we live.

Jan said...

I wanted to say, too, that my heart goes out to concerned he must be for his little sister.

Greywolfe said...

My heart goes out to beamish in this as well. But we as a people need to look and put this whole fight into perspective.

Just because we have trouble keeping our eye on the ball doesn't mean that every culture suffers from ADD like ours. This is not a new fight. Most people say that this fight with the west goes back to the 70's.

That is a very near sighted view. As is the political correct view we've forced ourselves to take concerning Islam.

The fact of the matter is, the United States Marine Corp was created to combat the Islamic Pirates that were terrorizing our shipping. The President who formed them? Thomas Jefferson. The fight is that old and older.

Ask french historians about their wars with the Turkish invasions because of Muhammad's teaching. The fact of the matter is, and Beamish has probably done enough homework to verify this, this war is going to continue because of the teachings of Muhammad (later teachings that supersede earlier more peaceful teachings)require it and always have.

I read a copy of the Koran sometime back that had been put into cronological order(the Koran as we see it produced is put together in order of size of verse to be deliberately confusing to those of western culture)and all of the peaceful teachings were very early in Muhammad's career as a prophet. The later teachings are very militant and because the Muslims believe that the later teachings supercede the earlier, there will always be those that will follow the militant version.

It will always be a war that we will never finish until all that support the militant verses have assumed room temperature. Or until we do.

Z said...

Check this out:
Cause of the Crusades -
The reason and cause of the crusades was a war between Christians and Moslems which centered around the city of Jerusalem and the Holy places of Palestine. The City of Jerusalem held a Holy significance to the Christian religion. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem commemorated the hill of crucifixion and the tomb of Christ's burial. Pilgrims throughout the Middle Ages made sacred pilgrimages to the Holy city of Jerusalem and the church. Although the city of Jerusalem was held by the Saracens the Christian pilgrims had been granted safe passage to visit the Holy city. In 1065 Jerusalem was taken by the Turks, who came from the kingdom of ancient Persia. 3000 Christians were massacred and the remaining Christians were treated so badly that throughout Christendom people were stirred to fight in crusades. These actions aroused a storm of indignation throughout Europe and awakened the desire to rescue the Holy Land from the grasp of the "infidel."

Z: why is it that people blame Christians for the Crusades? I always hear it as if it's an indictment of the mean ol' Christians who vanquished the poor ol' muslims but it isn't the case. Remember the leftwing secularists when Iraq's war started and they're screaming "WE CAN'T BE REGARDED AS CRUSADERS AGAIN"...WHAT?

Why is it WE in the West (Judeo Christian types) are the bad guys all the time? Man, Palestine blows up a busload of Jewish children and Israel does retribution and it's Israel's fault. Muslims blow 3000 Americans apart and we end up spending the last 8 1/2 years apologizing to muslims......
Like I've often said "What's it take to get RESPECT in America?....just kill 3000 innocent Americans"

It was only after 9/11 that muslim cab drivers could turn away fares...didn't have to cut pork in a butcher shop.... could get schools to pay for foot washing basins in university bathrooms, etc etc. WHY after 9/11???

Man, if we could just get thousands of Muslims marching against the radicals amongst them around the world and turning militant imams in and closing radicalized mosques, etc etc....wouldn't you all feel somewhat BETTER?
How about muslims saying "you know, it's a pain in the patoot, but I'm getting on this plane here, I'm obviously an Arab of the Muslim faith and I don't mind anybody profiling me because I don't want a radical nut on the plane blowing us all up and if it makes you feel better to check me, GO FOR IT"
No, instead they run to CAIR which gets our media to talk it up as if WE'RE the bad guys for profiling.

Remember the FLYING IMAMS case? the worst thing that happened was when they withdrew their threatened lawsuits against the Americans who were scared enough by their actions to complain. OH, man, if only Americans had seen that case on television; we'd have seen what's happening and got with the program.
As it is, they were very cunning and withdrew the case; very smart.

I KNOW there are Muslims who do NOT want you or me dead...I know that. I absolutely know that. They need to come out ... it's not up to US to prove WE don't mean them harm

beamish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
beamish said...


Thanks. As I told my sister, I don't care if she worships a meteorite in Mecca. She can do that, safely, from American soil. My concern is largely for her being somewhere even marginally ruled by Sharia jurisprudence, where as a woman her word doesn't means squat even if she's a Muslim.


I asked my sister to explain to me the Islamic justification for the Tripolitan piracy in the Barbary Wars, and even provided her with the recorded words of the ambassador of the Tripolitan States who explained to Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin that they were attacking American ships BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT MUSLIMS. Of course, she had no answer. I'm hoping it lodged in her mind, at least.

Gramma 2 Many said...

Have to say the comments are as thought provoking as the post. We do tend to be ADD about things. It is good to be reminded of the history of the Muslim's war against anyone who does not believe as they do.
As I was reading your post I was thinking as Anonymous was that we were the ones who were attacked on our own soil.
If you are interested, Another Black Conservative has a very interesting post about a threat Ahmadinejad has made concerning February 11. I think it is time we were all super vigilant. Even though I live in a very small town, away from the main hub of activity, I know I and my family are not safe.

Linda said...

As has been said..."Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims."

The Muslim right against the Jews and the Christians can go back as far as Abraham and his son, Ishmael, and Isaac. It won't be finished until our Lord returns.

We have a few Muslims in our community, and I'm not fearful of them, but they are getting into every part of America. We need to be ever vigilant!

Chuck said...

Quite frankly I think the incident should be reported to the police as a threat.

I can say that as a father I would not have taken a threat to my daughter very well.

And I do view this as a threat to her life.

As far as Islam, I will not go into a tirade but I have very little use for the relgion as a whole.

While I have worked with Muslims and most have seemed okay, I do not know what is in their heart and I do not know what they would be like if they were not in a community of very predominantly Catholic and Protestant people. I live in a fairly conservative and very much Christian area.

I keep going back to the notion of moderate Muslims. What is this? The man in the story appears to be a fairly well liked and stable person (sounds like a perfect exaple of what I was talking about above) but he espouses what would be seen as a hard line view. Is he a moderate or an extremist? Is there a difference when you really get down to it?

I think the most telling things is that while there has been some vocal condemnation of extremism, there is not really any serious attempt to eradicate the practice by Muslims. These extremists supposedly high-jacked their "peaceful" religion yet they are not making any attempt to take it back. Why is this?

Anonymous said...

The holy book of Islam, The Koran, contains the rules by which those who belong to the faith are expected to abide. There are many verses containing violent exhortations against those who are not of that faith. So to me it seems logical that those who want to be considered to be "good Muslims" would want to abide by the dogma of the religion. If it says that Christians and Jews are evil enemies, then a "good Muslim" would agree with that to remain in good standing with those who belong to that religion.

I do agree, Z, that there are certain individuals in the religion who do not accept all that is said in the Koran in terms of its violence and hatred against all those who are not of that faith — but strictly speaking they would be considered apostates to those that adhere strictly to the Koran in its entirety as it is reputed to be the final word of God spoken to their prophet Mohammad. When or if the day arrives in which Islam is dominant is it realistic to expect mercy or fairness to be meted out to those that their holy book says are enemies or apostates? Count me doubtful on that ...

Isn't it always better to seek the answers to the burning questions directly from those that speak for the religion itself? Here's a quotation from the radical religious leader of the Iranian Revolution, that should be kept in mind at all times since it is individuals of this type who know the Koran better than many of the faithful who are illiterate in great numbers and new recruits to the religion who have been told that Islam means "peace" when it really means "submission".


“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says, kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! ...Whatever good there is, exists thanks to the sword, and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient, except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! ...Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”—Ayatollah Khomeini

Ducky's here said...

So dime him out to protective services.

shoprat said...

I agree with Chuck, that a death threat should be reported to the police. Don't try the FBI because they don't protect Americans anymore.

Brooke said...

That was a threat. The guy is a walking bomb that just hasn't exploded yet.

Miss T.C. Shore said...

Frankly, I think it is the MAJORITY of muslims that think this way. I know a few muslims, and they are not what you would consider extremists in any sense. But knowing what their beliefs are and how they think, I suspect that the numbers are actually turned around from what you've been hearing. It's more like 90% who would be willing to kill other Americans, given the right circumstance and opportunity for their religion and 10% who think that the "kill the infidels" part of the Koran is only figurative language.

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Beamish hit it on the head. Unless you are in it and have been raised with it, you cannot understand it. You can take the daughter away, you can place her elsewhere, but if the male of the family, the father, perceives that there has been an insult to the family or to HIS name by a female, then she is in jeopardy. The more we as Western Civilizations look away, the more this will OCCUR on WC soil. It's already occurred numerous times in the US.

When will be get it through our heads that everyone does not THINK and process the world as we do? Religion, one's perceived honor, one's family name, can we worth killing and dying for.

Would all Muslims be like this? No. But Muslims lack the self policing ability or any central repository of control or control figure. Therefore, how do we judge Islam? I believe it's very fair to say, as I write: "Islam IS as Islam DOES."


Ducky's here said...

... of course there is the distinct possibility he was being sarcastic.

Bad tase maybe, but not lethal.

Z said...

Ducky, Two good friends sitting around talking ... one hears this and, I'm pretty sure that if she knew him well enough to discuss religion with him she'd know if he was being sarcastic.
Probably, in any normal situation of humor, he might say "Kidding, of course!" BIG SMILE. But, no.

Pris, my mother was raised in Cairo; she knows better the mind of muslims than our own intel seems to. PRIDE is IT with them...PRIDE PRIDE PRIDE. And Allah. And, anybody who doesn't follow THEIR 'faith' is insulting them and their Allah. It's all bartering, bockshish and one upmanship..

A German friend of ours just told me he was there and saw mosques rising in lovely small villages on the Rhine, to only name one area he mentioned, where there are almost, or NO, muslims.........Who do we kid ourselves they're building these mosques FOR?
Wait for the EU to accept Turkey....the infrastructure's all there already throughout Europe for the THRONGS of muslims who will be teeming across the borders into erstwhile beautiful countries of lederhosen, squeaky clean sidewalks and geraniums. Germany's already suffered greatly from immigration (you used to be able to leave a bike by your door and it stayed there and now you MUST lock everything up...And, in France, it was always so safe until lately when people even in the suburbs are being held up from the time they leave their car to their front's very commonplace now.)

No...we're all in very big trouble and we're ignoring it. Because, what can you DO? If you say anything, you're the bad guy; never let's deceive ourselves that CAIR and other muslim groups are not very very very well aware of political correctness and the great cover it gives and in Europe.

JINGOIST said...

WOW beamish I didn't even know that man. My codolences. You also wrote:
"Muslims take insults to their faith EXTREMELY seriously, so that even modest criticism is taken as grievous insult."

They are thin-skinned because they know they are skating on incredibly thin ice! Just look at the nature and character of the man who founded Islam. Ole MO was no hero.

Good post Z. Now allow me to go purge. :-)

Faith said...

Bunch of good comments here.

When PC reigns and especially when our leaders (Bush for starters) call Islam a "religion of peace" they've set us up for something bloody. We're always bending over backwards to avoid sounding like we're at war with Islam, but islam is at war with us whether we want to acknowledge it or not, as some comments here recognize. If Islam itself is not denounced from the top it's going to continue to grow more or less quietly until there are enough numbers of them to bring about the world government for Allah they are always ultimately aiming for. Europe is just about there already.

They can be quite nice up until the opportunity has come. They ARE nice. This isn't about MUSLIMS, about PEOPLE, it's about the RELIGION. Some Muslims don't believe the whole fundamentalist version of their religion, but as has been said here, they are regarded as apostates, and when Islam has power they will either become true believers or be killed themselves. It's part of the religion to adapt to foreign circumstances until opportunity comes.

This experience of your friend's daughter ought to be a wake up call. Arresting him for making a threat is probably a very good idea.

beamish said...

Well, I didn't want to take away from the thrust of Z's post relating my own family "dirty laundry" as it were.

But you look at Islam as an alien to it and say to yourself "how could anyone fall for this inane babbling if they weren't coerced to it at gunpoint" and then one of your own becomes a willing convert to it and you're just at a loss for words.

Makes you appreciate the anguish about his duty Arjuna felt in his chariot looking out across the battlefield at an enemy army built from his own family in the Bhagavad Gita, or even families divided by the American Civil War.

My sister has never said anything to me about what "jihad" entails, or that she "might have to kill me" or anything like that. But, I know that her chosen religion entails that sentiment.

I appreciate the religions of other peoples and cultures. Comparative theology has always fascinated me.

But family or not, a threat is a threat, and we're not exactly living on a planet with a history of pacifist Muslims acting only in self-defense.

EDGE said...

Sounds like September 10th, 2001...the threat is real but it'll go away.


Ducky's here said...

Well, look at it this way, Faith. If they come to power it's because you did something really bad.

Z said...

great comments, thanks so much.

You know, one really wonders if this guy SHOULD be spoken to be a policeman....maybe if somebody'd talked to the Ft Hood killer......
Or if someone had spoken to the killer of Dr. Tiller........for that matter.

Edge...good point.

Beamish, I very seldom mind anybody going a bit off the track especially if my theme's still being addressed..thanks so much.
Your sister's situation is such a dilemma and something that prayer could help. I hope.

Ducky, no, I don't think the insane hate and treatment to infidels in the Koran has anything to do with anything ANY of US has done, but keep blaming US. You a member of CAIR?

Faith said...

Kind of, Ducky, but when I talk about judgment against a NATION I'm talking about the sins OF the nation itself, not individuals. Such as our national legal endorsement of abortion for instance. Bring down abortion among other things and Islam will retreat back to the Middle East. I can just about guarantee it. BUT I never argue for passivity, we should do all we can to fight them too, get this guy arrested or whatever. If we're really under judgment such efforts won't succeed very well but we can certainly try.